Major file loss crisis! iCloud & Dropbox snafu! Craziness!

[fbx1989]

Need some help with this. I've had Dropbox running on my Documents folder and Downloads folder and my Desktop using a symlink (MacDropAny) for several years.

Last year I connected the HD to iCloud and/or iCloud Drive to make a duplicate backup of my files.

Now I learn from a Dropbox email that the mere using of a symlink to copy a file to Dropbox causes iCloud to treat the copy as a delete and thus delete the file from iCloud! As astonishing as it seems.

I also learned that iCloud was a not exactly backing up my files, but was MOVING some files to iCloud (not anything I asked it to do) and when it did that, iCloud replaced the moved files on my machine with blank "placeholders" that Dropbox (and other backup software like Backblaze) replaced the actual content files in their copies of my files with these black placeholders that iCloud placed on my Mac HD.

The net result is that many files that iCloud "MOVED" (instead of copied) to the iCloud were then DELETED from iCloud on the thought that copying them to Dropbox was a deletion on my Mac HD.

I may not have this exactly correct, but the real effect of it in my case is that 600-800 files are missing from my Mac HD and also from iCloud AND Dropbox.

I know. Sounds freaking nuts. And yes, I do have some local backups from which I may be able to piece together the 600-800 files. Or some of them.

I can't believe I'm the only one this happened to so I'm looking for detail remedies and instructions on how to avoid this in future, specifically, how to eliminate entirely Apple's iCloud from my world.

Please give me a hand here. Point me to some sources of information, some reports of similar activities, anything that you think might help. I've got no so-called "genius" store in my area.

Thanks for your attention and help.

 

[elemenohme]

You may want to talk to the developer of MacDropAny - it sounds like his software was the source of your issues.

I would never rely on symbolic links for backup purposes. Always back up the actual file location.

 

[BrianBaughn]

I don't think anyone here can help recover files that have been deleted from a cloud-based syncing service. You are probably on the right track to slowly recover as many files as you can from your local backups. I will guess that a duplicate-finding application will be of some help in that endeavor.

Mixing cloud syncing services (using them on the same folder) is ill-advised and if you had done the research on that idea or come here to inquire before proceeding you likely wouldn't have even tried it.

 

[Weaselboy]

Need some help with this. I've had Dropbox running on my Documents folder and Downloads folder and my Desktop using a symlink (MacDropAny) for several years.

All MacDropAny does is make a symlink for you. You can just delete the app after you make the link and the symlink will still be there. I had my ~/Documents folder symlinked to Dropbox for years and never had a problem.

I think where you went wrong is turning on iCloud Drive and that caused this conflict with two sync services running off the same folder. You can leave iCloud on and just turn off iCloud Drive and I think you would be okay.

 

[monokakata]

It sounds to me as though the OP's trouble began with "Optimize Mac Storage," which is in the iCloud tab of Sys Prefs. When that's checked, you give up control over what's where -- a richly bad idea for most of us. This was much discussed back when it first appeared.

So, OP, minimally you should make sure that's unchecked, no matter what else you do.

 

[Fishrrman]

OP wrote:
"And yes, I do have some local backups from which I may be able to piece together the 600-800 files. Or some of them."

THIS is "the solution".
That is, DON'T place your faith in "the cloud".
If you do, the cloud may not be there when you need it.
Would you dispute that assertion right now?

KEEP LOCAL BACKUPS of EVERYTHING that's important to you.

I highly HIGHLY recommend CarbonCopyCloner for creating such backups (SuperDuper works, also).

A well-organized "hands on" backup can be invaluable.

 

[fisherking]

OP wrote:
"And yes, I do have some local backups from which I may be able to piece together the 600-800 files. Or some of them."

THIS is "the solution".
That is, DON'T place your faith in "the cloud".
If you do, the cloud may not be there when you need it.
Would you dispute that assertion right now?

KEEP LOCAL BACKUPS of EVERYTHING that's important to you.

I highly HIGHLY recommend CarbonCopyCloner for creating such backups (SuperDuper works, also).

A well-organized "hands on" backup can be invaluable.

no harm in using the 'cloud' and a physical drive; i backup (with CCC) at home, and also use crashplan. simple enough. seriously, if someone stole my mac AND my backup drive, then what? or if crashplan crashed? good to have important data backed up with both methods...

 

[fbx1989]

All MacDropAny does is make a symlink for you. You can just delete the app after you make the link and the symlink will still be there. I had my ~/Documents folder symlinked to Dropbox for years and never had a problem.

I think where you went wrong is turning on iCloud Drive and that caused this conflict with two sync services running off the same folder. You can leave iCloud on and just turn off iCloud Drive and I think you would be okay.

Thanks for this, Weasel. I have turned off the "OPTiMIZE" thing and iCloud Drive, but my real problem is finding the files that are missing. On my 2nd machine it seems many of the files are present on the HD AND on that Mac's iCloud. I can't figure out why that would be since both computers are linked to same Apple account. In fact, the 2nd machine is a clone of the first from about a month or two ago.

I had done some research but clearly not enough and had no idea of the thing Dropbox reported recently via email.

If you haven't seen the Dropbox email, here it is:

"We’re reaching out because we’ve detected one or more .iCloud placeholder files in your Dropbox. These placeholder files could lead to data loss if no action is taken, as the recent release of macOS Sierra has changed the way Dropbox is able to sync files in some circumstances.

To make sure all your files are safe, please follow these steps:

• Search for .iCloud files on Dropbox. Using the search bar on dropbox.com, type in .iCloud to see which files in your Dropbox are affected. When you’ve identified those files, you’ll need to recover the actual versions from iCloud (follow Apple’s instructions here).
  
• Update to the latest version of the Dropbox desktop client (version 11.4.22). To ensure Dropbox continues to sync properly, download the latest version of the desktop client.
  
• Manage warning notifications. You may see warning notifications from iCloud when you move files from an iCloud-synced folder into Dropbox. You can opt out of these notifications by following these steps.

Why is this happening?

The .iCloud file type is a “placeholder file” created by iCloud when it tries to free up disk space on Mac devices, as part of Apple’s new Optimize Storage feature. Placeholder files take up very little disk space because they don’t have any of the information that makes up the actual file. You can think of a placeholder file as a map to the actual file—the placeholder file lives on your device, while the actual file it represents lives on the iCloud server.

Unfortunately, moving .iCloud files into Dropbox can cause some serious issues. iCloud treats the file move as a deletion from iCloud, and it deletes the actual file on the iCloud server. In some cases, iCloud will move only the placeholder file into Dropbox, so Dropbox will sync that placeholder instead of your actual file. In this scenario, neither Dropbox nor iCloud still has the actual file.

This scenario can also occur if you’ve moved your Dropbox to a location synced by iCloud (like Documents or Desktop), or if you have a symlink to Dropbox in one of those locations.

For more information on Dropbox and iCloud on macOS Sierra, visit our help center.

Thanks!
The Dropbox Team"
[doublepost=1514497932][/doublepost]

It sounds to me as though the OP's trouble began with "Optimize Mac Storage," which is in the iCloud tab of Sys Prefs. When that's checked, you give up control over what's where -- a richly bad idea for most of us. This was much discussed back when it first appeared.

So, OP, minimally you should make sure that's unchecked, no matter what else you do.

Thanks. That's true, though I either didn't see or didn't understand what the optimize thing was going to do. Nor could I have anticipated how iCloud would react to my copying its placeholders into Dropbox.
[doublepost=1514498080][/doublepost]

OP wrote:
"And yes, I do have some local backups from which I may be able to piece together the 600-800 files. Or some of them."

THIS is "the solution".
That is, DON'T place your faith in "the cloud".
If you do, the cloud may not be there when you need it.
Would you dispute that assertion right now?

KEEP LOCAL BACKUPS of EVERYTHING that's important to you.

I highly HIGHLY recommend CarbonCopyCloner for creating such backups (SuperDuper works, also).

A well-organized "hands on" backup can be invaluable.

Thanks. I do use CCC all the time. I have maybe 9 backups on external HDs and SSDs but since I didn't know what iCloud was doing, many of them are not helpful. I think I have found one from October that is complete as of its date. That will be helpful.
[doublepost=1514498250][/doublepost]

no harm in using the 'cloud' and a physical drive; i backup (with CCC) at home, and also use crashplan. simple enough. seriously, if someone stole my mac AND my backup drive, then what? or if crashplan crashed? good to have important data backed up with both methods...

Thank you. Also please note that my cloud backup apps (Backblaze, Carbonite, and one other I can't recall right now) all seem to have copied iCLoud's "placeholder" files into current backups REPLACING THE ACTUAL FILES OF THE SAME NAMES, presumably because the dates were more recent.