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Spoilers Middle Earth/The Hobbit/ Lord of the Rings
- Thread starter Huntn
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Completely agree - I had to force myself to watch the whole trilogy. I loved the books all as a kid (and still do as a much, much older kid) Despite some quibbles I was surprised as to how well they nailed the Lord of the Rings and then was equally surprised as to how they managed to completely balls up the Hobbit. A give away to them should have been that The Hobbit has goblins and the LOTR has orcs - the hobbit wasn't mean't to be an epic but rather a charming Anglo Saxon ish folk story. It should have had a lightness of touch and a charm. Visually a watercolour while the LOTR was a dark epic oil painting written a lot during the war (when dark clouds were really building in the East etc) by someone who'd been through he first one and had managed to return to his 'Shire' unlike his friends.
I really hope that anything more is approached carefully and get's us back to Tolkien's influences. I'd like to see less obvious 3d graphics - I really didn't see the point of spending 6 hours watching a video game called the Hobbit. I think it shows a lack of confidence when live action video work can now be so beautiful (look at what was achieved on comparatively relatively low budget by the BBC for the Mantel Thomas Cromwell series)? I also hope they won't egg up the whole comic book (Marvel) schtick and to that end I'd tell the design team to forget all that stuff and send one of those Anglo Saxon reenactment groups to 'play' with everyone involved - so much of Tolkien gains huge depth if you 'get' the dark ages.
Oddly enough, this was one of the (few) cases where the movies did justice to the source material.
I have read the trilogy (cover to cover) three times, and do not (I hope) intend to revisit it.
Agreed.
It did not merit a trilogy of movies - the material wasn't enough, one good movie could have told that tale - and I write this as someone who thoroughly enjoyed the book The Hobbit, and far preferred Bilbo to Frodo as a character.
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Actually, I was being ironical; I sincerely hope that a half a dozen prequels aren't made.
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Tolkien had what are called "issues" with crafting and writing and imagining female characters - which meant that one of his fundamental weak points (and I write this as someone who enjoyed LOTR - the books) - is that he couldn't write women credibly for toffee.
So, yes, anything which allowed for a more credible and stronger role for women will always receive a welcome from me.
“I wish it need not have happened in my time.”
"So do I, and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”
"So do I, and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”
Jan 2020- Watching Fellowship Of The Ring (Pt1)- 3 parts:
- Bilbo’s party, flight to Rivendell.
- The Mines of Moria.
- Lothlorein, Uruk-Hai and the breaking of the Fellowship.
Narrative, music, cinematography, The Shire, Hobbitses, Gandalf, black flowing robes riding on demon horses, Saroman, The Eye, Rivendell, Elvin Choirs & Music, Strider & Arwen, Elrond, Legolas, Boromir, Gimli, Mines of Moria, lots-O-Orcs, the Balrog, Lothlorein, Elvin music, Lady of the Woods, and Uruk-Hai.
Unsure if y'all know, but JRR Tolkein's son, Christopher, died today at age 95.
After his father died, Christopher was the one who edited and completed some of his late father's work, such as "The Silmarrillon".
RIP CJRT
After his father died, Christopher was the one who edited and completed some of his late father's work, such as "The Silmarrillon".
RIP CJRT
Of the games I’ve played portraying Elf environments, WOW hit it out of the park with Teldressil, the visuals, the music, the way the Elves speak. I played Lord of the Rings Online, a decade or more ago, and it just did not do it for me. And while I loved both The Elder Scrolls: Oblivion and Skyrim, I don’t remember that much of an atmospheric effect with the elves in those games. Of course it‘s been a while since I played them.
The Hobbit and LOTR are the absolute best Elf environments I can identify.
The Hobbit and LOTR are the absolute best Elf environments I can identify.
RIP...
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Brought over from the Movie thread:
Fellowship of the Ring is 2h58m in it’s original theatrical release. I looked it up and the extended version adds 30 minutes of new and extended scenes. You have me wondering what I’ve missed. But now that I think about it, I remember seeing an extended cut of The Two Towers that included more of Saruman’s story.
This article explains in depth what was added. The extended BluRay version of the trilogy sells for $58 on Amazon, hmm.
Past experience tells me that extended versions are hit and miss. Aliens was a huge miss giving me more info than I wanted that took away the mystery of how what happened, happened, and having to listen to Hudson rap on the trip from the Sulaco to the colony on LV-426. Nothing surpasses the tension as they fly around the colony observing the shutters are closed, leaving it to the audience‘s imagination. Hudson did say one thing I liked included in the theatrical release about an express elevator to Hell! I believe that was adlibbed by Bill Paxton and was kept.
The extended cut of Avatar added several Earth scenes which I did not care about and one several minute outstanding hunting scene that gave the story better continuity between Jake learning to fly and making the statement, I was a stone cold aerial hunter, death from above. Only problem is, you're not the only one.
Extended versions of which ones? I’ll assume all.
Fellowship of the Ring is 2h58m in it’s original theatrical release. I looked it up and the extended version adds 30 minutes of new and extended scenes. You have me wondering what I’ve missed. But now that I think about it, I remember seeing an extended cut of The Two Towers that included more of Saruman’s story.This article explains in depth what was added. The extended BluRay version of the trilogy sells for $58 on Amazon, hmm.
Past experience tells me that extended versions are hit and miss. Aliens was a huge miss giving me more info than I wanted that took away the mystery of how what happened, happened, and having to listen to Hudson rap on the trip from the Sulaco to the colony on LV-426. Nothing surpasses the tension as they fly around the colony observing the shutters are closed, leaving it to the audience‘s imagination. Hudson did say one thing I liked included in the theatrical release about an express elevator to Hell! I believe that was adlibbed by Bill Paxton and was kept.
The extended cut of Avatar added several Earth scenes which I did not care about and one several minute outstanding hunting scene that gave the story better continuity between Jake learning to fly and making the statement, I was a stone cold aerial hunter, death from above. Only problem is, you're not the only one.
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I hadn't heard bout this and it's sad news. Christopher kept the world that his father created pretty controlled, restricted to stories his father had written, and in pretty much control over the canon to ensure that anything created fit properly into the world of things.
He was also really restrictive about providing access rights so not to turn LOTR into thousands of different shows/games and IPs
with him gone, we'll likely see the world of Tolkien turned into Disney essentially. I wouldn't be surprised if Disney doesn't turn around and buy the rights.
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Brought over from the Movie thread:
Extended versions of which ones? I’ll assume all.
This article explains in depth what was added. The extended BluRay version of the trilogy sells for $58 on Amazon, hmm.
Past experience tells me that extended versions are hit and miss. Aliens was a huge miss giving me more info than I wanted that took away the mystery of how what happened, happened, and having to listen to Hudson rap on the trip from the Sulaco to the colony on LV-426. Nothing surpasses the tension as they fly around the colony observing the shutters are closed, leaving it to the audience‘s imagination. Hudson did say one thing I liked included in the theatrical release about an express elevator to Hell! I believe that was adlibbed by Bill Paxton and was kept.
The extended cut of Avatar added several Earth scenes which I did not care about and one several minute outstanding hunting scene that gave the story better continuity between Jake learning to fly and making the statement, I was a stone cold aerial hunter, death from above. Only problem is, you're not the only one.
As a fan of the books, the Extended editions should be the standard way to watch.
I am a huge fan of the books, first started reading the Hobbit in 6th grade, have read The Hobbit/LOTR cover to cover 3 times- grade school, in my 20s, and just before the LOTRs movies. I am considering a purchase of the extended versions. A BluRay set runs about $50, about the same as buying in streaming format.
My biggest gripe about the movies as compared to the books was the LOTRosizing of The Hobbit, a book with a distinctively different and lighter touch than LOTR. And three, 3 hour movies to tell the tale of a 250 page book, with inserted false climaxes. Bah, a blatant money grab. ?
Hobbit was bad. it faced so many production issues, delays, and "cheap" work arounds to fill it out. In addition to having to make up stuff just to fill in the gaps, extrapolating based on what they believed happened between scenes (like the entire telling of the witch king that doesn't actually happen in the book)
You can tell that the production quality just wasn't there in the Hobbit. Entire fields of CG soldiers that looked like CGI from the 90s.
LOTR, even the extended edition just feels so much more authentic. Yes, I accept it's not a perfect 1:1 telling of the books either, especially the Two Towers. But it's pretty damn close to getting the main stuff right
The thing is, in the theatrical releases, certain things got cut for timing purposes. Especially in The TWo Towers, which they've added back into the extended edition that really helps it make sense. Like Fanghorn. In the Theatrical, the Orc's just run away from Helms deep and you're left kind of wondering where did they go. In the Extended, they show how Fanghorn was involved and the Orcs defeat.
the 30 or so minutes added to each movie in the LOTR series legitimately adds back stuff that was removed. Where the Extended editions of Hobbit added stuff that was never written at all.
I agree completely. What really set me off in the First Hobbit Movie was the fight between Bilbo and whoever it was, some goblin with a grudge
, when in actuality, the crew was trapped up in the trees and the Eagles came and simply flew them away. But we needed a big climax, didn’t we? And I was not happy with how the goblins were portrayed along with their leader. From the books, I imagined them living in a dark hole, not an elaborate structure.The second thing was in the second Hobbit movie the “chase” scene as the dwarves escaped from the woodland elves? Preposterous, as there was no chase, not like that, not that I remember. ?
Apart from pure, naked, unadulterated, greed, pure, simple greed, I cannot think of any reason on Earth why the book, The Hobbit, could not be adapted to make one, single, good, - even very good - movie.
It is an excellent and enjoyable story, and, to my mind, Bilbo was a far more engaging - and attractive and interesting - hero than was Frodo in the later book, but, in no way, manner or means does it - to my mind - require three movies to tell this story.
It is an excellent and enjoyable story, and, to my mind, Bilbo was a far more engaging - and attractive and interesting - hero than was Frodo in the later book, but, in no way, manner or means does it - to my mind - require three movies to tell this story.
I would venture to say there's too many parts of the story to fit satisfactorily in one film (especially if including the White Council scenes (which I did enjoy though not strictly part of the story of the Hobbit, more synchronous with it)) two shorter ones (2-2.5h each) would probably have been plenty though.
I think the extended edition of The Fellowship of the Ring adds the most positive material (vs. the other EEs) with very little negative impact. The Two Towers EE is a very mixed bag for me, some of the additions are nice clarification with plot points, where others are just silly, and add some questionable shifts in tone. Return of the King, I can definitely just go with the theatrical version.
You know, back when The Hobbit was initially announced, they said a single movie would be tough (or way too long ...), but they thought a pair movies would be just about perfect, and I thought, yes! That's enough time at about (just like you suggested) 4-5 hours total running time for both. Then when the final word came down it would be __three__ movies, I knew there's be all sorts of padding, new content, etc., just no reason other than a studio cash grab.
You know, back when The Hobbit was initially announced, they said a single movie would be tough (or way too long ...), but they thought a pair movies would be just about perfect, and I thought, yes! That's enough time at about (just like you suggested) 4-5 hours total running time for both. Then when the final word came down it would be __three__ movies, I knew there's be all sorts of padding, new content, etc., just no reason other than a studio cash grab.
I worked on the hobbit films, and we were always working towards it being 2 films.... until it became 3 (Not commenting on cash grabs etc.]
Wow, that's really interesting, I didn't think it got rolling with two films still the goal. That must've been some production, when someone finally said, "You know these two films we're making? It's going to be three!"
I'd love to hear more, but __totally__ understand your possible need for anonymity
BTW, the Hobbits are going to be at MegaCon this year
Wow, that's really interesting, I didn't think it got rolling with two films still the goal. That must've been some production, when someone finally said, "You know these two films we're making? It's going to be three!"
I'd love to hear more, but __totally__ understand your possible need for anonymity
BTW, the Hobbits are going to be at MegaCon this year
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I went through the shoot thinking it was 2 films until they decided it would be 3 - I wasn’t overly surprised at that though.
it was a great experience to work on the films although I can’t say myself I am a fan of the final result.
All of TLOR in extended versions. I haven't seen any of the extended versions of The Hobbit.
I seem to remember when the films were first being talked about, it was considered necessary to reduce the party of Dwarves somewhat - as things are across three long films I don't think we really explore many of them in any great detail... I'm not sure to what extent I would miss not at least having them there, even if effectively in a cameo role, for a shortened adaptation. I thought a lot of screen time was wasted with the made-up romance between Fili and Evangeline Lily's character (whose name I can't even remember =P) which by design can't go anywhere, because... y'know.
The Two Towers (2002)
![B5BFF87E-2CEF-4FB0-9193-B644CF56CC83.jpeg]( "B5BFF87E-2CEF-4FB0-9193-B644CF56CC83.jpeg")
- The opening sequence with the Balrog and Gandalf plummeting in combat, opening into a huge underground chasm is one of the most impressive cinematic scenes I can remember.
- The Théoden and Wormtongue sequence where Gandalf releases Théoden from Sauroman’s spell is stellar. One thing I did not understand was why in the book Gandalf agreed with Theoden’s decision to move his people to Helms Deep while in the movie, it is described as a mistake by Gimli and Gandalf.
- I did not realize that until recently that John Rhys-Davies played Gimli and the voice of Treebeard.
- The eye of Sauron is epic.
- Legolas’s bowmanship against the wolf riders and his one arm mount of a horse under the neck of the horse is frankly amazing, especially the CGI portraying this feat.
- I love the elf sequences between Aragorn, Arwen and her Father, romantic and mystical.
- The Battle of Helms Deep in combination with the Ents going to war was superbly well choreographed including Gandalf’s reinforcements and blinding light to turn the tide of the battle along with Isengard being drowned.
- Sam’s pep talk at the end is the icing on the cake.
What kind of work did you do? And my apologies if we have discussed this before in another thread. I remember talking to someone about their work in film. Now that I think about it, it was The Walking Dead.
I’ve erupted with several rants on the topic of The Hobbit. My critique concerns mosly length, added material, and as others have stated changing the fundamental tone of the story from a lighter narrative to a darker LOTR atmosphere.
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I knew about Comic-Con, but not Magacon, until now.Wow, that's really interesting, I didn't think it got rolling with two films still the goal. That must've been some production, when someone finally said, "You know these two films we're making? It's going to be three!"
I'd love to hear more, but __totally__ understand your possible need for anonymity
BTW, the Hobbits are going to be at MegaCon this year
View attachment 889749
I wonder what is on the agenda? Do they just make an appearance, sign autographs, and screen some scenes of past glories or is something new afoot?
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-Late reply-
So how do you feel about film depictions of Arwen, Galadriel, and Eowyn? They strike me as strong women, but honestly, I’d have to go back and reread the books to make meaningful comparisons.
Good but lengthy comparison link:
Movie vs. Book: Fellowship of the Ring
The differences between J.R.R. Tolkien's book The Fellowship of the Ring and the Peter Jackson film screenplay of the same name are fairly easy to document because, in both the book and film, the story maintains a single thread from beginning to end. While there are some changes in sequence, the...
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I knew about Comic-Con, but not Magacon, until now.
It's a pretty major convention, T wants to go mostly to Cosplay, but there's tons of guests, actors, comic book artists/writers, all sorts of fun stuff. Yeah, the "celebs", you can pay for autographs, photo ops, etc.
MEGACON Orlando I A huge four day weekend offering exciting family-friendly attractions, magical events, and incredible celebrities!
MEGACON ORLANDO is the mecca for all things geeky and great. See your fave guests at celebrity and gaming panels, level up your talent at our comic workshops, then get the inside scoop on upcoming movies & TV shows
I am __stoked__ about the comic guests: Jim Lee, George Perez, Art Adams, Josh Middleton, holy smokes, some greats in the industry.
All the guests are posted yet, they continuously trickly in through the con date (April 2020).
We got our early tickets and a killer suite at the Hilton across the street