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mattspace

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Jun 5, 2013
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Just wondering if anyone who has done it could comment on issues that can arise from essentially moving everything in a user account, aside from ~/Library onto a Synology. I'm thinking in terms of aliasing the standard user-account folders to the NAS which mounts automatically on login.

My research so far is you need to enable Universal Search on the NAS in order for it to build metadata indexes, so the drives are searchable with Spotlight (presumably that will allow things like Hazel, which hooks into Spotlight to do its thing), but what are the other major differences about NAS-centric storage, Vs. local?

I get the impression the Synology does versioning of files on-device, does that eliminate the need to use Time Machine for non-~/Library items?

Anything else I need to know about?
 

mattspace

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What's the goal? Space requirements...or redundancy, or something else, like syncing between multiple devices?

Well sortof all of that - What I'd like to do is centralise all document data onto the server, so that all of my Macs are effectively just local user accounts with ~/Library for stuff specific to that machine, obviously email is via IMAP, iMessage I'll move to Messages In the Cloud, and iCloud for all the stuff that iCloud syncs. But documents, movies, music, downlods etc all aliased to a folder structre on the Synology, and having the safetynet of drive redundancy.

That just leaves versioning backup that time machine does, and I have the impression you get that for free, bitrot protection etc with Synology's filesystem... but how it's accessed etc, I still haven't learned.
 

hobowankenobi

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Aug 27, 2015
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on the land line mr. smith.
If you plan to limit local storage, it sounds like you want Sync on Demand, which is a fairly new feature:


I have not used the "on Demand" feature but I will add that overall, Drive works well in my view, outside of things that constantly change, like cache. One can sync some of what is in the user's Library, but not everything. Syncing selected directories (with data living on both client and server) works well in my experience.
 
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mattspace

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If you plan to limit local storage, it sounds like you want Sync on Demand, which is a fairly new feature:


I have not used itthe "on Demand" feature but I will add that overall, Drive works well in my view, outside of things that constantly change, like cache. One can sync some of what is in the user's Library, but not everything. Syncing selected directories (with data living on both client and server) works well in my experience.

Yeah I'd looked at that, though my plan wasn't to use a client app on my mac, it was literally just to mount the Synology storage as SMB shares at login, and have the local user's folders (aside from ~/Library, which will stay specific to each machine) just aliased to the SMB share, so people would always be working on documents on the server, rather than from the local drive, then syncing back to the server.

But if I had a laptop that was working on the road, I might look into that for a subset of files.
 

dimme

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I can't speak to using a Synology but I use Resillo Sync to keep my documents folder synced across 4 Macs. No NAS required.
 

mattspace

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I can't speak to using a Synology but I use Resillo Sync to keep my documents folder synced across 4 Macs. No NAS required.

Yeah, the thing is though that I want the data OFF the individual Macs - I don't want to be syncing between them, hence looking at a NAS.
 

hobowankenobi

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on the land line mr. smith.
So you want a mounted share, not synced directories. That works fine...until it doesn't.

One challenge was always what to do when the network/server is not available, as nobody can work on anything.

Another challenge (historically) has been that some files can behave weirdly if they try to write temp/cache/auto-save files locally when working on networked drives. Testing is in order to verify with the types of files required.

If a lot of users want to work on the same files often, the limitations of file-locking (only one user can edit, and others have read-only access) may also be challenging too.
 
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hobowankenobi

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on the land line mr. smith.
Because of challenges like these, along with distributed workforces and WAN connection difficulties...the world is generally moving to synced files or cloud-based tools ala Google Workspaces or Office365 stuff. Even Apple finally made their iWork suite web collaborative-friendly.

For the same basic Word/Excel/Powerpoint needs, Synology does have their Office Package, but I have not used it, so no opinion about it. It is still file syncing as far as I can tell...
 

hobowankenobi

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Aug 27, 2015
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on the land line mr. smith.
Another issue might be that Apple is pretty particular with home user directory permissions. I would really test that hard before rollout.

It's been many years, but last I saw, if there was a network home, and the server did not mount for any reason, a new local home was created via the default template (same as any new user account creation) which can get super messy.

If either of these is still an issue, network homes would be a bag of pain. That would point back to mounted folders for specific shared data, not entire (or mostly) home directories.
 

mattspace

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So you want a mounted share, not synced directories. That works fine...until it doesn't.

One challenge was always what to do when the network/server is not available, as nobody can work on anything.

Another challenge (historically) has been that some files can behave weirdly if they try to write temp/cache/auto-save files locally when working on networked drives. Testing is in order to verify with the types of files required.

If a lot of users want to work on the same files often, the limitations of file-locking (only one user can edit, and others have read-only access) may also be challenging too.

The scenario is me, in my own studio, where I have multiple Macs and iOS devices of differing ages & OS versions, and will be introducing some Linux and or Windows machines. The server (Synology) being unavailable won't effect my ability to work, because if it's unavailable I'll be attending to the server. ;)

But that's right, the goal would be to have automountng server volumes to replace the task-dedicated hard drives that I currently have mounted inside my Mac Pro, or attached to it via USB.

Because of challenges like these, along with distributed workforces and WAN connection difficulties...the world is generally moving to synced files or cloud-based tools ala Google Workspaces or Office365 stuff. Even Apple finally made their iWork suite web collaborative-friendly.

I'm using iCloud for stuff iCloud does well - iCloud sync of app states etc. But I'm not going to use a cloud service to allow multiple computers in one place to work on 400GB layered TIFF files.

Another issue might be that Apple is pretty particular with home user directory permissions. I would really test that hard before rollout.

Oh I've been playing with that - even relocating the home directory onto a different volume from the boot drive plays merry havoc with things, despite following every tutorial I can find.

It's been many years, but last I saw, if there was a network home, and the server did not mount for any reason, a new local home was created via the default template (same as any new user account creation) which can get super messy.

In a former life, when I wasn an Apple-certified OSX Server Admin back in the Tiger days, we used to set this stuff up, and it was really nice, but yeah, not the way Apple wants to go with things.


If either of these is still an issue, network homes would be a bag of pain. That would point back to mounted folders for specific shared data, not entire (or mostly) home directories.

Yeah, so I'm not doing network homes. The goal is to have each machine containing only its operating system, and the local machine user accounts, but with, I guess personality stuff - iMessage, Safari bookmarks, reading app states etc synced via iCloud, as all the machines are logged into one iCloud account.

Documents, media etc - all the stuff that isn't in ~/Library however - the goal was to have that on the Synology.

Take for example my Aperture, or iTunes libraries - the working preferences for the application is stored on each machine ~/Library/Preferences, so that's unique to every machine, and set up specifically to suit each machine, how many displays it has etc. But the Library files, which contain the metadata and organisation, and the actual structured media files, their place is on the server, so they can be interacted with by any machine on which I'm logged in.

That's the sort of thing I'm trying to do.

But the big unknowns as I see them are to do with versioned backups - I know Synology does them internally (possibly only when using BTRFS?) but what's the UI for interacting with this etc, and can it be used in a way equivalent to Time Machine for restoring older versions of files etc.
 

mattspace

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To show you what's possible for the OP:


Thanks, but I'm not looking to sync files. What I want to do is remove file storage (aside from /~Library which is generally machine-specific) from the individual machines, so everything is working directly from the SMB share.

(Apologies if he talks about SMB later in the video, but I can't endure his breathy post-dental-anaesthetic mushmouth speaking technique, and it's hard to avoid him when researching Synology 😅 - I'll try closed captioning with the volume muted if he does discuss standard SMB setup)
 
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Kgeee

macrumors member
Sep 13, 2013
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Have you considered network speed? On my Macbook M1 Max I get ≈ 4700 MB/s write and 3700 MB/s read speed from the internal SSD.

10G ethernet is only 1.25 GB/s.
 

mattspace

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Jun 5, 2013
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Have you considered network speed? On my Macbook M1 Max I get ≈ 4700 MB/s write and 3700 MB/s read speed from the internal SSD.

10G ethernet is only 1.25 GB/s.

Most of my large files that I use most often are on spinning disks, over SATA 2, and I'm not going to be looking at SSD based bulk storage in the foreseeable future.

But yes, it's been a consideration, and if it turns out to be completely unworkable, I can probably build a sync solution for local caching that uses Hazel and / or Chronosync (Given the Synology Drive client looks to be Catalina or later).
 

satcomer

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Feb 19, 2008
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Because of challenges like these, along with distributed workforces and WAN connection difficulties...the world is generally moving to synced files or cloud-based tools ala Google Workspaces or Office365 stuff. Even Apple finally made their iWork suite web collaborative-friendly.

For the same basic Word/Excel/Powerpoint needs, Synology does have their Office Package, but I have not used it, so no opinion about it. It is still file syncing as far as I can tell...

As Mac user I suggest the free office replacement on Silicon M1-2 system is pure silicon version of LibreOffice Silicon version!
 
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Dr_Charles_Forbin

Contributor
May 11, 2016
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Thanks, but I'm not looking to sync files. What I want to do is remove file storage (aside from /~Library which is generally machine-specific) from the individual machines, so everything is working directly from the SMB share.

(Apologies if he talks about SMB later in the video, but I can't endure his breathy post-dental-anaesthetic mushmouth speaking technique, and it's hard to avoid him when researching Synology 😅 - I'll try closed captioning with the volume muted if he does discuss standard SMB setup)
I'm looking for basically the same thing. Yeah, I can probably get away with on-Demand Sync but what I really want is a common repository for Documents, Photos, and Media across all my Macs.
 
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Dr_Charles_Forbin

Contributor
May 11, 2016
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Have you considered Dropbox? It’s support LAN sync.

Else you might look into a SAN storage solution.
Dropbox? Not likely. Let me give you my use case: I have 4 macs in my house, 2 of mine, and one for each of my daughters. One is not computer saavy at all and I used to have to pry the laptop out of her hands to take a backup before I bought the Synology drive and the other one is computer savvy but rarely around. It's usually me that gets stuck looking for a file for one of them and/or they need a file I have... usually a photo or a scanned document. That's why I say drive sync would probably get the job done for me but I like the idea of them being to access a single photo repository of all family photos. BTW - just installed synology drive share - but its only offering me the option of syncing to another nas device. It could be because it's a ds220j and not a fully functional NAS. I need to look into it.
 
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