My goodness, Ventura makes everything just a little bit worse

[dysamoria]

I have recently updated to the last Mac OS my 2017 27” iMac will ever get. I was waiting on Ventura because of some audio software, but they all seem to support it now, so I made the change…

…And FFS, everything is even slightly worse than Monterey, which was slightly worse than its predecessor, which was slightly worse than its predecessor, which was… (repeat back to Snow Leopard, which was far faster, more stable, and more reliable than its predecessors or successors).

Even just the basics, like Finder and quicklook are worse. Quicklook doesn’t zoom at a double tap anymore (zoom via pressing the CMD or ALT keys is missing, too), image zoom via gestures is jumpy at times in Quicklook and Preview (no idea why it isn’t consistent, but it’s often), the memory leaks revealed by leaving a Finder multi-item Info box open continuously are still present (and may be worse), notification demand extra clicking for the same interactions (introduced in Monterey), Mac OS won’t switch to open apps in full screen workspaces reliably, the keyboard and text bugs in the iMessage app that I reported in Monterey are unfixed…

There have been so many small but new irritations from Monterey and Ventura that I can’t remember them all, nor which OS brought them.

Apple has become Microsoft and Mac OS has become Windows. This endless piling-on of brokenness and inconsistency is why I left the WinTel platform.

 

[Fishrrman]

"Apple has become Microsoft and Mac OS has become Windows"

No.
Let's rephrase that with a bit more care:
Apple is still Apple, and Mac OS is in the process of becoming "Mac iOS" ...

 

[NastyNatex]

Don’t get me wrong, Ventura has its own set of problems but the amount of hate it gets is really unjustified. Ventura been running smoothly for me with no issues.

 

[dysamoria]

"Apple has become Microsoft and Mac OS has become Windows"

No.
Let's rephrase that with a bit more care:
Apple is still Apple, and Mac OS is in the process of becoming "Mac iOS" ...

It’s worse than just turning into iOS, and iOS itself is buggy as hell.

Nuance? Okay: Mac OS is still not nearly as bad as Windows, because I’m still going to keep using it. I have Windows 10 installed for gaming and I hate every second I have to interact with it that isn’t gaming.

That said, Mac OS has been getting worse at every version, just like iOS, and there’s clearly a lack of attention to detail at Apple, and worse: a lack of enough developer time put into 100% replacement of Mac OS components with Swift/iOS versions, because every single time they replace some part, it’s missing features, the UI is buggy, and it feels like Mac OS is falling apart.

 

[jonasen]

It’s worse than just turning into iOS, and iOS itself is buggy as hell.

Nuance? Okay: Mac OS is still not nearly as bad as Windows, because I’m still going to keep using it. I have Windows 10 installed for gaming and I hate every second I have to interact with it that isn’t gaming.

That said, Mac OS has been getting worse at every version, just like iOS, and there’s clearly a lack of attention to detail at Apple, and worse: a lack of enough developer time put into 100% replacement of Mac OS components with Swift/iOS versions, because every single time they replace some part, it’s missing features, the UI is buggy, and it feels like Mac OS is falling apart.

I think the problem is the yearly updates. There is simply no reason to add new stuff to a desktop system every year. For the phone I get it, they want to add features to help sales as people switch their phones more often, but a desktop or laptop isn't replaced every year so the OS doesn't have to be updated every year. They should at least have one year only for stability and security for every change to the UI.

 

[orionquest]

Don’t get me wrong, Ventura has its own set of problems but the amount of hate it gets is really unjustified. Ventura been running smoothly for me with no issues.

MacOS without any issues seems like pure BS.
Maybe you are just not aware of what the issues are and pass it off as just smoothly when it's not. 🤷‍♂️

 

[NastyNatex]

MacOS without any issues seems like pure BS.
Maybe you are just not aware of what the issues are and pass it off as just smoothly when it's not. 🤷‍♂️

I'm sorry to inform you, but there are people who are running Mac OS smoothly without any issues. Majority of people that own Macs generally do not rush to online forums to post about their seamless experience with Mac OS. It's important to recognize that Macrumors represents only a small fraction of Mac users who actively share threads regarding problems. They do not speak for the majority of the Mac OS population.

 

[orionquest]

I'm sorry to inform you, but there are people who are running Mac OS smoothly without any issues. Majority of people that own Macs generally do not rush to online forums to post about their seamless experience with Mac OS. It's important to recognize that Macrumors represents only a small fraction of Mac users who actively share threads regarding problems. They do not speak for the majority of the Mac OS population.

Still shoveling that BS. I've yet to see a version of MacOS without some issues. Yes for the most part it runs well, but there are always issues. And lots of people who are not observant of what those issues are, basically your clueless user.

Big Sur onwards (might have been Catalna) introduced a host of security improvements, locking down the OS, permissions, boot drive, etc. but with that came a bunch of shuttering, beach balling, pausing, however one describes it when accessing folders and files.

 

[EdwardC]

No issues at all with MacOS but then again I have no issues at all with Windows 11 (11 Pro For Workstations).

 

[telecomm]

"Apple has become Microsoft and Mac OS has become Windows"

No.
Let's rephrase that with a bit more care:
Apple is still Apple, and Mac OS is in the process of becoming "Mac iOS" ...

What they've done to System Settings is mind boggling, and Music... ugh.

 

[eicca]

Apple is no longer interested in creating software that does jobs for its users. They’ve switched entirely over to creating fancy bells and whistles to tell their shareholders that they’re doing new stuff, often at the expense of genuinely helpful features.

The only reason I couldn’t be just as productive on Snow Leopard as I can on Ventura is compatibility. Ventura is actually quite a bit less intuitive and more frustrating to use. Apple use to be all about getting out of your way and giving you all the tools to do your job. Now they want you to do the job but in their own arbitrary way.

OP is correct that Apple have lost their focus on quality and stability, and have changed and removed a lot of genuinely useful things that have actually made it more frustrating to use the newest operating systems. macOS, iOS, iPadOS, same trend.

Read up on Clayton Christensen’s “jobs to be done” product design principles and it’s clear that Apple has fallen quite far.

 

[Love-hate 🍏 relationship]

I think the problem is the yearly updates. There is simply no reason to add new stuff to a desktop system every year. For the phone I get it, they want to add features to help sales as people switch their phones more often, but a desktop or laptop isn't replaced every year so the OS doesn't have to be updated every year. They should at least have one year only for stability and security for every change to the UI.

I mean I don't rly care that much about new looks and wallpapers or widgets (cool but not absolutely necessary)

However macOS lacks a lot of features that should be standard

The windows management is terrible

No clipboard history

Multiple audio sources management

All of which have been present on windows for years and years

Control center is due for a rework too

But hey, perhaps if they work to go on a big annual schedule, we could get those improvements instead of visuals and incremental stuff

 

[Yebubbleman]

Don’t get me wrong, Ventura has its own set of problems but the amount of hate it gets is really unjustified. Ventura been running smoothly for me with no issues.

It runs fine. Sure. But that doesn't mean it's free of bugs, glitches, and otherwise unwanted behavior. It DOES fix a few Monterey-isms that were inexplicable and irritating, but it introduces new ones.

It would be nice if Apple could release these every other year rather than every year. It's clear that their development cycle is too much too fast.

 

[Nermal]

The windows management is terrible

Probably, but look at the competition. You'd think an operating system called "Windows" would have a modicum of competent window management. My favourite is when it moves my windows around unprompted (I've yet to figure out what actually causes this and when it happens because I never actually see it happen in front of my eyes).

 

[Love-hate 🍏 relationship]

Probably, but look at the competition. You'd think an operating system called "Windows" would have a modicum of competent window management.

Well, it does ? What do you have to reproach ?

They've improved it further in win11 from what I've seen (though I didn't use it myself)

Edit: ha funny, edit shows for me

 

[MacProFCP]

High Sierra was the last OS that did me any good. Big Sur eventually worked well, though it took around 6 months or more.

I can’t stand the new format as it makes everything less intuitive and much more annoying. This is why I wait a year before upgrading. The only reason I have use Ventura is that my M/ Max MBP runs it. My office machines are on Monterey or Big Sur.

 

[Sciuriware]

"Apple has become Microsoft and Mac OS has become Windows"

No.
Let's rephrase that with a bit more care:
Apple is still Apple, and Mac OS is in the process of becoming "Mac iOS" ...

Don't forget that once Microsoft bought Windows from Apple .......
;JOOP!

 

[thebart]

Mac OS is lacking some very basic things, most already mentioned here. My pet peeves: no simple way to drag and drop between windows that aren't on the screen at the same time; no progress bar or speed indicator during long file ops; no unattended long file ops.

I've given up on windows management and just use stage manager. I don't actually use the stage manager per se; I'm just using it for the one window at a time mode.

The whole macos development seems driven by what stuff they can show off at wwdc, which means visual enhancements and iOS integration, because iOS is their bread and butter, not Mac OS.

 

[minik]

I remember supporting DAW in my last job and it was quite unpleasant. This iMac is my main computer at work with a 1TB Fusion drive. It was slow at times especially right after each minor version update, but quickly back to the usual.

For some reasons, I quickly forgot the behavior from previous version of macOS once I upgraded to the current version. I also have a M1 MacBook Air and recently macOS Ventura update seems to make it worse. M2 devices are excellent at this point. 😆

 

[dysamoria]

I remember supporting DAW in my last job and it was quite unpleasant. This iMac is my main computer at work with a 1TB Fusion drive. It was slow at times especially right after each minor version update, but quickly back to the usual.

For some reasons, I quickly forgot the behavior from previous version of macOS once I upgraded to the current version. I also have a M1 MacBook Air and recently macOS Ventura update seems to make it worse. M2 devices are excellent at this point. 😆


View attachment 2222011

Re-indexing, yeah. But no, that’s not the problem I’m getting at. The STRING or PILES of problems I’m talking about. It’s so exhausting and I find it mind-boggling how any users can claim to not see any problems at this point. I can only guess that they … aren’t power users?? Not keyboard and gesture and workspace users?? How little of the OS must a person use to not run into bugs?

 

[Longplays]

I want Tim to take a 52W break to do a Snow Leopard and High Sierra on macOS!

 

[svenmany]

Re-indexing, yeah. But no, that’s not the problem I’m getting at. The STRING or PILES of problems I’m talking about. It’s so exhausting and I find it mind-boggling how any users can claim to not see any problems at this point. I can only guess that they … aren’t power users?? Not keyboard and gesture and workspace users?? How little of the OS must a person use to not run into bugs?

Same here. It is bewildering that some people think everything is OK. Are they just not noticing the bugs? Perhaps their expectations are so low that they think the bugs they see are normal. Maybe they're just lucky.

Did the update this morning. Once again, I lost almost all of my Finder favorites. Am I just very unlucky?

 

[Nermal]

Perhaps their expectations are so low that they think the bugs they see are normal.

I used to see this quite a bit when I was supporting "ordinary" people. When an warning or error message popped up, they'd just immediately close it. They certainly wouldn't read it.

Me: Wait, what was that?!
Them: What was what?
Me: That error you just closed.
Them: Oh, that always happens.

 

[minik]

Re-indexing, yeah. But no, that’s not the problem I’m getting at. The STRING or PILES of problems I’m talking about. It’s so exhausting and I find it mind-boggling how any users can claim to not see any problems at this point. I can only guess that they … aren’t power users?? Not keyboard and gesture and workspace users?? How little of the OS must a person use to not run into bugs?

I work as a Mac sysadmin and deploy a lot of Mac in the HigherEdu environment. Personally I don't interact with a lot of those said features. Yes, the notification can be done better/rewritten and oh sure the memory leaks. Full screen app is something I don't like to use, never liked one app take over the entire screen. I still wish Apple put back the home folder and hard disks on the sidebar as default, might as well the Hard disk icon on the Finder.

 

[Sciuriware]

I used to see this quite a bit when I was supporting "ordinary" people. When an warning or error message popped up, they'd just immediately close it. They certainly wouldn't read it.

Me: Wait, what was that?!
Them: What was what?
Me: That error you just closed.
Them: Oh, that always happens.

True, but, why do so few applications log their errors, so IT can find out what happened?
;JOOP!