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B S Magnet

macrumors 601
Original poster
When Jobs was re-hired by the company in 1997, Apple’s products — Mac and Newton both — had splayed across a mess of different naming conventions meant to describe the product’s specific features within the title itself. This often left the casual shopper at the mercy of someone who could break down the difference between, say, a Macintosh Performa 6260CD and a Macintosh Performa 6310CD. Or the PowerBook 1400, 2400, and 3400, along with all their variants. It was a long way from the time of Macintosh, Macintosh Plus, Macintosh IIx, and so on.

Jobs, as we know, radically simplified Apple’s offerings to the now-familiar “grid of four” product lines — with “pro” and “consumer” along one axis and “desktop” and “portable” along the other. Also, the processors weren’t marketed up front as “750” or “7400” as with the 601/603/604 predecessors, but instead as “G3”, “G4” and, later, “G5”.

This is how we ended up with, say, the Power Mac G5, the iMac G4, the PowerBook G3, and the iBook G4. There were variations within, but these were generally recognizable, even to the most casual consumer. They still are.

Later, Jobs tried a fifth product, the Cube. It flopped, but was later succeeded by the Mac mini. (This omits, of course, the Xserve, which didn’t see the light of day beyond data centre racks and was an unfamiliar name for people who mostly knew of the iBook, iMac, MacBook, and MacBook Air.)

Jobs’ switch to Intel went on to complete a long lasting “grid of six”, maintaining three desktop products and adding the MacBook Air to round out three portable Macs. Then we came to know “Core i3/i5/i7/i9” in Intel’s nomenclature to denote base processor capabilities — with a Core i9 Mac understood generally to be a higher end CPU than a Core i3 Mac. And so on.

Jobs’s “grid of six”, or “six pack”, despite the switch to Apple Silicon, stayed pretty consistent and legible for the last fourteen or so years — or the last 22 years, should one consider the G4 Cube to be the start of that “grid of six” era.

Until this week.

With the the addition of the Mac Studio, this grid is no longer. We’re up to seven discrete product lines (minding how the MacBook has been an on-again, off-again thing, and the iMac Pro basically being a beefy iMac) — coupled with processor names running the gamut of M1, M1 Pro, M1 Max, and now M1 Ultra (which, confusingly, is two M1 Maxes — “Maxs”? — combined). Further, we’re now seeing products with names like the “Apple MacBook Pro 16-inch M1 Pro,” which is suggestive of trying to use the product title as the vehicle for describing the nitty-gritty particulars, much as Apple did during the Gil Amelio years.

Or is it?

Anyhow, I wasn’t sure whether to post this on the PowerPC forum, but this seemed as good a place as any to start a conversation. [Mods: if you can think of a better place to house this discussion, feel free to move it there.]

The question I’m throwing out there for all you haggard users of Macs, especially those of us still daily-using our PowerPC Macs (ones generally from that period when processors were simply known as G3/G4/G5 and the products we use fit neatly inside that “Jobs grid”): do you find naming creep is now returned to Apple’s marque?

Discuss!

[End note: bear in mind this doesn’t factor in discussion of Apple’s other consumer products like the iPhone, iPad, and iPod Touch (which mostly makes my head ache just contemplating it).]
 
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lepidotós

macrumors 6502a
Aug 29, 2021
668
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Marinette, Arizona
I didn't even know about the Mac Studio -- that shows you how interested I am in the present-day Macintosh platform. The only reason I would have to get one is to play a single mobile game that's on iOS. They say it's stunningly small, but it looks basically like they removed and epoxied shut the CD drive from a mini G4. Except apparently it's over an inch wider in each direction.
Also, this kinda seems like a better fit for the Apple Silicon forums given that the actual topic is AS Macs.​
 
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B S Magnet

macrumors 601
Original poster
I didn't even know about the Mac Studio -- that shows you how interested I am in the present-day Macintosh platform. The only reason I would have to get one is to play a single mobile game that's on iOS. They say it's stunningly small, but it looks basically like they removed and epoxied shut the CD drive from a mini G4. Except apparently it's over an inch wider in each direction.

Frankly, I learnt of it because I pulled up a newspaper web site this evening. Then I went to look at it and was all, “I bet the SSD is soldered, lmao.”

Also, this kinda seems like a better fit for the Apple Silicon forums given that the actual topic is AS Macs.

Thing is, this is less about Apple Silicon and more about Apple’s past and present tack for naming Mac products — sort of a review on how history is seeming to find a way to rhyme (if not repeat), and whether that history might need a radical simplification of naming before too long.

So this thread, on whichever forum it is ultimately filed, is meant to open a meta-discussion on this tack/strategy and its consequences, whether good or bad — rather than on the products themselves.

To wit, I don’t care about the current products or what they are purported to do. I don’t know whether I ever will, but I’m nevertheless curious to witness how these increasingly cumbersome product names will play out with overall brand recognition, or whether we might end up seeing a rash of think pieces, like three years from now, all saying “Apple today is more like Gil Amelio’s Apple than Steve Jobs’s Apple, and Here’s Why That’s Bad, Actually”.

My interest to start a thread probably stems from working in company branding during my first career and exercising care not to lose sight of the branding big picture.

I’m sort of hoping this thread, with an audience of many sage regulars, might beat those think pieces to the punch by, idk, a few years, because that’s what we kinda do here: embrace the art of the possible and find things which other folks tend to overlook. :)
 

Amethyst1

macrumors G3
Oct 28, 2015
9,370
11,514
I didn't even know about the Mac Studio [...]
As little as I care about it, it's nice to finally see a beefier Mac mini see the light of day. This is what should™ have been released during the Intel days IMHO.

Frankly, I learnt of it because I pulled up a newspaper web site this evening. Then I went to look at it and was all, “I bet the SSD is soldered, lmao.”
You can bet both your hands on that. But with 128 GB of RAM, you can pretty much load the whole OS into RAM. :)

As a sidenote, it's funny to see the "Studio Display" name being resurrected, although I'd have liked a cheaper, less fancy 32" 6K offering.
 

galgot

macrumors 6502
May 28, 2015
486
898
About branding names, i'll alway regret the switch from PowerBook to MacBook...
I mean PowerBook is such a cool name. And translated in French, it's "Livre de puissance" which adds an even cooler wizardery meaning to the thing :D "MacBook" seems so dull compare to it.
And the first PowerBook, the PB 100, wasn't even a Power PC... But maybe the word "Power" was trademaked by IBM/Motorola for use of their chips and they had change it anyway.
Or they felt the need to mark the chip change with another name (more likely... ).
 

B S Magnet

macrumors 601
Original poster
About branding names, i'll alway regret the switch from PowerBook to MacBook...
I mean PowerBook is such a cool name. And translated in French, it's "Livre de puissance" which adds an even cooler wizardery meaning to the thing :D "MacBook" seems so dull compare to it.

Indeed!

Also, it would have been pretty neat to see the display bezel for French market PowerBooks boast “Livre de puissance G3/G4” instead. :D

And the first PowerBook, the PB 100, wasn't even a Power PC... But maybe the word "Power" was trademaked by IBM/Motorola for use of their chips and they had change it anyway.

Or they felt the need to mark the chip change with another name (more likely... ).

I’m starting to think the dual appearance of a word within the title of an Apple product is and will, in retrospect, reveal how the product aspired to live up to that word, but never really reached it.

A case in point:

During the mid ’90s, the PowerBook 5300 with PowerPC was the immediate successor of the 68LC040 PowerBooks. These first PowerBooks with PowerPC CPUs, however, were not powerful in their time as their name aspired to be. In several senses, they were a step backward in performance (which, in fairness, might have been related to having to run “fat” binaries initially).

It would take a while before PowerPC-equipped PowerBooks could earnestly hold their own (probably sometime after the PDQ G3s). But by then, there was also no need to have “Power” appear twice: the “G3” in the product name implied the kind of PowerPC CPU running within.

Perhaps in the same spirit, the “MacBook Pro M1 Pro” aspires to serve as a “pro” device, but we’re also aware how a sincere, professional-calibre laptop offers the “pro” user a modicum of modular capability to grow with the owner as needs arise — to deliever a level of forward-compatibility. This is something the MacBook Pro M1 Pro lacks conspicuously — almost as a point of pride in Apple’s marketing and product launch materials.
 

B S Magnet

macrumors 601
Original poster
As little as I care about it, it's nice to finally see a beefier Mac mini see the light of day. This is what should™ have been released during the Intel days IMHO.


You can bet both your hands on that. But with 128 GB of RAM, you can pretty much load the whole OS into RAM. :)

As a sidenote, it's funny to see the "Studio Display" name being resurrected, although I'd have liked a cheaper, less fancy 32" 6K offering.

I suppose we ought to be expecting a MacBook Studio at some point.

Also, in Canada, a Mac Studio will be better known as the Mac Bachelor. :D
 

Doq

macrumors 6502
Dec 8, 2019
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The Lab DX
I don't know of any outlet, including Apple themselves, that call their Macs by their model and CPU. They're still 'MacBook Pro 16"' and 'Mac Studio', much like the old PowerBooks and IntelBooks were. You wouldn't call it a 'MacBook Pro 15" i9'.

As far as the Grid of Six goes, the state of Apple might be astray from that for now, but I do believe that once every Intel Mac is phased out, the Grid will return. It might even be early if the Big Boy Mac Pro gets discontinued; though that may be far down the line.

They might even go with a Grid of Nine model, splitting the iMacs from the "BYODKM" Macs.
 

weckart

macrumors 603
Nov 7, 2004
5,837
3,516
I bought a PowerBook 1400c/166. It had a G3 233MHz upgrade processor in it. There was nothing 166 about it; all lies. I have never trusted Apple's nomenclature since.

I still think the forthcoming Mac Pro will sport an M1 Max Pro Ultra SuperDuper SOC in it, so there is still some way to go in the bloated naming convention
 

ahurst

macrumors 6502
Oct 12, 2021
410
815
There's definitely an element of awkwardness to using "Pro" in the name of the CPU as well as in the names of the products it goes into, but it also depends on how detailed a name you're using for the device.

I mean, 14" MacBook Pro (Late 2021) is about as succinct as 13" MacBook Pro (Mid 2010) or 14" iBook G4 (Mid 2005). The awkwardness only comes out when you try to get more detailed, with 14" Macbook Pro (M1 Pro), which would be the information equivalent of 13" MacBook Pro (i7-2620M) or 13" MacBook Pro (Late 2011, i7). For the Late 2021 MBPs specifically, the only major difference between the 8c/2c Pro and Max chips is the GPU, so distinguishing between them is more like how people say 15" MacBook Pro (Mid 2012, 650M GPU) vs 15" MacBook Pro (Mid 2012, HD4000 GPU).

As for the product grid, I realize this is the first truly new Mac "line" by name since 2006 (MacBook Air & iMac Pro being variations on old ones), which is pretty wild. That said, with the disappearance (for now) of the 27" iMac and iMac Pro lines, I think the Studio is less a new square in the grid and more a headless replacement for whatever square those Macs were in (high-performance sub-workstation?).

Anyway, to get at your core point: I think the Mac lineup itself is pretty far from mid-90's confusion levels, but the dizzying array of services and accessories Apple now sells might be getting close. Here's hoping they take care not to spread themselves too thin!
 
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Macbookprodude

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I didn't even know about the Mac Studio -- that shows you how interested I am in the present-day Macintosh platform. The only reason I would have to get one is to play a single mobile game that's on iOS. They say it's stunningly small, but it looks basically like they removed and epoxied shut the CD drive from a mini G4. Except apparently it's over an inch wider in each direction.
Also, this kinda seems like a better fit for the Apple Silicon forums given that the actual topic is AS Macs.​
I agree somewhat. While "Apple Silicon" (aren't PPC processors too silicon?) is a RISC cousin to PowerPC(RISC technology), it is a good topic that can be discussed here. However, i wish Apple returned to cat names again, as there are plenty of feline names to use for each version. At least with M1, M2, and so forth one can say "Think Differently" again. But for how long will it work ? I remember yes, we could run Windows on a PPC mac, but Apple Silicon or ARM doesn't allow even bootcamp, so one needs to use virtualization too.
 

Macbookprodude

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Indeed!

Also, it would have been pretty neat to see the display bezel for French market PowerBooks boast “Livre de puissance G3/G4” instead. :D



I’m starting to think the dual appearance of a word within the title of an Apple product is and will, in retrospect, reveal how the product aspired to live up to that word, but never really reached it.

A case in point:

During the mid ’90s, the PowerBook 5300 with PowerPC was the immediate successor of the 68LC040 PowerBooks. These first PowerBooks with PowerPC CPUs, however, were not powerful in their time as their name aspired to be. In several senses, they were a step backward in performance (which, in fairness, might have been related to having to run “fat” binaries initially).

It would take a while before PowerPC-equipped PowerBooks could earnestly hold their own (probably sometime after the PDQ G3s). But by then, there was also no need to have “Power” appear twice: the “G3” in the product name implied the kind of PowerPC CPU running within.

Perhaps in the same spirit, the “MacBook Pro M1 Pro” aspires to serve as a “pro” device, but we’re also aware how a sincere, professional-calibre laptop offers the “pro” user a modicum of modular capability to grow with the owner as needs arise — to deliever a level of forward-compatibility. This is something the MacBook Pro M1 Pro lacks conspicuously — almost as a point of pride in Apple’s marketing and product launch materials.
Perhaps in the same spirit, the “MacBook Pro M1 Pro” aspires to serve as a “pro” device, but we’re also aware how a sincere, professional-calibre laptop offers the “pro” user a modicum of modular capability to grow with the owner as needs - Yeah, if most of us can afford one of those - those prices are in the stratosphere compared to when PowerPC PowerBooks came out.
 

B S Magnet

macrumors 601
Original poster
I don't know of any outlet, including Apple themselves, that call their Macs by their model and CPU. They're still 'MacBook Pro 16"' and 'Mac Studio', much like the old PowerBooks and IntelBooks were. You wouldn't call it a 'MacBook Pro 15" i9'.

You wouldn’t, no. But to say Apple never referred to their Macs by model name and CPU completely elides memory of the G3/G4/G5 period. (Note: there were archive-dot-org pages saved for the B&W Power Mac G3, but the images were broken.)

1646887516202.png 1646887778782.png 1646887875420.png

As far as the Grid of Six goes, the state of Apple might be astray from that for now, but I do believe that once every Intel Mac is phased out, the Grid will return. It might even be early if the Big Boy Mac Pro gets discontinued; though that may be far down the line.

With Mac Studio, I am left to wonder whether the Mac Pro will be re-positioned as a sub-enterprise, but “hyper-professional” kit (i.e., major studios, rendering facilities, supercomputing, etc.) — reserving its future appearances as a used product being sold on the secondhand market to be almost as uncommon a sight as the Xserve was in its day. They did, after all, go through the money and effort to release a variant of it in a rack-mountable form factor.

They might even go with a Grid of Nine model, splitting the iMacs from the "BYODKM" Macs.

Which might, I fathom, lend credibility to a notion that Apple’s product naming may continue to stray from that relatively lithe, “grid of four” era. It may also hint at a new level of market segmentation borrowed indirectly from niche products sold by semi-luxury automotive brands (as, for instance, BMW, now with X1, X2, X3, X4, X5, X6, and X7 luxury utility models, as well as 1-series through 8-series car models — 6-series now excepted — and i-Series electric-only models).

Whatever the case, whilst the short version of the current MacBook Pro product line reserves “M1 Pro” and M1 Max” for the longer description of what differentiates the 14-inch and 16-inch products from, say, the “MacBook Pro 13-inch with Apple M1 Chip”, doubling the use of “Pro” in both the short product name and for the chip name produces a messy outcome with dilutes the meaning of the marketing word “Pro”.

1646889792080.png



Overheard at some Apple Store in Anycity, Anywhere, from a prospective customer with more money than sense:

“So wait, you’re saying this MacBook Pro doesn’t have a ‘Pro’ chip? Are you saying this MacBook Pro isn’t really a ‘Pro’ laptop — like, Pro-lite? Well, I want all of the Pro but in this size. What… what do you mean I can’t have that? What kind of a scam are y’all trying to pull?”

1646889954736.png
 
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mectojic

macrumors 65816
Dec 27, 2020
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Great post. It’s always a relief to me to read threads that aren’t about performance, specs and features, but about marketing. It seems that modern Mac users don’t seem to acknowledge enough how powerful marketing, and simplicity in product naming has been to Apple’s success. Don’t tell them I said this, but modern Mac users almost sound like PC users to me – it’s all about specs and performance.
Thank god the tech-obsessed on Macrumors don’t constitute the majority of Apple’s market. Actually, the main market seems to be iPhone SEs for teenagers, and cheap iPads for toddlers…

I’ve always thought that the G3 era is peak Apple, precisely because of the 4-grid product strategy. To act as though 1998 was a simpler time to 2022 is misguided – in 1998, people had a million different computing needs, and that’s exactly what Spindler gave people.

With the M1, I had hoped that Apple could return to an extremely simple product line again. After all, the G3 chip was one of the best on the market at the time, meaning there was no need for a million “pro” and “base” models. That said, in terms of simplicity, you could look at MHz first and then vram if you wanted, whereas now you need to look at number of CPU and GPU cores. It’s a different ballpark, sadly.

Here’s what I think they’re doing now (all examples below can be modified slightly with Ram and storage, that’s a given):
MacBook Air M1 – base model.

MacBook Pro M1 – base ‘Pro’.
MacBook Pro M1 Pro – pro base ‘Pro’ (I hated this naming convention)
MacBook Pro M1 Max – top-end Pro.

iMac M1 – 24” consumer AIO.

Mac Mini M1 – base mini.
Mac Mini Intel ‘pro’ – why the heck does this space grey atrocity still exist.
Mac Studio M1 Max - base ‘Pro’ desktop.
Mac Studio M1 Ultra - pro ‘pro’ desktop.

Mac Pro Intel - extreme high-end pro (this category didn’t really exist in Job’s time)

And note, this doesn’t also account for all the similar shenanigans going on in the iPad product line (base iPad, iPad mini, M1 Pro 11”, M1 Pro 12”, M1 iPad Air… and a great case could be made to say that iPads could merge with MacBooks into a single portable consumer line…)

If I use my inner-Jobs, here’s how you could instantly simplify the product line:

Consumer notebook = MacBook M1. The ‘air’ naming convention makes no sense now that there is no MacBook for comparison. Delete the current MacBook Pro M1, that thing is ridiculous.

Pro notebook = MacBook Pro M1. This has an M1 Pro chip inside. If you want the ‘M1 Max’, it’s just called M1 Pro but with higher specs. There should only be 2 configuration options, just like the Pismo 400 / 500.

Consumer Desktop = iMac M1. It’s actually an M1 Mac Mini – the AIO concept is no longer necessary anymore, now that laptops and tablets are everywhere. (I bet iMac M1 sales aren’t very good, because I haven’t seen a single one in the wild.) This way you merge the iMac and Mac Mini lines.
As should be non-negotiable for a desktop, the iMac M1 should come with a better chip than the MacBook – probably as good as the MacBook Pro.

Pro Desktop = Mac Pro M1 (basically what the Mac Studio is). If you’ve seen the specs on this thing (up to 128GB ram, 8TB SSD, 48-core GPU)… you’ll realise that no-one needs a higher-specced Mac than that.

Honestly, to keep the product line simpler, Apple shouldn’t even make an advanced Mac Pro – or perhaps they could only offer it privately and not on the website, just like eMacs were sold only to education.

So there we go. It is still feasible to squeeze M1 Apple into a 4-grid. Why don’t they do this? Profits. Yeah, it’s that simple.
Jobs was cutting prices down by the hundreds from 1998-2001, to get market share. Now, Apple is back to hunting profits…
 

B S Magnet

macrumors 601
Original poster
Thank god the tech-obsessed on Macrumors don’t constitute the majority of Apple’s market. Actually, the main market seems to be iPhone SEs for teenagers, and cheap iPads for toddlers…

When toddlers have spending accounts to afford themselves iPads, then it could be time to talk about wealth reform…

I’ve always thought that the G3 era is peak Apple, precisely because of the 4-grid product strategy. To act as though 1998 was a simpler time to 2022 is misguided – in 1998, people had a million different computing needs, and that’s exactly what Spindler gave people.

Spindler and Amelio both hewed to a complexity in product offerings and considered this preferable to a taxonomy of only four or six major products, with tailored user needs being decided at the sub-product level. The product naming conventions then were befuddling even to existing Mac users who were looking to buy a PowerPC Mac. And I also remember how difficult it was, as a seller of computers in the mid-’90s, to discern the meaningful differences between different Performa models for potential buyers (who often just went for a 486 or Pentium desktop from Packard-Bell or maybe Compaq).

This approach nearly ended Apple because the company didn’t have a three trillion-dollar cushion beneath them.


With the M1, I had hoped that Apple could return to an extremely simple product line again. After all, the G3 chip was one of the best on the market at the time, meaning there was no need for a million “pro” and “base” models. That said, in terms of simplicity, you could look at MHz first and then vram if you wanted, whereas now you need to look at number of CPU and GPU cores. It’s a different ballpark, sadly.

Quite.

Mac Mini Intel ‘pro’ – why the heck does this space grey atrocity still exist.

I’ve always likened it to a gunmetal grey, and some folks, especially in the U.S., really love their gunmetal grey.


Mac Pro Intel - extreme high-end pro (this category didn’t really exist in Job’s time)

Exactly.


Consumer Desktop = iMac M1. It’s actually an M1 Mac Mini – the AIO concept is no longer necessary anymore, now that laptops and tablets are everywhere. (I bet iMac M1 sales aren’t very good, because I haven’t seen a single one in the wild.)

I‘ve seen one iMac M1 box in the wild (being tossed out)!


This way you merge the iMac and Mac Mini lines.
As should be non-negotiable for a desktop, the iMac M1 should come with a better chip than the MacBook – probably as good as the MacBook Pro.

Pro Desktop = Mac Pro M1 (basically what the Mac Studio is). If you’ve seen the specs on this thing (up to 128GB ram, 8TB SSD, 48-core GPU)… you’ll realise that no-one needs a higher-specced Mac than that.

Nevertheless, there is no accommodation for modular component interchangeability or upgradeability (which could become a moderately big deal as reports of soldered SSDs failing begin to emerge on a product which is, de facto, a successor of the Intel Mac Pro for most of its expected user base).


Honestly, to keep the product line simpler, Apple shouldn’t even make an advanced Mac Pro – or perhaps they could only offer it privately and not on the website, just like eMacs were sold only to education.

It’s possible they may just relegate its marketing importance to that of the Xserve when it was still sold: a highly niche product for research and supercomputing applications.

Thing is: Apple’s insistence on leading with soldered storage doesn’t seem to be a thing which is being copied in earnest by other competitors they way, say, ditching the headphone jack on mobile devices or ditching the optical and floppy drives were. The m.2 NVMe market (and even the m.2 SATA market) is remarkably robust these days.

So there we go. It is still feasible to squeeze M1 Apple into a 4-grid. Why don’t they do this? Profits. Yeah, it’s that simple.
Jobs was cutting prices down by the hundreds from 1998-2001, to get market share. Now, Apple is back to hunting profits…

They presently have the capital to burn. It’s hard to predict this will always be the case.
 

lepidotós

macrumors 6502a
Aug 29, 2021
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Marinette, Arizona
If we're bringing back the Spindler age, I'd really like to see the clones come back. I mean, it's a pipe dream and they never will, but I honestly don't really care for the whole "four or six or whatever products into perpetuity" thing. I wouldn't buy one, I'm still committed to OpenPOWER, but just having more than Apple and Lenovo on the ARM true laptop, or even desktop, front would do wonders to bring more diversity into the currently monocultural landscape where Intel no longer has to even try.
The 'naming creep' thing is kind of just inevitable when you have two things named the exact same that have literally nothing to do with each other -- see the PCI G4s and the FW800s, or the 3500 and the Pismo. Doesn't really bother me much, just makes things a little more annoying to look up.​
 
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Malus120

macrumors 6502a
Jun 28, 2002
679
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Interesting topic! Haven't owned a PPC Mac in well over a decade (my pride and joy at one time was a PowerMac G5 and an iBook) but I'll chime in!

I do think Apple's naming conventions have gotten... slowly... but noticeably worse/harder to decipher over the decade since Job's death. It's not the end of the world but it's there.

Pro -> Max -> Ultra... is... annoying although I guess it's still better than AMD/Nvidia/Intel.

I will add though, this new era of Apple Silicon really takes me back to the heydays of the G3/G4/G5 and PowerPC vs x86. I thought i'd hate it when the switch was announced but its really exciting have Apple as another independent major player in the high performance space competing with Intel and AMD.
It's also nice to see Apple Silicon just flat out winning in a lot more scenarios than dark days of the "Mhz myth" when it was like... "a Mac could be faster... if the program uses Altivec really well.... and can take advantage of dual processors..."
 
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B S Magnet

macrumors 601
Original poster
If we're bringing back the Spindler age, I'd really like to see the clones come back. I mean, it's a pipe dream and they never will, but I honestly don't really care for the whole "four or six or whatever products into perpetuity" thing.​

A case for breaking up the singular handful of CPU competitors may not be in the legal works presently, but the industry would doubtlessly benefit from upstarts with new innovations not being pursued by Intel, Apple, AMD, or even IBM.

I wouldn't buy one, I'm still committed to OpenPOWER, but just having more than Apple and Lenovo on the ARM true laptop, or even desktop, front would do wonders to bring more diversity into the currently monocultural landscape where Intel no longer has to even try.​

Had, for instance, there been overall stronger competitive regulation, say, in 2008, PA Semi chips may instead have made their way into a laptop produced by a company other than, say, Apple — fully capable of running not only Leopard, but also PowerPC iterations of FreeBSD and Linux. Instead, only one PA Semi chip managed to reach the market before Apple played amoeba and absorbed them in a purchase. There is little doubt the specific talents the PA Semi team had got re-directed toward the development of Apple’s A and M chips.
 

Amethyst1

macrumors G3
Oct 28, 2015
9,370
11,514
[...] BMW, now with X1, X2, X3, X4, X5, X6, and X7 luxury utility models, as well as 1-series through 8-series car models — 6-series now excepted — and i-Series electric-only models).
<off-topic>
The new Eight supplants the Six, with the Six lineup now being reduced to the FUGLY Gran Tourismo configuration.
The old Eight ruled, so it's cool to see the legend return. It's a teeny-weeny bit out of my price range though.
</off-topic>
 
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lepidotós

macrumors 6502a
Aug 29, 2021
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a laptop produced by a company other than, say, Apple — fully capable of running not only Leopard, but also PowerPC iterations of FreeBSD and Linux.
I am now sad that that doesn't exist. Nor does, like, an 8641D laptop or the like. Especially if it had the same housing and keyboard as my G4, which is super comfortable and nice feeling for me.
Getting a bit off topic now, sorry.​
 

B S Magnet

macrumors 601
Original poster
<off-topic>
The new Eight supplants the Six, with the Six lineup now being reduced to the FUGLY Gran Tourismo configuration.
The old Eight ruled, so it's cool to see the legend return. It's a teeny-weeny bit out of my price range though.
</off-topic>

Yah, I still remember exactly where I was when I saw my first 8-series: visiting Baltimore in November 1994; it was parked on a side-street. The part I didn’t remember: I’m guessing it was an 840Ci. I’ve still yet to see an actual M1 (the original M1) in real life, but there’s little doubt I’ll never see one on a public street, given their museum value.

I do sort of wonder if or whether there might end up being an X8, because that’s the kind of thing they’d probably do, even if as a short run. :p

EDIT: I went to look it up, because I’d never seen a fastback 6-series before. Turns out there’s a reason why: it’s never been offered in North America. I love the form factor of hatchbacks and saloons estates, but like you, I’ve never warmed to BMW’s GT coupés — or Honda’s, for that matter. The only one I’ve seen here are the 5-series. Also, it turns out the 1-Series is no longer offered on this continent.

/off-topic!
 
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AlumaMac

macrumors 6502
Jan 25, 2018
372
705
The main reason Apple had so many different product lines (I.e. name creep) was because they were chasing profits. When Steve came back he shifted the focus to what the customer wants/needs. Thanks to the wild success of the iPhone, Apple is back to chasing profits.


(This omits, of course, the Xserve, which didn’t see the light of day beyond data centre racks and was an unfamiliar name for people who mostly knew of the iBook, iMac, MacBook, and MacBook Air.)

While the Xserve certainly wasn’t a consumer product, it was widely used beyond just data center duty. Many of my audio and video production clients had Xserves and Xserve RAIDs under their desks.
 
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