MP 7,1 New Mac Pro or not?

[MisterAndrew]

You cannot fit a W-3175X to a new Mac Pro. That's a Skylake chip. The 7,1 uses the Cascade Lake W-3200 series so you could possibly fit a W-3275. It may also be possible to fit one of the Cascade Lake Scalable processors.

Edit: Actually looking at PC motherboards for these CPUs many of them support both Skylake and Cascade Lake chips, so it might be possible to fit a Skylake chip to the 7,1, but it depends if the firmware supports it. I think it would be best to stick with Cascade Lake though since they have more hardware mitigations for security vulnerabilities built-in.

 

[thisisnotmyname]

You cannot fit a W-3175X to a new Mac Pro. That's a Skylake chip. The 7,1 uses the Cascade Lake W-3200 series so you could possibly fit a W-3275. It may also be possible to fit one of the Cascade Lake Scalable processors.

I think they meant as a machine they would build themselves on an off the shelf motherboard

If a custom mac pro ends up being too expensive, my alternative is to build a 3175x based machine and water cool it. Probably AIO, but maybe a custom loop.

Downside is losing the ability to use those sweet xdr displays.

I can't remember exactly what the protocol is but it's something over Thunderbolt 3 (I just woke up, someone can chime in ;-) ). I'm not aware of any commercial GPU with TB3 support native but you could probably route display port out to an add-in TB3 card and the TB3 to the XDR if that's important to you. Once it's released I'm sure someone will try and validate that's a possibility.

 

[bsbeamer]

Sonnet Thunderbolt 3 to Dual HDMI Adapter- 4K 60Hz - Mac and Windows Compatible

Suitable for Mac and Windows PCs: with the compact adaptor from Sonnet you can take two 4 K monitors to a thunderbolt 3-Port staking.The latest Thunderbolt 3 Product from Sonnet is a dual HDMI 2.0 Adapter. With this compact device that doesn't own Storm Supply Needed (Bus powered), you can take u...

www.amazon.com

Adapters like this exist. More will come very soon. TB3 is not proprietary. You might not LIKE the connection choice, but it is a standard and offered on both Mac and PC in some flavor

 

[McTaste]

Sonnet Thunderbolt 3 to Dual HDMI Adapter- 4K 60Hz - Mac and Windows Compatible

Suitable for Mac and Windows PCs: with the compact adaptor from Sonnet you can take two 4 K monitors to a thunderbolt 3-Port staking.The latest Thunderbolt 3 Product from Sonnet is a dual HDMI 2.0 Adapter. With this compact device that doesn't own Storm Supply Needed (Bus powered), you can take u...

www.amazon.com

Adapters like this exist. More will come very soon. TB3 is not proprietary. You might not LIKE the connection choice, but it is a standard and offered on both Mac and PC in some flavor

tb3 displays are uncommon enough that it might as well be proprietary. you do not find these ports on video cards from anyone except apple, currently, that i can find.

yes, you can adapt your way into it, but putting more devices / connections between display and gpu could end up causing problems.

 

[bsbeamer]

32UL950-W with TB3:

32” UltraFine™ UHD 4K Monitor - 32UL950-W | LG USA

Discover the 32” UltraFine™ UHD 4K Monitor that features HDR10 and AMD FreeSync™. Find reviews, specs, and more for 32UL950-W.

www.lg.com

34WK95U-W with TB3:

34" Class 21:9 UltraWide® 5K2K LED Monitor - 34WK95U-W | LG USA

Discover the 34" Class 21:9 UltraWide® 5K2K LED Monitor that features HDR 600 and Nano IPS Display. Find reviews, specs, and more for 34WK95U-W.

www.lg.com

CJ791 with TB3:

SAMSUNG 34” ViewFinity CJ79 Series Ultrawide QHD (3440x1440) Computer Monitor, 100Hz, Thunderbolt 3 Daisy Chain, QLED, HDMI, USB Hub, Height Adjustable Stand, LC34J791WTNXZA, White

With the Samsung 34-Inch CJ791 Ultrawide Curved Gaming Monitor (LC34J791WTNXZA)—the first curved monitor with Intel Thunderbolt 3 for single-source power and charging—you’ll be able to immerse yourself in your game or your work—and get more done while you’re at it. TBT3 offers 40 Gbps processing ...

www.amazon.com

TB3 is a standard. It's offered by several manufacturers for their latest monitors. Again, you don't have to LIKE the connection, or even like the Apple XDR Monitor for that matter. You can maybe even argue the price for TB3 monitors is awful or that the Apple XDR Monitor should have more port options. Those might be valid arguments.

Want to look at other reference monitors? For $18K you can get the DP-V2410, but you'll need HD-SDI outputs for true reference monitoring...

Canon DP-V2410 24" 4K Reference Display

Buy Canon DP-V2410 24" 4K Reference Display featuring 24" 4096 x 2160 10-Bit IPS LCD, Supports Cinema & Broadcast Frame Rates, 10-Bit DCI Color/Contrast Compliant, Canon Log and Log 2 HDR Support, Image Enhancement Functions, Camera Assist Tools, Internal 4K RAW De-Bayering, 1D/3D LUT Support...

www.bhphotovideo.com

If that's not available, most computers will need a DP > SDI converter box like this for $850+:

AJA DisplayPort to SDI Mini-Converter with ROI Scaling

Buy AJA DisplayPort to SDI Mini-Converter with ROI Scaling featuring Convert DisplayPort Signals to SDI, Select Region of Interest, Assign Scaling, Aspect Ratio, Frame-Rate, 2-Channel 3.5mm Separate Audio Input, 8-Channel DisplayPort Embedded Audio, Genlock Reference Input, DisplayPort...

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The MP7,1 isn't for everyone and neither is the XDR display, especially at those prices. But when you look at the market it's pretty clear this isn't a terrible bang for your buck.

 

[bob_stan]

The Mac Pro, while expensive and with the ability to expand far beyond what I will need, is my choice. I cannot afford to have a system go down with a problem that needs a trip to the apple store to fix - like a failed hard drive, bad memory, or a failed display. Its user serviceabilty is a major plus for me.

 

[ct2k7]

The Mac Pro, while expensive and with the ability to expand far beyond what I will need, is my choice. I cannot afford to have a system go down with a problem that needs a trip to the apple store to fix - like a failed hard drive, bad memory, or a failed display. Its user serviceabilty is a major plus for me.

The Mac Pro should offer this.

In terms of replacement.. though.. true. I don't know how the T2 chip takes to new devices if you try to install it yourself.

 

[bob_stan]

I wouldn't expect the T2 to have any impact except a change to the motherboard.

 

[ct2k7]

I wouldn't expect the T2 to have any impact except a change to the motherboard.

Storage is encrypted by the T2 chip, but at least in the recent Macs, T2 is also the storage controller.

 

[thisisnotmyname]

The Mac Pro, while expensive and with the ability to expand far beyond what I will need, is my choice. I cannot afford to have a system go down with a problem that needs a trip to the apple store to fix - like a failed hard drive, bad memory, or a failed display. Its user serviceabilty is a major plus for me.

Unless you are outside of major population centers and don't have access to an Apple Store I'd expect it would be faster to visit the Apple Store to get replacement parts. Unless you plan to have cold spares for those components you'd otherwise have to wait a day for shipping.

 

[bob_stan]

My applestore is 1.5 hours away. I was thinking particularly of an iMac or iMac Pro. I doubt you are going to walk into any Apple Store, have them diagnose a failed drive, and walk out with a fixed machine the same day.

 

[ct2k7]

Unless you are outside of major population centers and don't have access to an Apple Store I'd expect it would be faster to visit the Apple Store to get replacement parts. Unless you plan to have cold spares for those components you'd otherwise have to wait a day for shipping.

Even in a business sense... getting the damn thing replaced same day was nigh on impossible.

 

[thisisnotmyname]

My applestore is 1.5 hours away. I was thinking particularly of an iMac or iMac Pro. I doubt you are going to walk into any Apple Store, have them diagnose a failed drive, and walk out with a fixed machine the same day.

Understood. If you lose one of the SSDs in a Mac Pro you'll still have to get a replacement from Apple though (it's not a standard M.2) so you'll still either be sending someone to the Apple Store to get one from inventory (assuming they have one) or waiting to next day for FedEx to drop one off. RAM you could pick up elsewhere presuming a retailer near you stocks 2933 ECC sticks (or just remove the offending stick until the next one arrives tomorrow). Display you'll need to go back to Apple for another XDR (or use a different display while you wait for the replacement to arrive).

I get your point that you're less likely to have downtime than with an all in one chassis but I'd still expect to send someone physically to the Apple Store for replacement parts if one goes down. I'm not planning to warehouse cold spares for the units I pick up.

 

[bsbeamer]

Even when the cheese grater Mac Pro's were still being sold and Apple was making XSERVE units, spare parts were hard to come by same-day. Was the same with MP6,1's for many locations until the GPU recall. Apple stores throughout the east coast needed to order parts once they figured out the problem, if it even got that far. Often the techs were not very familiar with MP or XSERVE issues and it was a lengthy process if an issue was encountered.

Remember nearly bartering with Apple Geniuses for a loaner at a specific east coast location with a failed MP3,1 that needed new PSU and logic board. Never got it. The project was so important to the company I was working for, we bought another one while it was getting repaired. Drive sled & RAM was removed from the one to be serviced while in store. We took the only stock/base model they had available. All others needed 1-3 weeks for BTO.

 

[ct2k7]

Understood. If you lose one of the SSDs in a Mac Pro you'll still have to get a replacement from Apple though (it's not a standard M.2) so you'll still either be sending someone to the Apple Store to get one from inventory (assuming they have one) or waiting to next day for FedEx to drop one off. RAM you could pick up elsewhere presuming a retailer near you stocks 2933 ECC sticks (or just remove the offending stick until the next one arrives tomorrow). Display you'll need to go back to Apple for another XDR (or use a different display while you wait for the replacement to arrive).

I get your point that you're less likely to have downtime than with an all in one chassis but I'd still expect to send someone physically to the Apple Store for replacement parts if one goes down. I'm not planning to warehouse cold spares for the units I pick up.

I really hope they do not solder the damn thing or use a non standard SSD.

 

[bsbeamer]

I really hope they do not solder the damn thing or use a non standard SSD.

Doesn't look like it will be soldered, but likely is NOT standard NVMe. Should still be bootable by PCIe SSD or external even with T2. If they kill that function, I'm not sure the customer base will embrace.

 

[ct2k7]

View attachment 872359

Doesn't look like it will be soldered, but likely is NOT standard NVMe. Should still be bootable by PCIe SSD or external even with T2. If they kill that function, I'm not sure the customer base will embrace.

Looks like I'll have to be buying the config with ample storage then :/

 

[bsbeamer]

Everyone's case is different, but personal suggestion would be to leave the SSD provided by Apple for the OS and applications installed. Put almost everything else on "external" SSDs or media, either connected via PCIe or TB3 if you're working with a lot of data. Unless you're working on clearance-level encrypted scenarios, all drives can be encrypted with standard methods.

 

[deconstruct60]

Storage is encrypted by the T2 chip, but at least in the recent Macs, T2 is also the storage controller.

The T2 is only the storage controller for the directly attached NAND storage blades. If folks are hypersenstive to repair visits they can simply just place their production OS image and Data on some other internal drive. ( The default storage drive being 256GB makes that an easier option for some; since it is too small. ). Just put a maintenance boot image on the T2 storage in case have to ship in for major service and have a PCI-e slot based or SATA based production drive that can pull before send it in. The production drive would be in same modular category at the RAM DIMMs and display at that point.

If not throwing major workload at the T2 storage, then it is highly unlikely it will fail.
[automerge]1572036065[/automerge]

Looks like I'll have to be buying the config with ample storage then :/

Those blades are not SSDs. (pragmatically they are just the NAND chips 'half' of a functionally complete SSD. The T2 holds the 'brains' ; SSD controls. those are just 'dumb' cards. ). It is extremely unlikely that any third party is going to come up with replacements for those. Also highly unlikely that Apple is generally going to sell those as loose replacements on the general market. ( some shops that internally qualify as being Apple service providers for that company/location will probably get them but the general form factor doesn't mean commodity in any way. ) .

Those will very likely require a T2 pairing tool in conjunction with the part to get back to a serviceable Mac Pro.

It won't be a new motherboard cost to get a fix but it probably will be an Apple certified service provider to get a fix (plus cost of custom cards that only Apple has. Or limited boneyard market after systems get older and 'boneyard' spare parts market starts to grow. )
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....
Doesn't look like it will be soldered, but likely is NOT standard NVMe. Should still be bootable by PCIe SSD or external even with T2. If they kill that function, I'm not sure the customer base will embrace.

"Out of the box" it probably will not be bootable by PCIe SSD or external with the T2. The standard settings are not to external boot. That's why it is useful to have at least a minimal maintenance macOS instance on the T2. Just for a robust recovery boot context to change the security settings if somehow got set back to "out of the box" on a hard reset.

 

[kjohansen]

I do have the PC working again, I am not dissatisfied with the performance of the 3,1, I am just at point where software companies are writing for new o/s releases. In fact I cannot load the latest Photoshop on the Mac 3,1 I am stuck at the last released Photoshop in Adobe CC. I still stand that Windows 10 is too unstable for a work computer.. I am even looking into Linux that has Wine built in and can run windows applications like Photoshop and other things that I use the PC for. After looking at the new MP 7, they are moving to SSD drives, not super bad, but it is some kind of security built in and not sure I could get it to where I would like to organize the computer for work, I currently have 4 drives on my Mac, (system, photo, video and scratch, Photoshop likes to have its own disk for scratch, performs better that way)
[automerge]1572056159[/automerge]
Forget everything you know about memory.
A multicore workstation processor needs lots of memory to feed it. Featuring six channels of superfast ECC memory and 12 physical DIMM slots, the new Mac Pro allows for up to 1.5TB of memory. So pros working with large projects, analyzing huge data sets, or running multiple pro applications can make fast work out of all kinds of work. And while typical towers cram memory into hard-to-reach places, Mac Pro utilizes a two-sided logic board, making it easy to access.
Up to 2933MHz DDR4 ECC memory
Up to 140GB/s memory bandwidth
Six-channel memory system

I do like the memory slots on the MP 7
[automerge]1572056271[/automerge]
Eight PCI Express expansion slots. Go configure.
Mac Pro is designed for pros who need to build high-bandwidth capabilities into their systems. With four double-wide slots, three single-wide slots, and one half-length slot preconfigured with the Apple I/O card, it has twice as many slots as the previous Mac tower. Now you can customize and expand in ways never before possible in a single workstation.

I am assuming this means ONLY Apple approved PCiE cards..

 

[bsbeamer]

PS CC 2019 scratch works fine on nearly ANY SSD these days, sometimes is even better if your system drive is NVMe and you leave space available for scratch.

Almost all Adobe CC apps are cross platform with your subscription. Just deactivate one license/machine before switch.

MP7,1 will be able to house 4+ SSD drives via PCIe adapter or another method. Some already exist but Sonnett may have something tailor made for MP7,1.

 

[defjam]

Eight PCI Express expansion slots. Go configure.
Mac Pro is designed for pros who need to build high-bandwidth capabilities into their systems. With four double-wide slots, three single-wide slots, and one half-length slot preconfigured with the Apple I/O card, it has twice as many slots as the previous Mac tower. Now you can customize and expand in ways never before possible in a single workstation.

I am assuming this means ONLY Apple approved PCiE cards..

That is an incorrect assumption. If the card conforms to the PCIe specification it will work in the 7,1 Mac Pro. The only thing you'll have to be concerned with is if operating system drivers are provided.

Edit: Grammar

 

[deconstruct60]

That is an incorrect assumption. If the card confirms to the PCIe specification it will work in the 7,1 Mac Pro. The only thing you'll have to be concerned with is if operating system drivers are provided.

The PCIe specification is only 'half' of the pragmatic issue. You'll need working drivers (software) to complete the subsystem. PCIe mandates not much on the drivers because it is OS/firmware dependent on what is needed. Apple signs custom drivers, so they are substantively in the "approval" loop. ( don't need official Apple joint branding or sticker, but can't completely ignore their rules and objectives either. )

I wouldn't hold my breath than a random Inifiband EDR 100GB I/O card is going to "just work" if throw it into the new Mac Pro. It isn't just Apple in the loop either ( some PCIe vendors aren't going to do the driver work either due to the size of the Mac market and the work to adapt to macOS).


The Mac Pro's eight slots is probably going to more so allow more of the same cards that currently can be used ( external PCIe enclosures via Thunderbolt and legacy Mac Pro market ) than a bigger jump in new cards. ( Another PCIe SSD holder , another HDX , another AJA Kona card , etc. ) The driver coverage probably won't go up much in terms of kinds of hardware.

 

[McTaste]

32UL950-W with TB3:

32” UltraFine™ UHD 4K Monitor - 32UL950-W | LG USA

Discover the 32” UltraFine™ UHD 4K Monitor that features HDR10 and AMD FreeSync™. Find reviews, specs, and more for 32UL950-W.

www.lg.com

34WK95U-W with TB3:

34" Class 21:9 UltraWide® 5K2K LED Monitor - 34WK95U-W | LG USA

Discover the 34" Class 21:9 UltraWide® 5K2K LED Monitor that features HDR 600 and Nano IPS Display. Find reviews, specs, and more for 34WK95U-W.

www.lg.com

CJ791 with TB3:

SAMSUNG 34” ViewFinity CJ79 Series Ultrawide QHD (3440x1440) Computer Monitor, 100Hz, Thunderbolt 3 Daisy Chain, QLED, HDMI, USB Hub, Height Adjustable Stand, LC34J791WTNXZA, White

With the Samsung 34-Inch CJ791 Ultrawide Curved Gaming Monitor (LC34J791WTNXZA)—the first curved monitor with Intel Thunderbolt 3 for single-source power and charging—you’ll be able to immerse yourself in your game or your work—and get more done while you’re at it. TBT3 offers 40 Gbps processing ...

www.amazon.com

TB3 is a standard. It's offered by several manufacturers for their latest monitors. Again, you don't have to LIKE the connection, or even like the Apple XDR Monitor for that matter. You can maybe even argue the price for TB3 monitors is awful or that the Apple XDR Monitor should have more port options. Those might be valid arguments.

Want to look at other reference monitors? For $18K you can get the DP-V2410, but you'll need HD-SDI outputs for true reference monitoring...

Canon DP-V2410 24" 4K Reference Display

Buy Canon DP-V2410 24" 4K Reference Display featuring 24" 4096 x 2160 10-Bit IPS LCD, Supports Cinema & Broadcast Frame Rates, 10-Bit DCI Color/Contrast Compliant, Canon Log and Log 2 HDR Support, Image Enhancement Functions, Camera Assist Tools, Internal 4K RAW De-Bayering, 1D/3D LUT Support...

www.bhphotovideo.com

If that's not available, most computers will need a DP > SDI converter box like this for $850+:

AJA DisplayPort to SDI Mini-Converter with ROI Scaling

Buy AJA DisplayPort to SDI Mini-Converter with ROI Scaling featuring Convert DisplayPort Signals to SDI, Select Region of Interest, Assign Scaling, Aspect Ratio, Frame-Rate, 2-Channel 3.5mm Separate Audio Input, 8-Channel DisplayPort Embedded Audio, Genlock Reference Input, DisplayPort...

www.bhphotovideo.com

The MP7,1 isn't for everyone and neither is the XDR display, especially at those prices. But when you look at the market it's pretty clear this isn't a terrible bang for your buck.

Good finds. Which video cards have tb3 ports? I can find usbc ports, but those are lower bandwidth usb 3.1 rather than tb3.

( I also wont buy LG monitors anymore, but that is my problem...)

 

[defjam]

The PCIe specification is only 'half' of the pragmatic issue. You'll need working drivers (software) to complete the subsystem. PCIe mandates not much on the drivers because it is OS/firmware dependent on what is needed. Apple signs custom drivers, so they are substantively in the "approval" loop. ( don't need official Apple joint branding or sticker, but can't completely ignore their rules and objectives either. )

I wouldn't hold my breath than a random Inifiband EDR 100GB I/O card is going to "just work" if throw it into the new Mac Pro. It isn't just Apple in the loop either ( some PCIe vendors aren't going to do the driver work either due to the size of the Mac market and the work to adapt to macOS).


The Mac Pro's eight slots is probably going to more so allow more of the same cards that currently can be used ( external PCIe enclosures via Thunderbolt and legacy Mac Pro market ) than a bigger jump in new cards. ( Another PCIe SSD holder , another HDX , another AJA Kona card , etc. ) The driver coverage probably won't go up much in terms of kinds of hardware.

This is one of the issues facing the cMP, there are tons of PCIe cards which will physically / electrically install in it however there are no macOS drivers making them non-starters. Though it's likely most of those cards could be used by using them with Windows.