New York Attorney General Presses Apple and Google on Smartphone Thefts

[saud0488]

This is the dumbest statement ever. It's not their job but it is their responsibility to prevent people from using stolen merchandise. Look at the car industry. They have anti-theft systems where you can't hot wire the cars anymore because of a computer chip in the key. Wireless carriers and phone manufacturers need to work together to black list stolen phones so that they can never be used unless they goto the carrier to get it unlocked by providing proof of purchase and ID. Satellite providers have the capability to blacklist receivers, so if your receiver is stolen you can tell DirecTV or Dish and they will deactivate the receiver.

a "computer chip." in the key doesn't result in no thefts. It results in better thieves. Your so called "computer chips" in keys have been around for more then 10 years. My 2003 Civic had it. My cousin's 2013 lexus also has it. Didn't stop it from being stolen and gutted.

If anyone really thinks this will stop someone from stealing a phone, then they're very mistaken.

 

[AppleDude]

The Plot Thickens...

"...he would be 'especially concerned' if the companies...have benefited from increased sales of replacement devices."

Yes, Mr. AG, Apple's strategy was to create products so cool that it would further profit from their theft. Perhaps you should assess a fine payable to a victim's funds based on your estimate of this phenomenon

Most puzzling is how such comments don't impair an official's ability to keep his/her job! Obviously, it helps, or they would not issue such comments. Strange

 

[Ridge Racer]

Wrong. Thieves will learn quickly that the phones are being blacklisted and aren't usable. It means they can't sell it to anyone and they will stop trying to steal something they can't sell.

Not wrong.

Here in the UK, where there has been a Europe-wide, cross-network mobile phone blacklisting facility for many years phones are STILL stolen ALL THE TIME.

Blacklisting has not stopped thieves trying to steal phones at all.

Try again...

 

[phillipduran]

This is the dumbest statement ever. It's not their job but it is their responsibility to prevent people from using stolen merchandise. Look at the car industry. They have anti-theft systems where you can't hot wire the cars anymore because of a computer chip in the key. Wireless carriers and phone manufacturers need to work together to black list stolen phones so that they can never be used unless they goto the carrier to get it unlocked by providing proof of purchase and ID. Satellite providers have the capability to blacklist receivers, so if your receiver is stolen you can tell DirecTV or Dish and they will deactivate the receiver.

No, it's a completely intelligent statement.

It is not their responsibility to provide any anti theft deterrence or systems to recover stolen hardware. They might want to add that as a feature if people want to buy phones with that, but it is up to the producer if they want to add that. It sounds like the government wants to push the responsibility onto the producers and then they will likely pass laws REQUIRING anti theft devices which is lame. Let Apple design what they want and leave them alone.

 

[everything-i]

if my truck is stolen is Toyota responsible?

Depends if Toyota make it easy to take.

 

[CJK]

While smartphone thefts need attention, the NY AG sure seems to be interested in projects that seem rather silly. A smartphone is a fairly big deal considering the price (off contract), but does the NY AG really need to be involved?

The NY Attorney General's office has always been a stepping stone for those interested in higher (often national) office. Thus, the steady stream of these sorts of attention-grabbing announcements.

 

[jagolden]

May not be a responsibility; but as a good citizen they can do more to stop thefts and beatings that some thefts lead to.

Gee, maybe instead, the AG's could do something about thefts and beatings.

They don't have mandatory kill switches in cars, why have to implement in mobile phones?

 

[Plutonius]

I thought it was strange to see so many public officials placing so much pressure on Apple and Google to place antitheft protection on their smart phones. However, other companies have been doing this for years. For example, car companies used keys as an antitheft deterrent. Later on they introduced transponders. Find My iPhone does nothing to stop a thief from making an easy $400.

Keys and transponders only makes it harder for thieves to steal cars. It doesn't prevent them from stealing cars. It's still the responsibility of the owner to safeguard their car.

 

[ChrisA]

Apple make money every time an iPhone is stolen. Why would Apple want to spend money to change this? Seriously, every stolen iPhone that is recovered means one less replacement iPhone that Apple sells.

It would be trivial for Apple to make the iPhone not worth stealing. Many small CPUs have what they call "fuses". These are small one-time programable ROMs and they could burn a serial number in the the CPU. No amount of firmware re-loading could remove this Then the phone periodically sends in it's serial number. If the number is in the database, the phone also sends in it's location and desplays a message on the screen saying to return the phone to any Apple store.

 

[ski2moro]

This is just one more example of how New York lawmakers are so bizarre. They want to ban the sale of large size soft drinks, yet they want to make small amounts of pot legal. They have proposed restricting the sale of cigarettes to anyone under 21. (It's not illegal to smoke them, you just cannot BUY them.)

Just because something is a good idea is not a reason to make it a law.

 

[AppleDude]

Yes

if my truck is stolen is Toyota responsible?

If I were a NY AG, I might be tempted to say, "yes, if Toyota made cars so good enough for people to want to steal them, it should not profit for replacement sales"

Fortunately, I'm firing on all fours, so I'll leave Toyota to do what it does best.

 

[sid4life]

Pointless.

Can still be stripped for parts. LCD assembly alone is worth up to $250, let alone the rest of the untrackable parts.

 

[everything-i]

Not wrong.

Here in the UK, where there has been a Europe-wide, cross-network mobile phone blacklisting facility for many years phones are STILL stolen ALL THE TIME.

Blacklisting has not stopped thieves trying to steal phones at all.

Try again...

Totally true, leave a mobile phone on a pub table for 30 seconds in London and its gone, while your sitting there, you don't even notice who takes it. There are gangs of organised thieves here that could not care less about black listing databases.

 

[Millah]

Wrong. Thieves will learn quickly that the phones are being blacklisted and aren't usable. It means they can't sell it to anyone and they will stop trying to steal something they can't sell.

Or they'll just figure out a workaround and create a blackmarket for re-enabling blacklisted phones.

Solutions always seem so practical in theory, but in reality there's always going to be thousands of other variables you have to solve. Especially when it comes to behavioral things, you can't just simply legislate human behavior. Scummy people are always going to steal. And clever people will always figure out ways to workaround "deterrents."

 

[sickr1rider]

Easy Answer

If the find my iPhone would track by IMEI number or some other unique identifier it would fix the whole problem. The only problem is a thief can just restore the phone to factory and the tracing is gone. Why that hasn't been fixed or talked about more is beyond me. I would of loved to found the joker that stole mine in Vegas. I tracked it for a bit until it was restored.

 

[SmileyBlast!]

It's not the manufacturer's job to combat theft of their devices.

But they can disincentivise it. A lock down mode that goes into an extreme Low power consumption mode would help. The phone could randomly once an hour sends out a distress signal with its location.

Using Find my iPhone it would be great if you could put into that mode if your efforts to message or contact the phone and the person with it weren't working.

Only you could wake it up again once recovered with you Apple ID.

That way if it is shipped offshore it is still bricked and otherwise useless to thieves.

 

[jagolden]

Because the car manufacturers have adopted other measures that are effective deterrents of theft.

The phone manufacturers are creating a public nuisance if their product is the primary driver of theft and violence and the manufacturers could easily do something about it but choose to do nothing.

"effective deterrents of theft"? Ya, riiiiight.

 

[derek4484]

What?

How is it Apple's responsibility to combat theft? Maybe the device owner should pay better attention to it? Maybe the justice system should actually punish the thieves who break the law and steal the devices. Afterall, it is grand theft, a felony I believe. These devices have a value of $400-650 or more. Much higher than the limit to be considered petty larceny. But I'm sure these thieves get only a minor slap on the wrist, at most a small fine, if caught.

 

[afd]

Apple make money every time an iPhone is stolen. Why would Apple want to spend money to change this?

Seriously, every stolen iPhone that is recovered means one less replacement iPhone that Apple sells.

Was going to post this but you beat me to it. Replacement for stolen phones must be a significant proportion of phone sales. If apple has a database of locked to carrier phones how difficult would it be to extend that to stolen phones?

 

[ChrisA]

Not wrong.

Here in the UK, where there has been a Europe-wide, cross-network mobile phone blacklisting facility for many years phones are STILL stolen ALL THE TIME.

Blacklisting has not stopped thieves trying to steal phones at all.

Try again...

Yes you are right. A blacklist is not good enough. The phone need to be remotely disabled. One reported, the ONLY thing the phone can do is display a message "This phone has been permanently disabled."

No their could sell a phone with a display like that. The feature would have to be built into "write once" ROM that could never be reprogrammed. This kind os ROM is actually the lowest cost ROM.

 

[repoman27]

What is up with people posting that the auto industry has somehow implemented effective deterrents against theft? Cars still get stolen all the time.

A friend of mine had her car stolen by a crew that used a flatbed tow truck, stole the thing in broad daylight on a busy street, and nobody thought anything of it. By the time the police tracked it down at a chop shop, they had already parted most of it out and sold her security system!

The network operators are the ones who have the best ability to prevent the use of known stolen devices on their networks, and they should. However, that doesn't stop thieves from parting out the devices and selling the bits on eBay. Apple is being targeted here because they sell more volume of individual SKUs than their competitors.

 

[uptownnyc]

This is the dumbest statement ever. It's not their job but it is their responsibility to prevent people from using stolen merchandise. Look at the car industry. They have anti-theft systems where you can't hot wire the cars anymore because of a computer chip in the key. Wireless carriers and phone manufacturers need to work together to black list stolen phones so that they can never be used unless they goto the carrier to get it unlocked by providing proof of purchase and ID. Satellite providers have the capability to blacklist receivers, so if your receiver is stolen you can tell DirecTV or Dish and they will deactivate the receiver.

Yet the chip in the car key isn't legislated by any government body - it's a selling-point from the car's manufacturer that some have chosen to include, and adds considerable cost to each key. For many (all?) of the satellite providers, the boxes are rented - not owned, so they're doing it to protect themselves - not the consumer. I'm not saying it's not possible for some form of protection to be added to mobile devices - just that it shouldn't be legislated as mandatory.

 

[Earendil]

No, but it's the carriers responsibility to make stolen devices worthless. Hard to register a stolen car, make it hard/impossible to activate a stolen phone.

The government makes stolen cars hard to register, not the car companies. Your point actually makes the case for NY taking care of the problem themselves.

What year was your Maxima? New cars have anti-theft systems that prevent hot-wiring.

Nothing "prevents", but it might make it more difficult. It also doesn't make the car valueless, only makes it harder to start. What we're talking about is making a device no more than a paperweight, and where the legitimate owner has no control. With an anti-theft system that prevents hotwiring, no one is going to magic away my car keys.

Additionally, anti-theft on cars is an active system, and prevents the theft from starting. Bricking a phone is a reactive measure that does nothing to convince a thief from taking your phone. Read my next point below for why I think that is:

Wrong. Thieves will learn quickly that the phones are being blacklisted and aren't usable. It means they can't sell it to anyone and they will stop trying to steal something they can't sell.

What percentage of thefts are iphone targeted vs opportunity? Hypothetical situation, me robbing you in a dark ally:
"Freeze. Give me all your valuables or I"ll shoot you"
"Here is my wallet and my iphone! But know that I'm going to have the phone bricked as soon as you take it!"
Response #1: "Okay cheeky bastardo, I'm going to deprive you of it anyway"
Response #2: "Give it to me anyway, you won't be able to call the police 2 seconds after I leave"
Response #3: "What you're saying is that if I kill you it'll take the phone longer to be disabled?"

If the majority of stolen iPhones are not targeted and are only stolen because they are sitting next to a wallet, I'm really not sure how devaluing the phone is going to help.

Sneakers are not Internet connected devices with unique serial numbers and network identifiers.

And if Nike had the ability, tomorrow, to makes your shoes disintegrate off your feet, would you think that was cool? I wouldn't. I'd risk them being stolen, then risk them disappearing while I'm out for a jog or on a date.

 

[M-O]

No, but it's the carriers responsibility to make stolen devices worthless. Hard to register a stolen car, make it hard/impossible to activate a stolen phone.

It's not hard to drive a stolen car on the highway.

Do you suggest we should be bound by law to register our phone with the state every 4 years?

 

[thebeans]

You missed my point. Which is becoming quite common here on MR..

You need to consider that People delinquent and/or deperate enough to commit crimes of this sort, will often not be aware, or even care about the consequences of a database. I think, with respect that it is naive to state that "no ones phone is going to get stolen" as a result of the database.

Yes...., a database may stop the phone being sold, or maybe able to block it from use.

However, the original owner will still be lying in a pool of his own blood....and that was my main point.

A database is not going to stop a person being killed for their iPhone.

Many people here are missing the point. iPhones (and other phones) are stolen because they have VALUE to the thief. Thieves seldom mug people for their underwear, or their ballpoint pens. Why? Because they don't have any value to the thief. At first it would make no difference, but once word got around that a stolen phone would never work again, then the phone would have no value (or little value, it could still be sold for parts). Phone thefts would dramatically decline. This assumes of course, that manufacturers and carriers could come up with a nearly 100% effective way to brick stolen phones.