New York Attorney General Presses Apple and Google on Smartphone Thefts

[TruthWatcher412]

No, but it's the carriers responsibility to make stolen devices worthless. Hard to register a stolen car, make it hard/impossible to activate a stolen phone.

Apple and Google aren't carriers, Verizon/Sprint/TMobile etc are carriers

 

[Reasonable1]

Unfortunately, things get much more complicated when you realize it's possible to toss phones into a box and ship them to another country. This is a complex problem. If it were easy, someone would have a solution by now.

When I said ownership could be transferred just like car titles are transferred today, I didn't mean it had to literally work the same way. I mean it could conceptually work the same way. It could be as simple as only allowing the currently registered Apple ID to wipe the phone clean. If the thief doesn't wipe the phone clean and continues to use it, then Find My iPhone continues to work and the cops can track the phone down. If I want to sell my phone, I enter my Apple ID credentials to deregister the phone. That would be the ownership transfer process. This gives the next owner a clean phone they can register and begin to use and the cycle goes on.

Apple already requires an Apple ID to use brand new iPhones and iPhones that have been reset regardless of which country you're trying to use it in so this solution would address the problem of phones being shipped overseas as well.

 

[BaldiMac]

A database is NOT the same as disabling a phone.

I didn't say it was.

Apple could go even further. After a phone is reported stolen...
1) Display a message in the screen "Please retuen this phone to any Apple store"
2) Read out the GPS and send the phon'e location to Apple or the police
3) turn on the camera to photograph the person holding the phone
4) Display n the screen the current address and photo of the person and a notice saying both are sent to the police.
5) Announce over the speaker every 15 minutes loudly "Please return this lost phone". and then make some annoying sounds you can't disable

A database is an inert, passive thing but a smart phone can do stuff. It can do tuff that makes it so that no sane person would steal one because they would be tracked.

1) In the article I linked to, they pointed out that a phone's unique identifier is easily changed.
2) Such a system is ripe for abuse.
3) A bit too much like a corporation taking on police work for me.

Provide options for customers to take advantage of security features. Don't put more power in the hands of the government and corporations.

 

[E.Lizardo]

While smartphone thefts need attention, the NY AG sure seems to be interested in projects that seem rather silly. A smartphone is a fairly big deal considering the price (off contract), but does the NY AG really need to be involved?

This is how Elliot Spitzer got his start.As AG he made sure he was always sticking his(ahem)nose into national issues,great publicity as a faux crusader for the little guy.Then he ran for NY governor and won.Just imagine of we had fifty AGs playing that game!

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Yeah, I can't wait 'til the lowlifes of the world figure out how to throw the killswitch on other people's cell phones.

Great idea. Mr. Schneiderman. /sarcasm

Yes.Phones and macs have already been remote wiped by hackers using find my phone/mac.Well once I know of anyway.

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You obviously don't view the world through the eyes of a liberal.
Its ALWAYS someone elses fault.

Bingo!And shocked at the upvotes on this forum!

 

[MegamanX]

I didn't say it was.



1) In the article I linked to, they pointed out that a phone's unique identifier is easily changed.
2) Such a system is ripe for abuse.
3) A bit too much like a corporation taking on police work for me.

Provide options for customers to take advantage of security features. Don't put more power in the hands of the government and corporations.

yes it can be changed but most do not have it changed.
Also Apple is not doing anything to make the devices useless nor are the carriers.

Carriers blacklist the IMEI
Apple could easily blacklist it as well. A blacklisted device would be banned from using any of Apple services. That means no app store, no icloud, no iMessage ect. it is a banned device. Hell one step farther is they could go to iTunes and prevent anything from even being transfered to a black listed device but that is more work. Banning them from all the services would be good enough.

The argument that it can be changed or gotten around is never a good one. Increasing the difficulty to try to make it not worth it generally a good idea. The argument you are using is like well we can not stop people from murdering someone else so we should not try.

 

[Rocko1]

Apple and Google aren't carriers, Verizon/Sprint/TMobile etc are carriers

 

[0dev]

No, but it's the carriers responsibility to make stolen devices worthless. Hard to register a stolen car, make it hard/impossible to activate a stolen phone.

They already do that, but that doesn't stop people from shipping the phones off to other countries where they still work fine. It's a good measure but that alone is not enough.

 

[WordMasterRice]

New York Attorney General Presses Apple and Google on Smartphone Thefts

This is the dumbest statement ever. It's not their job but it is their responsibility to prevent people from using stolen merchandise. Look at the car industry. They have anti-theft systems where you can't hot wire the cars anymore because of a computer chip in the key. Wireless carriers and phone manufacturers need to work together to black list stolen phones so that they can never be used unless they goto the carrier to get it unlocked by providing proof of purchase and ID. Satellite providers have the capability to blacklist receivers, so if your receiver is stolen you can tell DirecTV or Dish and they will deactivate the receiver.

I think you and a lot of others are confused here with the car analogy. Cars with anti-theft devices actually prevent the car from being stolen, not render it inoperable after its already stolen. This does not stop a phone from being stolen, it just pisses a thief off slightly after they do (not that that is a bad thing lol). Smartphones still have a lot of functionality without a wireless provider, it's no different than stealing an iPod touch.

Unless you literally chain the phone to the owner you aren't going to "prevent" smartphone thefts, just making them slightly less valuable.

What are jewelers doing to prevent the theft of diamond rings?

 

[Rocko1]

They already do that, but that doesn't stop people from shipping the phones off to other countries where they still work fine. It's a good measure but that alone is not enough.

You are saying 100% of stolen iPhones in the US have to be shipped overseas in order to work? I don't think so.

 

[0dev]

You are saying 100% of stolen iPhones in the US have to be shipped overseas in order to work? I don't think so.

If the IMEI has been blacklisted then yes.

 

[Peter K.]

I think you and a lot of others are confused here with the car analogy. Cars with anti-theft devices actually prevent the car from being stolen, not render it inoperable after its already stolen. This does not stop a phone from being stolen, it just pisses a thief off slightly after they do (not that that is a bad thing lol). Smartphones still have a lot of functionality without a wireless provider, it's no different than stealing an iPod touch.

Unless you literally chain the phone to the owner you aren't going to "prevent" smartphone thefts, just making them slightly less valuable.

What are jewelers doing to prevent the theft of diamond rings?

Actually, there ARE anti-carjacking systems available; the car disables itself shortly after being carjacked and sounds a siren or the horn and flashes headlights, taillights, etc.

 

[BaldiMac]

Actually, there ARE anti-carjacking systems available; the car disables itself shortly after being carjacked and sounds a siren or the horn and flashes headlights, taillights, etc.

That was his point.

 

[Boomish69]

It's not the manufacturer's job to combat theft of their devices.

Thats such a pass the buck phrase, so if you step over someone bleeding on the payment it's not you job to help them as your not a medic?
Isn't one of Apple greatest assets about making the world a better place, about being green with it's design about making things beautiful?
What's beautiful about someones father getting killed for a bloody phone!! when it must be technically possible to track, trace and disable it!

Apple should lead the way, imagine how safer you would feel if your kids had an iPhone and you knew the risk of then getting mugged or killed for it was lower because it can't be used as a stolen phone. I'm sure there is something Apple could do to make it a lot lot harder for people to re-use a stolen phone. If the motherboard could be made useless by a unique identifier ..

But then who gives a toss...obviously not everyone..

 

[jimbobb24]

Typical government official. See dealing with criminals is hard, so in order to show constituents you are "doing something" you publish open letters trying to intimidate businesses. When I lived in Minneapolis there were ads on tv every night with scary cops threatening to arrest me for not buckling my seat belt. It is always easier to go after honest citizens than scary criminals. Sad sad world where people cheer on these demagogues.

 

[617aircav]

Actually it is against the law to profit off of illegal activity, so you could argue that carriers are already breaking the law by allowing stolen phones back on to their network. It's really just due diligence to make an attempt to see if the phone was reported stolen.
In my town if someone brings a bicycle or car into a reseller they are required to check the part# for the bicycle or the VIN for a car against a police database and report it if it's found to be stolen, why not a $400+ phone? It's the 21st century, not a difficult thing to implement.

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It takes 10min to transfer AppleCare when I sell my old MAC, a carrier could easily have a transfer of ownership webpage that does the same thing. Plus it's technically illegal to buy or sell stolen merchandise so it protects both the seller and the buyer. All for 10-15min of your life, sounds like a reasonable trade to me.



Higher cost of keys, or significantly greater chance of having my car stolen and my insurance going up... hmmm let me see...

Name a carrier that allows a phone that has been reported stolen to it on their network.

 

[etrinh]

Do you ever wonder how much resources it will take to implement what you outlined? It's great to offer up ideas but to show how the idea can be implemented is another matter.

Should we have a registered database with the Govt when we buy our phones? Then do we tell the govt when we transfer title of our phones? A manufacturer that imposes such policy has to pay for it somehow. It may actually backfire and cost them sales of new devices thus being a money losing proposition. You would readily buy a device that tracks your location? And keeps this information somewhere where law enforcement can find it? You are proposing a nanny state where we will be monitored by whom ever has access to it. What makes you believe that the govt is so trustworthy we should let them know where we are 24/7?

The other anti-theft ideas are a bit more down to earth. I think the device should have a VIN like features. I also like the alarm idea, where you cannot shut down the phone until it runs out of its own battery. I prefer to have a password tied to shutdown process where you cannot shutdown your device without it. I cannot agree with you on the tracking and GPS monitoring and other privacy invasive ideas you proposed.

People need to take personal responsibility for his/her own actions. Stop using your flashy phone in public? Unless you want to fight a possible theft, please use your device smartly. You have a right to not be accosted but that person who steals from you and infringes on your right is the thief. Not Apple. Not the cell companies.

If I had it my way, I would make sure everyone owns a weapon and they should use it when threatened. Let see how the criminals respond when the whole country and its citizens are armed for self defense.

It's so easy to blame the big companies but so hard to take actions into our own hands because the govt won't give us the power to defend ourselves against these types of crimes.

Quite a lot. They stampped the VIN on the car in many places. So much so that it can't be resold as a car. It's only use is to be cut up for parts. You were unlucky but over all car theft is way down from what it was.

The same could apply to phones they could be made such that a stolen phone could never again be used as a phone. But the LCD screen of cource could be used for repair of a broken phone. We'd still see phones striped for parts but theft woud be very much reduced to the point were it is rare.

The car companies have done a lot and it's working. I've had three cars stolen but that is just luck. over all those anti-theft devices (like VINs) work.

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A database is NOT the same as disabling a phone.

Apple could go even further. After a phone is reported stolen...
1) Display a message in the screen "Please retuen this phone to any Apple store"
2) Read out the GPS and send the phon'e location to Apple or the police
3) turn on the camera to photograph the person holding the phone
4) Display n the screen the current address and photo of the person and a notice saying both are sent to the police.
5) Announce over the speaker every 15 minutes loudly "Please return this lost phone". and then make some annoying sounds you can't disable

A database is an inert, passive thing but a smart phone can do stuff. It can do tuff that makes it so that no sane person would steal one because they would be tracked.

My Macbook is currently programmed to do several of the above things. However it would be easy to turn this off by reformatting the disk. A phone could be made with the above described security features permanently burned into non erasable memory.


But why would Apple do this. They make money from iPhone theft. I don't see Apple having any motivation to do this.

 

[iGrip]

I'm opposed to the killswitch idea. There are no killswitches on cars, but they are stolen every day. There are no killswitches on currency, and yet wallets are a huge "theft problem".

Killswitches on phones are prone to abuse by the government. I don't want one on my phone.

 

[MegamanX]

Name a carrier that allows a phone that has been reported stolen to it on their network.

At&t, t mobile. Gsm block sims but not phone.

 

[Jimmy James]

It seems to me that cash is still a higher target. Why not hold the currency makers responsible for the theft of money?

 

[marksman]

It's not the manufacturer's job to combat theft of their devices.

Yeah it actually is. Especially when there are things they can do that would make a dramatic difference.

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No matter what anti-theft features Apple adds to an iPhone, they won't stop the phone from being stolen in the first place. Only AFTER stealing the phone will the thief find out whether the anti-theft features were activated. By then, its too late, the theft and possible assault has been done. No thief is going to return it to the victim when they discover the phone is unusable.

In fact, it may promote further violence as the thief forces the owner to reveal the phones security code.

The only thing Apple could do to make their products less desirable to thieves is to make them less desirable to everyone.

No. Once thieves learn iPhones have no value stolen they will stop stealing them. It is fairly simple.

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Where was this political action against a company like Nike when media outlets reported kids being killed/robbed for their Air Jordans or Sony with Walkmans back in the day? This smacks of a heavy handed response to a situation and political opportunism to me. Just another cheap and easy headline.

Shoes don't let themselves to features that would be able to make them non functioning if stolen.

I don't know if people don't read, don't understand or are just making horrible analogies because they enjoy it.

Your post demonstrates a total lack of understanding of the issues.

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While I agree, it's difficult for a company to say "It's not really our problem" without coming across as arrogant ******s.

I'd assume that the majority of professionally stolen iPhones (ones that are specifically targeted, not just a crime of opportunity) are immediately shut down and wiped within 24-48 hours, at most. They're given new IMEI numbers by the thieves and shipped overseas.

Chances of recovering a stolen phone in these circumstances has to be really low anyway, and by adding a way to remotely & permanently disable a phone, Apple & Google are opening themselves up to a whole different set of problems. I could see a class action lawsuit happening against Apple because a few people accidentally got their phones bricked.

Unlikely. Owners of the phone have the data so a bricking would be a minor inconvenience at best. Since people are being killed and it is possible to make these devices significantly less attractive for thieves there is not a good reason not to do it. Including a few people being inconvenienced.

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lol, does he want apple to start it's own police? i always thought it was the police's job to take care of crimes - and last time i've checked, theft was a crime...

It is amazing how many people in this thread don't comprehend the issue here. This has to be close to an all time high for comprehension failure.

Nobody is asking apple to be the police. They are asking to make reasonable additions to their devices that would make them less likely to be stolen and/or easy to recover.

More than half the posts are like yours. Clearly showing you do not even understand what is being asked for here. This is not freaking twitter. If you are not going to read the source material at least read the Mac rumors news story summary before posting.

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And why exactly does Apple need to do something here? It's not their responsibility to implement systems to investigate where stolen property goes or to remote wipe anything.

Actually yes apple shouid feel a responsibility to do something when it is something they can easily do and it could prevent their customers from being robbed and killed.

I feel like it is April fools day with all the ignorant posts in this thread.

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You missed my point. Which is becoming quite common here on MR..

You need to consider that people delinquent and/or desperate enough to commit crimes of this sort, will often not be aware, or even care about the consequences of a database. I think, with respect that it is naive to state that "no ones phone is going to get stolen" as a result of the database.

Yes...., a database may stop the phone being sold, or maybe able to block it from use.

However, the original owner will still be lying in a pool of his own blood....and that was my main point.

A database is not going to stop a person being killed for their iPhone.

Yes it ultimately will. People will lean they are worthless. Nobody said it was going to eliminate all robbery , theft and murder but it will certainly impact the number of attempts by a large amount.

 

[617aircav]

At&t, t mobile. Gsm block sims but not phone.

You can't use a blacklisted phone on either carrier. They both share a database of blacklisted phones, rendering those phones unusable in the USA.

 

[macs4nw]

It's not the manufacturer's job to combat theft of their devices.

No, it's not their legal obligation of course, but because their are many technological options available to decimate the theft problem, in my opinion they have a moral obligation to incorporate such features.

I'm sure, if the political will existed, there's no technical reason why these devices couldn't be made useless to would-be thieves. Cell-enabled devices have an IMEI number that, given cooperation amongst ALL providers, could be blacklisted, rendering all of them useless to potential thieves.

In addition, all these devices, plus all wifi devices as well as iPods need to be recharged to work; this could be restricted to those who have the 'unique code' to do this. It would, for the sake of legitimate re-sales, require a central registry, but with thieves knowing these devices to be virtually 'useless' when stolen, it might all but eliminate those kinds of 'snatch & dash' thefts. Arguably, a minor inconvenience to legitimate users, that in the end would be well worth it.

I hate government red-tape as much as the next guy, but APPLE or SAMSUNG et all, aren't going to do this on their own, this almost certainly would require congressional intervention.

 

[h4lp m3]

A national stolen phone database that was rolled out recently has reportedly had little effect on smartphone thefts.

1. That's because nobody really cares about recovering stolen phones: NO ONE.
Cell phone companies profit when you buy a new one. The database is just a front to harvest data and track users.

District attorney Georce Gascón said he was 'underwhelmed' by Apple's response.

Good for Apple, I wouldn't help you either build your data center either.

 

[Giuly]

+1 on Gascón.

 

[Tech198]

Killed? Wow... If there that bad, would just stealing one be better .. A least we all stay alive.

Erasing remotely by the user is NOT the answer since people won't always do it.

Mobile carriers/or Apple themselves should have capability by the mobile carrier when people report this. This way, it WILL be done.