No recovery partition on 2017 iMac with Sierra. Will High Sierra upgrade create one?

[EugW]

Hi. When I transitioned from my 2010 iMac to my 2017 iMac, I did a straight clone after a reformat, and I currently have no recovery partition on the 2017 iMac. I could boot to internet recovery but what about putting in a recovery partition? Do you think it's necessary, and if so, would it be automatically installed when I switch to High Sierra this month?

I'm thinking of switching to APFS BTW.

 

[Apple_Robert]

It will be installed when installing High Sierra, if you want to wait for the release. If not, you can go the recovery route method you mentioned.

If you have solid backups, I would just wait, if I were in your Mac shoes.

 

[EugW]

It will be installed when installing High Sierra, if you want to wait for the release. If not, you can go the recovery route method you mentioned.

If you have solid backups, I would just wait, if I were in your Mac shoes.

Thanks. I'd be upgrading, not doing a fresh install, if that makes a difference.

 

[scgf]

Yes, It appears installing/upgrading to High Sierra sorts out a plethora of issues, including correctly creating the recovery partition.

 

[EugW]

It turns out I have no choice for the file format. It will be APFS as the drive is a 1 TB SSD.

Maybe it’s time to invest in Carbon Copy Cloner for backups. That’s the only third party software available that works with APFS. I will see if 10.13’S Disk Utility can do it though.

 

[SaSaSushi]

Maybe it’s time to invest in Carbon Copy Cloner for backups. That’s the only third party software available that works with APFS. I will see if 10.13’S Disk Utility can do it though.

I highly recommend it. I just used CCC to restore Sierra since I was having some problems with the High Sierra GM candidate and I've decided to wait for the final release.

One of CCCs great features is the ability to clone recovery partitions.

 

[EugW]

I highly recommend it. I just used CCC to restore Sierra since I was having some problems with the High Sierra GM candidate and I've decided to wait for the final release.

One of CCCs great features is the ability to clone recovery partitions.

I had an older version of CCC that works fine with HFS+, but my comment was more about CCC 5 for APFS. CCC5's support for High Sierra APFS only arrived a few days ago, so I'm still a little bit wary. It will be updated for the year, but I was thinking maybe just letting others test it for the next several weeks.

 

[SaSaSushi]

I had an older version of CCC that works fine with HFS+, but my comment was more about CCC 5 for APFS. CCC5's support for High Sierra APFS only arrived a few days ago, so I'm still a little bit wary. It will be updated for the year, but I was thinking maybe just letting others test it for the next several weeks.

I'm using CCC V5. I just bought the new version. However, I haven't used it to back up an APFS disk yet. I will do so as soon as High Sierra is officially released.

Even CCC 4 can support creating bootable backups of APFS disks to HFS+ volumes but CCC 5 supports bootable backups to APFS volumes as well as support for APFS encryption.

Full details on CCC's APFS support here.

 

[jbarley]

It turns out I have no choice for the file format. It will be APFS as the drive is a 1 TB SSD.

What do you mean by "have no choice"?
Is it the size of the SSD that dictates the format?
I installed the GM onto my Kingston HyperX PCIe SSD and it's formatted "Mac OS Extended (Journaled)", runs like a champ.

 

[EugW]

What do you mean by "have no choice"?
Is it the size of the SSD that dictates the format?
I installed the GM onto my Kingston HyperX PCIe SSD and it's formatted "Mac OS Extended (Journaled)", runs like a champ.

If it’s a Mac with a built in Apple SSD, the installer will simply format it as APFS. In fact, I had an HFS+ Sierra MacBook which I upgraded to High Sierra. I was given no file system options and at the end of the install, the file system had been converted to APFS. Since it was not a clean install but an upgrade, my accounts and user data were still intact, but there was no more HFS+.

 

[jbarley]

If it’s a Mac with a built in Apple SSD, the installer will simply format it as APFS. In fact, I had an HFS+ Sierra MacBook which I upgraded to High Sierra. I was given no file system options and at the end of the install, the file system had been converted to APFS. Since it was not a clean install but an upgrade, my accounts and user data were still intact, but there was no more HFS+.

The lack of user choice regards format is presumptuous on Apples part and sucks big time.

 

[EugW]

I guess if you really wanted to you could install it on an external drive as HFS+ and then clone it over. But yeah it seems odd to have to resort to this just for your choice of file system.

 

[SaSaSushi]

While I can't argue that users should be given a choice, I wonder why anyone wouldn't want to upgrade to APFS with its vastly improved performance, data integrity and deep support for encryption, especially with SSDs. HFS+ is long in the tooth at this point.

 

[EugW]

While I can't argue that users should be given a choice, I wonder why anyone wouldn't want to upgrade to APFS with its vastly improved performance, data integrity and deep support for encryption, especially with SSDs. HFS+ is long in the tooth at this point.

Well, people have been having weird bugs with encrypted APFS drives, and also, some third party software seem to like HFS+ better right at the moment.

The other thing there is no way to read APFS from a Windows machine, if that matters to you.

 

[jbarley]

While I can't argue that users should be given a choice, I wonder why anyone wouldn't want to upgrade to APFS with its vastly improved performance, data integrity and deep support for encryption, especially with SSDs. HFS+ is long in the tooth at this point.

Lack of support for some apps I'm not willing to give up on at the present...

HFS+ is long in the tooth at this point.

At 80+ years so am I, making me all the more determined to stick with "what just works".

 

[SaSaSushi]

Well, people have been having weird bugs with encrypted APFS drives, and also, some third party software seem to like HFS+ better right at the moment.

Lack of support for some apps I'm not willing to give up on at the present...

I see. That makes sense although that sounds like the regular situation with a new version of MacOS period.

 

[EugW]

Lack of support for some apps I'm not willing to give up on at the present...

I'm curious. Which applications?

 

[jbarley]

I'm curious. Which applications?

My main goto apps "iFileX" and "FindAnyFile" used every day multiple times for quickly finding and deleting every part of an Application I want gone, for quickly finding and pointing to the location of the contents of files and applications I'm modifying parts of etc.
There are others not as important but still needed such as "LiteIcon" for changing the gaudy folder icon colors that Apple insists on feisting upon us.
Most of these Apps will eventually catch up and when they do maybe I'll rethink APFS.

 

[scgf]

I was reading some FAQs on the Carbon Copy Cloner website and apparently the recovery partition doesn't show up when you hold the option key on bootup. It's there, but is somehow incorporated into the High Sierra apfs container in a different way than before and is accessed by holding command-r during boot-up.

 

[Fishrrman]

SaSa wrote:
"While I can't argue that users should be given a choice, I wonder why anyone wouldn't want to upgrade to APFS with its vastly improved performance, data integrity and deep support for encryption, especially with SSDs. HFS+ is long in the tooth at this point."

Count me as one of those with no interest in APFS.
I have older apps and utilities that almost certainly will break with APFS.
And, I'm just comfortable with the way HFS+ works (for me).

Old saying:
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it".

HFS+ isn't "broke" for me.
I'll use it as long as I can.
I'll also try your "workaround" (in post 12 above) regarding "force-installing" HighSierra onto an HFS+ SSD (if necessary).

When they get all the bugs worked out, then I may try APFS -- but not yet.
That's just me.

 

[adrianlondon]

In my opinion, there isn't much in High Sierra apart from APFS. So if you don't want APFS just stay on Sierra.

If you want the new Safari features you can get Safari 11 (think it's still in beta) on Sierra.

 

[EugW]

In my opinion, there isn't much in High Sierra apart from APFS. So if you don't want APFS just stay on Sierra.

If you want the new Safari features you can get Safari 11 (think it's still in beta) on Sierra.

You can’t download images and videos from recent iPhones on Sierra if you want to use the space saving next gen file formats. They save roughly 30-40% space so there is a strong incentive to use them too. This is a standard feature that will be introduced this coming Tuesday with iOS 11’s release.

Well, actually you can download the files to Sierra but they are completely unreadable by any Apple software in Sierra. 10.13 High Sierra is required just to read the files.

I’d say that’s a pretty big deal... so much so that High Sierra represents one of the most important upgrades in years IMO.

 

[adrianlondon]

You can’t download images and videos from recent iPhones on Sierra if you want to use the space saving next gen file formats.

Turn on "Automatic" under "Transfer to Mac or PC". Sure, that means you don't get the new format files on your Sierra Macbook (as they'll be reformatted to jpg or whatever) but I don't think the space saving is so important on a laptop.

 

[EugW]

Turn on "Automatic" under "Transfer to Mac or PC". Sure, that means you don't get the new format files on your Sierra Macbook (as they'll be reformatted to jpg or whatever) but I don't think the space saving is so important on a laptop.

Of course space savings are desirable in a laptop, and usually much more so than a desktop. Furthermore the Photos app can’t download them in Sierra.

Also you won’t be able to read the files if someone else sends them to you. Also, if someone iMessages you a Live Photo, you won’t even receive it. You’ll get a still JPEG with no motion component.

 

[adrianlondon]

I guess I'm influenced by having a 6S which won't create HEIF files anyway