Resolved NVMe SSD Unbootable When in APFS Format?

[Random Fe]

Relevant Specs:
- I have a early 2009 Mac Pro flashed to 5,1
- I run a single Xeon X5680
- I have two hard drives in my system:
-- My boot drive is a Crucial P1 NVMe SSD (500GB capacity) connected with an adapter to a x4 PCIe slot.
-- I had an old HDD as a backup drive in a SATA bay.
- I have an RX 580 and the original EFI GPU.

I recently tried to upgrade my Mac Pro to Mojave from High Sierra as I had recently upgraded my Wi-Fi to be compatible. The BootROM upgrade (from 140.0.0.0 to 144.0.0.0) went with no hitches at all. I ran the Mojave installer to install the actual OS and everything seemed to be going perfectly. When it was finished, Mojave booted up, Wi-Fi was working, and I set up some settings. However, my Messages would refuse to login. No biggy I thought, let's try a Restart. The Mac performed the Restart, but Messages still didn't work. I shut the machine fully off, did an NVRAM reset, and tried booting again. Black screen... I waited for a good 10 minutes, and nothing. I held the power button to shut it off, slot in my EFI GPU and, as you'd expect, I was at the Recovery menu. I tried manually setting my boot drive to my NVMe SSD. I try to boot again, and it gets stuck at the Apple logo. I end up restoring from a Time Machine backup that I had and went back to High Sierra. Everything worked fine in High Sierra: booting, restarting, Messages.

I remember a few months back I had tried to upgrade my NVMe drive, from the Recovery menu, to APFS. With that upgrade, I couldn't boot to High Sierra, and had to restore from a backup to make it bootable again. I think there is a pattern.

Is there an incompatibility with APFS, not Mojave, and my particular NVMe SSD? Is there anything I can do to fix it? It's really odd that it survived a Restart but not a full Shut Down and Power On. I would purchase a SATA SSD to avoid this headache, but prices aren't really sane right now. I feel like this NVMe SSD was a waste of time and money. Any help is appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

[tsialex]

Weird problems like yours usually have more than just one cause.

NVMe + APFS:

Some NVMe drives have firmware problems when used with APFS and 512KB sector size, some Crucial and WD drives are confirmed by more than one user to have the problem you report. Your NVMe drive model being one that very few people have and that some people reported weird problems could be the cause. You should fully erase your NVMe drive and do a clean install of Mojave via createinstallmedia USB drive create from the 10.14.6 Mac App Store full installer to confirm that it don't really work correctly. Another good test would be to do a clean install of Mojave with another drive, even an HDD and use it for some time, if it works besides Messages, you confirmed that your problem is related to the Crucial P1.

Message authentication problems:

Messages working with High Sierra and not working with Mojave is a very clear signal that your Fsys store inside the NVRAM volume is corrupt or missing hardwareIDs. The NVRAM volume is stored alongside the EFI firmware in the same SPI flash memory that contains your BootROM.

Apple started more strict Messages authentication validations with Mojave and since the authentication is made remotely by Apple using the hardwareIDs that personalise your Mac Pro , the only thing that you can do is to use High Sierra from now on, or repair your BootROM. You can replace the backplane or pay someone capable to reconstruct your BootROM to repair it.

It's not a process that a user can do, only firmware engineers that know the Apple EFI firmware intricacies are capable to do it. There are several checksums and free space indicators to be corrected and it's not just adding the missing info to the correct places. Wrong checksums make your Mac Pro not bootable.

 

[Random Fe]

@tsialex, thank you so much for your help! You are always very informative.

NVMe + APFS:

Some NVMe drives have firmware problems when used with APFS and 512KB sector size, some Crucial and WD drives are confirmed by more than one user to have the problem you report. Your NVMe drive model being one that very few people have and that some people reported weird problems could be the cause. You should fully erase your NVMe drive and do a clean install of Mojave via createinstallmedia USB drive create from the 10.14.6 Mac App Store full installer to confirm that it don't really work correctly. Another good test would be to do a clean install of Mojave with another drive, even an HDD and use it for some time, if it works besides Messages, you confirmed that your problem is related to the Crucial P1.

Ok. I plan to take a backup and do the clean install as suggested, perhaps sometime later this week. I'll remove the HDD and keep just the NVMe SSD inside to make sure I don't overwrite my backups. If it doesn't boot, then I guess we have our issue. I could partition my Time Machine HDD to install Mojave to complete the other test if necessary.

Message authentication problems:

Messages working with High Sierra and not working with Mojave is a very clear signal that your Fsys store inside the NVRAM volume is corrupt or missing hardwareIDs. The NVRAM volume is stored alongside the EFI firmware in the same SPI flash memory that contains your BootROM.

Apple started more strict Messages authentication validations with Mojave and since the authentication is made remotely by Apple using the hardwareIDs that personalise your Mac Pro , the only thing that you can do is to use High Sierra from now on, or repair your BootROM. You can replace the backplane or pay someone capable to reconstruct your BootROM to repair it.

It's not a process that a user can do, only firmware engineers that know the Apple EFI firmware intricacies are capable to do it. There are several checksums and free space indicators to be corrected and it's not just adding the missing info to the correct places. Wrong checksums make your Mac Pro not bootable.

I read another reply you made in regards to this subject and feared I may have it as well. Seems like this, unfortunately, may be a possibility. If I get Mojave on the HDD working and see Messages is still broken, then I guess I'll just resign to High Sierra. I've put in quite a bit of money in this machine over the past year and I'll probably upgrade to a Mac Mini config and sell this one if I discover this problem.

Thank you for ensuring that I don't do this process myself as bricking the Mac Pro would be a nightmare.

Thank you so much for your help, I will keep you updated!

 

[tsialex]

@tsialex, thank you so much for your help! You are always very informative.



Ok. I plan to take a backup and do the clean install as suggested, perhaps sometime later this week. I'll remove the HDD and keep just the NVMe SSD inside to make sure I don't overwrite my backups. If it doesn't boot, then I guess we have our issue. I could partition my Time Machine HDD to install Mojave to complete the other test if necessary.



I read another reply you made in regards to this subject and feared I may have it as well. Seems like this, unfortunately, may be a possibility. If I get Mojave on the HDD working and see Messages is still broken, then I guess I'll just resign to High Sierra. I've put in quite a bit of money in this machine over the past year and I'll probably upgrade to a Mac Mini config and sell this one if I discover this problem.

Thank you for ensuring that I don't do this process myself as bricking the Mac Pro would be a nightmare.

Thank you so much for your help, I will keep you updated!

Focus on your problems to boot, after you solved that, probably with another NVMe drive model, you look at the Mojave hardwareID problems.

No sense to worry with it now, since it's something that you can't repair yourself unless replacing the whole backplane.

 

[kohlson]

Just checking - I have a similar config, but with HP EX920. Boots 10.14.6. I still have the original BT-only card - no wi-fi.

At some point after upgrading firmware, Messages stopped working. It sort of worked. I could see messages up to a point. I tried a few things (logging out of Everything Apple) and then said "meh" I have a laptop right next to it.

But then, after awhile I could no longer download updates of any kind from the App Store.

So I reset the NVRAM. Might have done the SMC, too. Not only was the App Store enabled, but Messages started to work.

A long shot, but easy enough.

 

[Random Fe]

Thanks for your help everyone! I have some great news!

I decided to make a 100GB partition on my 1TB backup drive and install Mojave on it. I couldn't get the createinstallmedia USB stick to work (whenever I got to the recovery menu with it wouldn't allow me to install Mojave because I had no metal capable GPU even though it was still installed) so I just used the app installer on my High Sierra installation to install Mojave on the partition. Installation went flawlessly and I set Mojave up as a new installation.

The Messages not working must have either been a fluke or just a problem with the NVMe SSD as, on this fresh installation on my SATA HDD partition, it worked flawlessly right away. I am very delighted that I do not have any hardwareID problems!

So I guess the only problem I have now is getting a SATA SSD/compatible NVMe (leaning towards SATA, I don't want another headache), cloning my High Sierra installation onto that, and then upgrading to Mojave (I could also use Migration Assistant).

Thank you again everyone for your help! I now know what I need to do to make my jump to Mojave successful!

 

[Keith Lyons]

Focus on your problems to boot, after you solved that, probably with another NVMe drive model, you look at the Mojave hardwareID problems.

No sense to worry with it now, since it's something that you can't repair yourself unless replacing the whole backplane.

@tsialex

I see you all over these boards, and on information overload. Can you assist?

 

[tsialex]

@tsialex

I see you all over these boards, and on information overload. Can you assist?

When asking for help, the first thing is to describe the problem that you are having, so someone that knows the answer can try help you.

 

[Keith Lyons]

When asking for help, the first thing is to describe the problem that you are having, so someone that knows the answer can try help you.

@tsialex

?.
Start: Very new to the 2020s, been paying AAPL for 15 years for laptops, desktops, straight out of box. Im a sucker I know. My knowledge has a 20year gap, heydays of 1990s, building machines was classic. Scoring 4mb Simms was cool .

Now: Got a few 5,1 2010, 32gb-48gb ram, single processors base models from ebay.
- Using MBP 16gb 2018 models
- Using old Mac minis 8gb 2014 models (going in trash soon)
-

Looking: Start small with upgrades to get back into game.
1)-NVME PCIe card for boot drive (anyway around the $200 boards?)
2)-240-500GB M2 for the load from 1TB HD currently in
3)-Graphics card 4x monitors (guessing RX580)
4)-upgrade wifi/BT for handoff, bring into 2020s.
5) CPU - quad 2.8 in now
6)-what else? time will tell.
7)-really only using this build for power 4 monitors for trading software (that are not user intense). Mostly trade from iPhone/iPad/laptop.

So, ive read these boards, and start dipping toe in water. Please excuse any poor etiquette, and where Im posting. I know when I lead/teach, that when you need help, ask. So im asking, as I have wrote down multiple items, and just gotta pull trigger on purchasing some upgrades.

Also like "this is what I would do" "buy this".. I think I can then follow instructions on flashing/updating/ect.. Im used to that stuff.

sorry again. rambling. dont know where to turn. ?

 

[tsialex]

@tsialex

?.
Start: Very new to the 2020s, been paying AAPL for 15 years for laptops, desktops, straight out of box. Im a sucker I know. My knowledge has a 20year gap, heydays of 1990s, building machines was classic. Scoring 4mb Simms was cool .

Now: Got a few 5,1 2010, 32gb-48gb ram, single processors base models from ebay.
- Using MBP 16gb 2018 models
- Using old Mac minis 8gb 2014 models (going in trash soon)
-

Looking: Start small with upgrades to get back into game.
1)-NVME PCIe card for boot drive (anyway around the $200 boards?)
2)-240-500GB M2 for the load from 1TB HD currently in
3)-Graphics card 4x monitors (guessing RX580)
4)-upgrade wifi/BT for handoff, bring into 2020s.
5) CPU - quad 2.8 in now
6)-what else? time will tell.
7)-really only using this build for power 4 monitors for trading software (that are not user intense). Mostly trade from iPhone/iPad/laptop.

So, ive read these boards, and start dipping toe in water. Please excuse any poor etiquette, and where Im posting. I know when I lead/teach, that when you need help, ask. So im asking, as I have wrote down multiple items, and just gotta pull trigger on purchasing some upgrades.

Also like "this is what I would do" "buy this".. I think I can then follow instructions on flashing/updating/ect.. Im used to that stuff.

sorry again. rambling. dont know where to turn. ?

Welcome to the forum, there are excellent threads about all topics you want covered, read the first post of each one.

Start from the stickies.
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