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dk001

macrumors demi-god
Oct 3, 2014
10,684
15,033
Sage, Lightning, and Mountains
Maybe PayPal doesn’t target the much, much larger Android community because they are lazy.
Look at post #172 for an explanation of what PayPal wants. Hint: $

You missed the point.
Of course PP want $$ - that is why they are using it as a wallet. More users, more money. They have been locked out of iOS. Their process (wallet) is not allowed by Apple as it competes with Apple Pay.

PayPal has been in use in Android since 2017.
 
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lartola

macrumors 68000
Feb 10, 2017
1,978
998
Apple didn’t force other OEMs to not provide replaceable batteries.
No, but they were the first to do it. They set the example that others followed. Now, thanks to Apple, the whole market is made up of smartphones with non-replaceable batteries. It’s still partly their fault even if they didn’t force anyone to follow their lead.
 
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Unregistered 4U

macrumors G4
Jul 22, 2002
10,117
8,060
You cannot add PayPal to your Apple Pay
PayPal has a debit card. Someone who had no other way to pay me paid me with PayPal, I added the PayPal debit card to my wallet and was able to transfer funds. I’m also pretty sure I could have designated that PayPal debit card as the card that Apple Pay uses for payments (just as I’d used a debit Visa previously).
 

Unregistered 4U

macrumors G4
Jul 22, 2002
10,117
8,060
No, but they were the first to do it. They set the example that others followed. Now, thanks to Apple, the whole market is made up of smartphones with non-replaceable batteries. It’s still partly their fault even if they didn’t force anyone to follow their lead.
Not “thanks to Apple”, thanks to “the physics of tiny voltages, small sizes, and improved reliability of rechargeable batteries”.

Apple being first doesn’t mean other companies are following Apple’s lead. If consumers really REALLLY wanted to be carrying around swappable batteries, they’d still be doing so (and a few are, I’d imagine). It’s more that non-replaceable batteries are the technological endpoint of the drive to miniaturization, weight and cost reductions.

I suppose there are some that would like the EU to require a common replaceable battery standard that ALL phones should use? I’m still wondering why the EU hasn’t taken a TRULY customer friendly move and pushed to make SMS free. WhatsApp primarily exists because the EU sat back and did nothing as EU cell companies raked consumers over the coals with every SMS message that was sent.
 

dk001

macrumors demi-god
Oct 3, 2014
10,684
15,033
Sage, Lightning, and Mountains
PayPal has a debit card. Someone who had no other way to pay me paid me with PayPal, I added the PayPal debit card to my wallet and was able to transfer funds. I’m also pretty sure I could have designated that PayPal debit card as the card that Apple Pay uses for payments (just as I’d used a debit Visa previously).

You still miss it. PayPal is more than just a card.
PayPal has a wallet app just like Apple Pay / Wallet.
This is allowed on Android. It exists and has been in use for years. You can also pay / Receive via NFC.
Apple does not allow "wallets" nor direct NFC on iOS. The only way cards are allowed on iOS is via Apple's "wallet".
 

robco74

macrumors 6502a
Nov 22, 2020
509
944
Yes, Android allows other wallet apps. But the overwhelming majority of Android users use Pay.
Android allows other app stores, but the overwhelming majority of users use the Play Store.
Android allows sideloading, but the overwhelming majority of users don't enable it.

Why should Apple be forced to provide these things when Google does, but only a tiny fraction of users actually do them? It's creating a lot of unnecessary work for Apple, for something that the vast majority of users won't actually use.
 

Unregistered 4U

macrumors G4
Jul 22, 2002
10,117
8,060
You still miss it. PayPal is more than just a card.
PayPal has a wallet app just like Apple Pay / Wallet.
This is allowed on Android. It exists and has been in use for years. You can also pay / Receive via NFC.
Apple does not allow "wallets" nor direct NFC on iOS. The only way cards are allowed on iOS is via Apple's "wallet".
Oh, then this isn’t about NFC then, because, via the Apple Wallet, PayPal could be behind every transaction (via ApplePay) that a user makes.
 

Unregistered 4U

macrumors G4
Jul 22, 2002
10,117
8,060
It is about NFC.
The fact that PayPal also has a wallet is a reason why they are part of this effort.
No, I mean NFC is used for purchasing. If someone wanted to use PayPal to purchase, they could. That’s it… PayPal Debit CAN be used for purchasing using the way Apple’s implemented NFC. PayPal’s physical debit card even has a chip it it that can be used for tap to pay.

Anything else is just PayPal not wanting to build their own hardware and I can understand why they wouldn’t want to, it’s hard. Apple found that out when they decided to build their own phone (after working with Motorola), but they kept at it until they had something that folks wanted to buy. The main mistake Apple made was making it such that too many people wanted one.
 

dk001

macrumors demi-god
Oct 3, 2014
10,684
15,033
Sage, Lightning, and Mountains
No, I mean NFC is used for purchasing. If someone wanted to use PayPal to purchase, they could. That’s it… PayPal Debit CAN be used for purchasing using the way Apple’s implemented NFC. PayPal’s physical debit card even has a chip it it that can be used for tap to pay.

Anything else is just PayPal not wanting to build their own hardware and I can understand why they wouldn’t want to, it’s hard. Apple found that out when they decided to build their own phone (after working with Motorola), but they kept at it until they had something that folks wanted to buy. The main mistake Apple made was making it such that too many people wanted one.

Which brings us back to square one - NFC access request without having to use Apple Wallet.
 

ct2k7

macrumors G3
Aug 29, 2008
8,369
3,436
London
So, it's for the interest of competitors and banks instead of actual customers. How quaint. Good job EU, working for your real bosses. ;)
Well yes, they’re also participants in the market. Just like Apple complained about Qualcomm which resulted in regulatory input.
 

Unregistered 4U

macrumors G4
Jul 22, 2002
10,117
8,060
I wouldn’t call it a mistake, though. It’s more of a business strategy: create lots of hype around their products to make them coveted.
Fortunately, Android’s much better at the hype as they sell far more phones. But, in some places, even being a distant number 2 isn’t good enough.
 

lartola

macrumors 68000
Feb 10, 2017
1,978
998
Fortunately, Android’s much better at the hype as they sell far more phones. But, in some places, even being a distant number 2 isn’t good enough.
Android doesn’t sell phones. And although in most of the world except the US there are far more android-powered devices than Apple devices, the sales of those android-powered devices are split among a lot of hardware manufacturers, so your statement about Android selling far more doesn’t hold completely true.
 

d686546s

macrumors 6502a
Jan 11, 2021
660
1,602
Except, in reality, it largely does. There are areas where it doesn’t but the broad strokes of business and commerce are fairly well spelled out in clear terms. If they weren’t, commerce couldn’t happen. Risks wouldn’t be taken. Rewards wouldn’t exist that would be worth taking the risks and an online bookseller wouldn’t become a cloud services provider making it affordable to host a web forum for folks to post that the world shouldn’t work in the way that makes these things possible.

Yes, usually after decades of regulation and litigation. Those clear frameworks don't just fall from the sky and even then business will operate with a certain degree of risk. Sometimes more, sometimes less.

Digital markets, particularly how to respond to major platforms that are more or less locked down by the gatekeeper, are still a fairly new thing in the grand scheme of things. The App Store was introduced only roughly 14 years ago and for a significant stretch of that smartphones didn't have the role in people's lives they have today.

Your employer is focused on financial viability. It is that viability that allows them to continue paying you. If you’re not working, then someone in your inner circle is concerned with ensuring they have the financial viability to ensure that you’re able to have the electronic device (made by a company that found it financially viable to produce), the electricity (provided by a company that found it financially viable to produce and distribute electricity)… etc. etc.

The things that you are against, companies having the ability to control and profit off the products/services they produce, is the very underpinning of things like this free forum. The first Apple II didn’t exist because they just thought it’d be cool to do it. It existed because they knew that in creating it, they would get to control how it’s marketed, what features it’d have, how it’s sold, how they’d profit from it. If the government proclaimed that ALL COMPUTERS MUST BE MONOCHROME and fined Apple for having a 16 color graphics mode, we wouldn’t have the Apple that exists today.

Again, the world that exists today depends on businesses understanding what’s required to take risks and profit from products/services they create. Without those compacts, there’s very few business that you currently profit from/buy products from/sell products to/acquire the services of that would exist.

Major new developments almost never happen in the context of an established, reliable and completely predictable regulatory framework. How could they? Smart business will be awake to the fact that regulators at some point will weigh in, particularly if a technology is actually significant. That's why people probably care less whether you can install new apps or use other marketplaces on your smart fridge right now, but they are very concerned about how certain companies can influence digital services on mobile devices.

No one, certainly not me, ever said that financial viability is no concern. I said it's not the only concern, especially not if your focus isn't any one particular company, but the market as a whole. The best way to make one company financially viable, in the extreme, is to give it a monopoly but we are very clearly concerned about this, particularly at the macro level. Besides, even accepting your argument, opening up digital markets does not necessarily undermine the financial viability of bringing devices to markets, although it may impact whether particular services (e.g. Apple Pay) will be as successful as they are now. On the flip side, this may improve the financial viability of other companies and give them a fighting chance.

Additionally, with only two large providers of software platforms, consumer choice is already severely limited. What if Google decides that it wants to extract more profit from Android as well and limits the extent to which others can provide services outside of their ecosystem (Google's already cracking down on those freedoms inside the Play Store)?

Is every service provider expected to create their own hardware platform?!
 

Unregistered 4U

macrumors G4
Jul 22, 2002
10,117
8,060
Android doesn’t sell phones. And although in most of the world except the US there are far more android-powered devices than Apple devices, the sales of those android-powered devices are split among a lot of hardware manufacturers, so your statement about Android selling far more doesn’t hold completely true.
Systems running the Android OS AND the Windows OS are more plentiful. If sales = hype, then the hype is truly tremendous, there.
 

lartola

macrumors 68000
Feb 10, 2017
1,978
998
Systems running the Android OS AND the Windows OS are more plentiful. If sales = hype, then the hype is truly tremendous, there.

Except that creating the hype, and any sales as a result of it, is up to the different hardware manufacturers, not MS or Google who just make the software. And no single one of those hardware manufacturers sells as many devices around the world as Apple does.
 

Unregistered 4U

macrumors G4
Jul 22, 2002
10,117
8,060
Except that creating the hype, and any sales as a result of it, is up to the different hardware manufacturers, not MS or Google who just make the software. And no single one of those hardware manufacturers sells as many devices around the world as Apple does.
Oh, that’s right, I’ve never seen any ads produced by either Microsoft
Or Google
sarcasm there, of course.

I mean, it could be that people just buy what they like, but if I go with your idea that sales are directly related to the amount of hype, then it doesn’t matter who’s producing the hype. Whether it’s one company or 50, there’s a LOT more non-Apple hype than Apple hype.
 

duffman9000

macrumors 68020
Sep 7, 2003
2,327
8,082
Deep in the Depths of CA
No, but they were the first to do it. They set the example that others followed. Now, thanks to Apple, the whole market is made up of smartphones with non-replaceable batteries. It’s still partly their fault even if they didn’t force anyone to follow their lead.
Maybe the other manufacturers should follow their own design decisions instead of blaming Apple.
 
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