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Keirasplace

macrumors 601
Aug 6, 2014
4,059
1,278
Montreal
Improvements looks good. If they could just double the mega pixels to allow larger viewing and cropping, it would be killer.

How would they do that on such a small sensor without crapping out the picture? Increasing the sensor size and keeping it the same quality without making the focusing appartus longer I believe is impossible physically right now. They could possibly slightly increase it, say 10MP-11MP, but doubling is improbable in that small package.

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A new sensor technology would be killer. This is another Instagram camera like any other 8-13MP tiny sensor camera.

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Why "is it definitely beyond"?

In other reviews of the 5s, it was clearly the winner in NOT overexposing pictures, compared to just about all other cameras in existence previously. If this one does so much better, then its a massive improvement on an already good smartphone camera.

There are seemingly a lot of other improvement in picture quality in there. Will have to test to be sure where they come from.

Got a Canon G16 and a few a Canon T5i with good lenses. Those shots ARE impressive and exciting for such a small sensor camera.
 

Max(IT)

Suspended
Dec 8, 2009
8,551
1,662
Italy
Impressed by results, but still a little bit disappointed by the megapixel count.... I'd prefer a 12 megapixel sensor for some crops.
 

Keirasplace

macrumors 601
Aug 6, 2014
4,059
1,278
Montreal
Not really impressive.

The 6+ just exposes better than the 5S. Seeing the original review, the 5S clearly overexposes the scenes, resulting in clipped highlights. It's not a hardware fault, though.

Seriously, got 25 years of photography behind me and I'm sure you must be trolling with such an affirmation.

For a small sensor camera in a smartphone, this is a very good performance.

Focusing fast in low light is very hard for any camera and most smart phones are HORRIBLE with terrible results when they're even able to do anything at all..
 

brdeveloper

macrumors 68030
Apr 21, 2010
2,629
313
Brasil
How would they do that on such a small sensor without crapping out the picture? Increasing the sensor size and keeping it the same quality without making the focusing appartus longer I believe is impossible physically right now. They could possibly slightly increase it, say 10MP-11MP, but doubling is improbable in that small package.

----------



In other reviews of the 5s, it was clearly the winner in NOT overexposing pictures, compared to just about all other cameras in existence previously. If this one does so much better, then its a massive improvement on an already good smartphone camera.

There are seemingly a lot of other improvement in picture quality in there. Will have to test to be sure where they come from.

Got a Canon G16 and a few a Canon T5i with good lenses. Those shots ARE impressive and exciting for such a small sensor camera.

I have a 2008 Panasonic LX3, 10MP. Pretty small, 6year technology. This camera still outperforms iPhone by far.

Other "fair" competitors: Lumia 1020, Nokia 808 Pureview, Nokia N8, to not say other models which performs at least the same, like Galaxy Note 3, S4 and S5. No, not impressive, at least if you prefer still pictures over videos.
 

brdeveloper

macrumors 68030
Apr 21, 2010
2,629
313
Brasil
Seriously, got 25 years of photography behind me and I'm sure you must be trolling with such an affirmation.

For a small sensor camera in a smartphone, this is a very good performance.

Focusing fast in low light is very hard for any camera and most smart phones are HORRIBLE with terrible results when they're even able to do anything at all..

I'm not saying that the other phones are way better, although a Nokia N8 (2010, crappy Symbian) still produces better still pictures than the latest iPhone or Galaxy S5. I'm just saying that I'd expect a phone capable of outperforming a 4yr old Nokia camera.
 

Keirasplace

macrumors 601
Aug 6, 2014
4,059
1,278
Montreal
I have a 2008 Panasonic LX3, 10MP. Pretty small, 6year technology. This camera still outperforms iPhone by far.

Other "fair" competitors: Lumia 1020, Nokia 808 Pureview, Nokia N8, to not say other models which performs at least the same, like Galaxy Note 3, S4 and S5. No, not impressive, at least if you prefer still pictures over videos.

Of course a decent compact camera will do better. Why even mention it. The optics will be 10 times better.

My G16 crushes any smart phone camera by a mile, not to mention the T5i with $1000 glass which demolishes your camera (but not all cameras, see even there, its not top class).

I'm pretty atuned to picture quality since I've got a high quality SLR since the late 1980s. I had actually better equipment in the 1990s (when I used film).

The 1020 has excellent PQ but has terribly slow focusing and is slow as a god damn dog. Everyone that's used it says the same. The 808 is faster, but still quite slow. Speed to shoot and speed to focus is one of the top specs in DSRL cameras since past a certain point, they're all getting good picture in decent lighting.

The S5 or Note 3 didn't perform the same except in normal light as reviewed on real photo sites, not trash Android sites.

Increasing the sensor size and keeping the picture quality can only be done by increasing the depth of the camera. That's what the Nokia camera did. Those phone are much wider than the current Iphone.
 
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MacDarcy

macrumors 65816
Jul 21, 2011
1,011
819
Impressed by results, but still a little bit disappointed by the megapixel count.... I'd prefer a 12 megapixel sensor for some crops.

I think Apple is doing it right. Higher megapixel counts on such a small sensor would be absolutely horrible, especially in low light. I'd much rather Apple do what they are doing. Improving other aspects of the camera.
 

scupking

macrumors 6502a
Dec 14, 2010
784
384
I think Apple is doing it right. Higher megapixel counts on such a small sensor would be absolutely horrible, especially in low light. I'd much rather Apple do what they are doing. Improving other aspects of the camera.

100% agree. Higher megapixels are a bad thing on small sensors.
 

brdeveloper

macrumors 68030
Apr 21, 2010
2,629
313
Brasil
Of course a decent compact camera will do better. Why even mention it. The optics will be 10 times better.

My G16 crushes any smart phone camera by a mile, not to mention the T5i with $1000 glass which demolishes your camera (but not all cameras, see even there, its not top class).

I'm pretty atuned to picture quality since I've got a high quality SLR since the late 1980s. I had actually better equipment in the 1990s (when I used film).

The 1020 has excellent PQ but has terribly slow focusing and is slow as a god damn dog. Everyone that's used it says the same. The 808 is faster, but still quite slow. The S5 or Note 3 didn't perform the same except in normal light as reviewed on real photo sites, not trash Android sites.

The only sites I trust when reviewing phones are DPReview Connect and GSMArena. GSMArena has a standard procedure almost as good as DPReview, so it's pretty good for comparing phones.

I also have a 2005 6MP DSLR, a few film SLRs, a Nikon Coolscan V film scanner and a bunch of manual and AF lenses. I develop B&W at home. I don't have the latest tech, but I have some critical sense, I guess. I'm not an Android fanboy.

Traditionally, iPhones and Galaxies aren't impressive cameras. Actually only Nokia made impressive cameraphones until now. A good camera capable of replacing a premium compact camera (like N8 and N808 did in the past) would make me move to the iOS world. Unfortunately it won't be this time.

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ok thanks for letting me know what i would like?

Just saying that the photographer did it well and the location is exotic which contributes to the "wow factor". An old Nokia N8 could do probably best in still picture IQ.
 

SVTmaniac

macrumors 6502
Jan 30, 2013
427
854
Eh? The entire shot except for the bit of grass at the very front is in focus. That's certainly not what I'd consider a shallow depth of field and very achievable with a camera phone.

The grass up front and the hills in the back are blurred. It is a tilt shift blur filter applied in photoshop. Unless the phone is laying in the grass you will not get blur on the foreground. I'm not knocking the camera I'm just stating facts that you can't get low depth of field from a cell phone camera, the sensor is just too small as is the "glass" if you can call it that. I love the camera on my 5s but I know it will never match my real gear.
 

Keirasplace

macrumors 601
Aug 6, 2014
4,059
1,278
Montreal
Don't know if this has been said yet or not but this guy was actually hired by Apple to do this, hence why there are no comparison shots, not trying to bash the camera or anything, just make everyone aware.

There will be shots tomorrow, so why would you think he's faking anything? Its not like he's going to be able to hide from the truth the next day :).

He's obviously not a reviewer, photography sites will get the phone and review it soon enough.
 

3282868

macrumors 603
Jan 8, 2009
5,281
0
I've read through many comments and studied a bit, but what is the real benefit to "Optical Image Stabilization"? I ask as I don't need the 5.5" model, but if "OIS" is truly beneficial over the 4.7" model, I'm torn. Thanks!
 

Keirasplace

macrumors 601
Aug 6, 2014
4,059
1,278
Montreal
The only sites I trust when reviewing phones are DPReview Connect and GSMArena. GSMArena has a standard procedure almost as good as DPReview, so it's pretty good for comparing phones.

I also have a 2005 6MP DSLR, a few film SLRs, a Nikon Coolscan V film scanner and a bunch of manual and AF lenses. I develop B&W at home. I don't have the latest tech, but I have some critical sense, I guess. I'm not an Android fanboy.

Traditionally, iPhones and Galaxies aren't impressive cameras. Actually only Nokia made impressive cameraphones until now. A good camera capable of replacing a premium compact camera (like N8 and N808 did in the past) would make me move to the iOS world. Unfortunately it won't be this time.

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Just saying that the photographer did it well and the location is exotic which contributes to the "wow factor". An old Nokia N8 could do probably best in still picture IQ.

Well DPReview was saying 5s was better than the S5 and Note 3 cameras in difficult shooting situations. Like I said. the Nokia camera were insanely slow to do anything and that is a massive spec in today's DSLR.

Picture quality in slow setups situation is not the usual use case for a smart phone camera. You'd want a DSLR or a high end compact for that rather than a smart phone. Even Nokia weren't really up to snuff for their best use case,. But, if you needed to take the Nokia's out in a bar to shoot your friends, or shoot a child doing crazy stuff, well it was just too slow. I knew people with those cameras and they had regrets I'll tell you. Many shots were out of focus or blurry.
 

Moonlight

macrumors 65816
Jul 9, 2002
1,131
2,356
Los Angeles
I'm not an Android fanboy.

Traditionally, iPhones and Galaxies aren't impressive cameras. Actually only Nokia made impressive cameraphones until now. A good camera capable of replacing a premium compact camera (like N8 and N808 did in the past) would make me move to the iOS world. Unfortunately it won't be this time.
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Nope, you are a Nokia/Symbian fanboy :)
 

rGiskard

macrumors 68000
Aug 9, 2012
1,800
955
That's exactly my point. That first picture was definitely NOT shot using an iPhone (or any other smartphone including the Lumina). As I'm sure you can see with your experience, that picture needed high-end sensor and glass.


See that reflective blob around the sun? If it were high end glass, it would have a starbust effect with 7 or more streaks. Also note the distortion in the upper left corner. That would not be there with high end glass. Finally, if this were shot with high end glass, a tiny aperture would have been used to bring as much as possible into focus. Close examination of the photo reveals that the distant hill dead center is out of focus as a result of the iPhone's humongous f/2.2 aperture, which only could focus effectively at the photo's mid-distance range.

I'm only a beginner and I could spot all the tells that this was from a point and shoot camera.
 

megfilmworks

macrumors 68020
Jul 1, 2007
2,046
16
Sherman Oaks
I've read through many comments and studied a bit, but what is the real benefit to "Optical Image Stabilization"? I ask as I don't need the 5.5" model, but if "OIS" is truly beneficial over the 4.7" model, I'm torn. Thanks!

The iPhone 6+'s OIS is a gyroscopic physical solution to camera shake.
The iPhone 6 has a software solution.
There is a significant difference between the two systems
when capturing low light pics...

How many times have you taken a low light pic
and it looks great on the iPhone screen,
but then you get it up on your laptop and it's soft or distorted?
OIS is a big help for these low light shots!
 

Keirasplace

macrumors 601
Aug 6, 2014
4,059
1,278
Montreal
I've read through many comments and studied a bit, but what is the real benefit to "Optical Image Stabilization"? I ask as I don't need the 5.5" model, but if "OIS" is truly beneficial over the 4.7" model, I'm torn. Thanks!

Reduces the shake of a hand held shot so you can shoot in much darker situation without blur (since in those situation the camera needs to increase the exposure time, which normall means your hand movements would show).

Also reduces the shake in situations where you youself are moving even in normal light like putting the camera on a bike to take video or taking a shot while moving (say to follow a quick action).

Its ability to stabilize video vastly improves video (though sometimes you can stabilize your video in post processing after the fact even without OIS (but its better to do it at the source)).
 

Moonlight

macrumors 65816
Jul 9, 2002
1,131
2,356
Los Angeles
See that reflective blob around the sun? If it were high end glass, it would have a starbust effect with 7 or more streaks. Also note the distortion in the upper left corner. That would not be there with high end glass. Finally, if this were shot with high end glass, a tiny aperture would have been used to bring as much as possible into focus. Close examination of the photo reveals that the distant hill dead center is out of focus as a result of the iPhone's humongous f/2.2 aperture, which only could focus effectively at the photo's mid-distance range.

I'm only a beginner and I could spot all the tells that this was from a point and shoot camera.


You are a beginner with a very good eye.
 

brdeveloper

macrumors 68030
Apr 21, 2010
2,629
313
Brasil
Well DPReview was saying 5s was better than the S5 and Note 3 cameras in difficult shooting situations. Like I said. the Nokia camera were insanely slow to do anything and that is a massive spec in today's DSLR.

Picture quality in slow setups situation is not the usual use case for a smart phone camera. You'd want a DSLR or a high end compact for that rather than a smart phone. Even Nokia weren't really up to snuff for their best use case,. But, if you needed to take the Nokia's out in a bar to shoot your friends, or shoot a child doing crazy stuff, well it was just too slow. I knew people with those cameras and they had regrets I'll tell you. Many shots were out of focus or blurry.

Yes, I agree in some sense. For most casual users, focusing fast (and focusing without pre-focusing) is more important than IQ. I'm waiting for Panasonic CM1. It will probably be the best choice to me. It's big for a smartphone, but smaller than a premium compact camera.
 
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