Politics, Religion, Social Issues Forum Closed (July 2021)

[LizKat]

Like many others here, I'll miss PRSI or rather the memory of past iterations of it. It's what had often led me in past years to check in and then cruise around for updates in other community threads I liked to follow.

More recently though, seeing other long term members losing their PRSI privileges, I became so wary of losing my own privileges that I found myself including parenthetical notices even in some non-PRSI posts, to the effect that I was not meaning to politicize those other threads, e.g. in commenting on some book I had read and found interesting.

In short I had gone beyond self-editing and had begun to self-censor in ways I didn't like, solely to avoid being booted out of PRSI, so I had drifted away. Hope I live long enough to see a more usefully vibrant PRSI revived again some day, as I will miss its better moments... of which there were actually many over the years during which I've been a forum member.

Meanwhile of course I'll be lurking to know when I've held onto some piece of gear too long or should wait another cycle before at least window-shopping through Apple's latest offerings.

 

[Apple fanboy]

We are closing the Politics, Religion, Social Issues forum, effective immediately.

For regulars of the PRSI forums, I apologize. We've long kept a politics forum on this site in order to allow users to discuss practically any topic beyond just Apple and Tech. And that's the reason I've defended keeping it over the years. However, due to a number of issues, it seems the best course of action now is to close the PRSI forum indefinitely.

Complaints about political discussion have been around since near the beginning of the site. In 2002, there were complaints about political discussion taking over the site - As a result we opened a politics subform to contain that conversation. That didn't last very long and required us to close the politics forum in 2003. We reopened them with stricter rules shortly after.

At this point we are going to prohibit all political and social issue discussions from the site with the exception of News stories that are categorized under Political News. We will also continue to post some news stories related to politics and social issues without comment threads. Over time, we will re-evaluate the need for political discussion in news stories at all.

I think this will save a lot of problems. I've always avoided the area as its a bit of a nightmare to have meaningful discussion where people disagree with your point of view.

Hopefully the Mods can have an easier time of it looking after the rest of the site.

 

[quagmire]

IMHO, the Political News Section is filled with a lot more vile discussions than PRSI. PRSI was relatively civil compared to comments I see in political news.

While I mostly lurked with the occasional posting in PRSI, still not surprising to see it closed down and frankly Political News Section is probably next to go( at least commentary wise). If people can't be civil, cite their sources with credible sources and not websites with a clear agenda, etc political discussion is just two people yelling at each other.

 

[icanhazmac]

While I've had PRSI filtered for some time I am sad to see it go as I always meant to rejoin that segment of the MR community. As many others have stated I found the vast majority of members at MR capable of nuanced conversation which I valued greatly. I always felt the MR mod staff deals with rule breaking content with an even hand and reasonable speed while allowing members to engage in conversation without cowtow'ing to the PC police and their never ending quest to cancel voices.

RIP PRSI, hopefully it can return but if not I joined here for Apple talk, I can find PRSI elsewhere.

 

[bunnspecial]

I regularly read and occasionally contributed to PRSI.

I've made this comment to a few other people, but here's my take on it. I came to this site to discuss Mac stuff, in particular older Mac hardware, but also stay up to date on what's going on, help folks, and get help.

My participation in those areas has waned somewhat over the last few years, in particular after a move last year left most of my collection in storage(so I can't do tests on weird hardware configuration unless it's one of the 5 or 6 computers that didn't go into storage).

With that said, I've found some other really great areas of the site. I use to enjoy participating in the car thread. I love the digital photography forum.

At the end of the day, I think most of us who end up here have a lot in common or at least are predisposed to like each other regardless of our political leanings. That's not to say everything is all great and fine. I've had far more...friction...with posters outside PRSI than I ever have in there and often because of fundamental personality conflicts.

Still, though, PRSI-worthy topics are inherently polarizing, and it's easy to find that the person you just enjoyed helping get Leopard installed on the Sawtooth G4 has radical views on whatever and all of a sudden that person-for better or worse-is "tainted" in your eyes.

That's just my take on it. Virtually every site of which I'm a member has a place for off-topic discussions that are not political in nature and they largely look like the Community Forum here. They can be an overall good thing(IMO) and help other members connect over a common interest. A blanket ban on PRSI-type discussions typically is not permitted.

 

[ucfgrad93]

Can’t say that I’m sad to see it go.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

I am sad to see PRSI go. I fail to understand why people who didn't want to read about politics couldn't simply chose not to visit the PRSI forum, but perhaps I am missing something. I do understand the decision of the owners of MR though - it must have been a hassle moderating all of those comments. Thus, thank you for putting in the Herculean effort for so long. 👏

On my part, I think I will be coming here less often. I used to come to MR to keep track of revolutionary changes in technology. Now the stories are like "Apple releases MacOS ∞.∞.∞+1 public beta', but that's not MR's fault. After 40+ years of personal computing, there is very little left to invent and progress seems incremental for the foreseeable future. I hope I am wrong - perhaps the new generation of chips will stir things up a bit by allowing local AI (more than just Siri).

One more thing: Every technological advance comes with social impacts, environmental impacts, legal regulations, etc. that determine how technology will be used. I honestly don't know how politics can be separated from technology (e.g., Apple is trying to distance itself from surveillance capitalism in the public's eye, an inherently political move that determines their software and hardware development). Indeed from the Mac's very beginning, the democratisation of computing - a political aim - was what made people enthusiastic about it. (Well, maybe that and QuickDraw...)

Source: link

Some people visited it for sport.

Your second paragraph: Yeah. I used to sell stereo equipment, and from one year to the next, the 'changes' could be as pointless as moving the knobs around. One year, a company came out with white front panels. Seriously. The previous year, it was black, that next year, it was white. Oh, and then the 'big knob' thing hit. *sigh* And the saddest thing was how many people fell for it. One kid had just bought the top of the line the year before, financed it all, and then bought the new stuff, financing it too. I guess he sold his 'old' stuff. He'd be paying for years for what was really no big change at all...

The Qualcomm thread is weird too. BUT, possibly I'm just burned out from all the hype over the years and reading so much of it in that thread. That could be it... But, yeah, Apple is going to run out of whizz bang to add to the iPhone. It will reach a point where it is as fast as it physically could be, with enough memory for the library of congress, and cameras able to tell the gender of a trout 30 feet down. Then what? *shrug*

And raw technology shouldn't be partisan. Raw technology is agnostic. It's what people who make it and use it do, I think. *shrug* I remember as a kid, it was an amazing time. There was no racism, there was no sexism, there was no classism. Not until we all got older, and then it was 'You can't play with that Major's kid', and 'You can't play with ______, because ______'. *sigh*

 

[hulugu]

With all due respect, I think this is a mistake. PRSI was a worthwhile forum that required moderation and pruning. And, I suspect that getting rid of PRSI just means that other sections will become politicized.

Do we really expect to eliminate talk about politics when it comes to technology, even as technology sits at the intersection of big dynamic social forces? Good luck with that.

 

[NT1440]

With all due respect, I think this is a mistake. PRSI was a worthwhile forum that required moderation and pruning. And, I suspect that getting rid of PRSI just means that other sections will become politicized.

Do we really expect to eliminate talk about politics when it comes to technology, even as technology sits at the intersection of big dynamic social forces? Good luck with that.

Honestly if you find political discussion to be a major annoyance on a tech site, PRSI should be viewed as a backyard mosquito trap.

Does it capture all mosquitoes? Of course not, but when it’s removed the mods are going to find a lot more annoyances popping up all over the place when it would have naturally gravitated towards PRSI in the first place.

Given the state of the world, good luck figuring out what to do with any topics that even remotely touch manufacturing (China), privacy/surveillance (US/China), etc.

I honestly think the complainers are going to keep complaining until mentioning anything related to the reality of the world Apple operates in becomes a banable offense. You can only call for the referees so much before you’re (in practice) actually calling for the end of the game.

 

[takao]

RIP PRSI

Man was caught off guard by this. I remember thinking after the last announcement a few weeks ago with no new members able to join that we will lose PRSI regulars step by step but this really made a sad Monday.

I feel compared to the news sections the discussion was way more civil. Sure different opinions and lot and back and forth but compared to any other off topic forum on the web it was always a place to exchange with people across the globe outside every bodies own social bubble. I learned a lot about US politics and how much the internet could foster understanding.

For me this is the end of an era... PRSI was for me the last hurra of how the internet was prior to all the bubbles enforced by algorithms, social media and digital fences. I joined as a fresh university student and now it is closing one of the last chapters of the old internet for me.

A big toast to all the former regulars !

 

[pshufd]

It was a cool place while it lasted. I was wondering why I hadn't received any posts. Is there a new place to chat?

I was also caught off-guard.

 

[StralyanPithecus]

Great is closed for good, the only problem now is the spillover on the regular forums, already saw lots of politics mixed with regular comments

 

[Herdfan]

I am sad to see PRSI go. I fail to understand why people who didn't want to read about politics couldn't simply chose not to visit the PRSI forum, but perhaps I am missing something.

Because there is a subset of people who if they don't like something, they don't want anyone else to be able to participate in it either.

 

[pshufd]

Because there is a subset of people who if they don't like something, they don't want anyone else to be able to participate in it either.

There are lots of places to chat but very few have the requirement to provide sources for your assertions. The result is that you had a fair number of smart and informed people who appreciated facts and analysis with something behind it.

 

[Herdfan]

Looks like this has been in the works for a little while. See the last post.

PRSI Moderation Feedback (2021)

How do you regard moderation here at PRSI? For the purposes of longevity of this thread, I would recommend limiting comments unless solicited by authorities here, and mostly just assign a grade.

forums.macrumors.com

 

[Huntn]

I moderated on a Mac Gaming site in a former life and know it can be hard to get right. My impression of PRSI while I was active there, it was too restrictive and too punitive. My point is this was an adult forum, not nursery school, but the latter is how it was moderated. And if it is too hard to find the right balance, I agree on the decision to terminate PRS.

However, I still sad PRSI is shut down. My impression is the good guys/gals out numbered the malcontents, there were good exchanges of opinions and that while I would never want to it to turn into the jungle, the rules were too restrictive, and the concept of moderatorable offenses was way too strict.

Plus imo moderators where too punitive based just on complaints, even invalid complaints, not neutral enough, and I believe they lacked a diverse perspective. I remember members being moderated if they told someone they were “uneducated“ on a topic, which they might have been, but that could get you a couple days off.

 

[vipergts2207]

What an unfortunate and misguided decision. Instead of keeping the vast majority of the political discussion contained in one place it will now spread over the rest of the site as people seek an outlet. I generally found that engaging discussion could be had, even with people of opposing views. If moderation was becoming too great a task, it could’ve been limited to paying members so at least there was an obstacle for participation. I come to MR almost daily for Apple news, but I expect I’ll spend much less time here, certainly in the forums.

 

[Huntn]

Looks like this has been in the works for a little while. See the last post.

PRSI Moderation Feedback (2021)

How do you regard moderation here at PRSI? For the purposes of longevity of this thread, I would recommend limiting comments unless solicited by authorities here, and mostly just assign a grade.

forums.macrumors.com

Not that it matters now, but I got a generic warning without any explanation. I replied to the PM and was directed another place to ask why. Never got an answer. So I certainly see why @Huntn asked the question.

Figured out that even calling yourself a Redneck was against the rules. Hence my new avatar and signature.

Yeah, that lasted only a day or two. Can’t have members rating moderators, now can we. ?

 

[NT1440]

What an unfortunate and misguided decision. Instead of keeping the vast majority of the political discussion contained in one place it will know spread over the rest of the site as people seek an outlet. I generally found that engaging discussion could be had, even with people of opposing views. If moderation was becoming too great a task, it could’ve been limited to paying members so at least there was an obstacle for participation. I come to MR almost daily for Apple news, but I expect I’ll spend much less time here, certainly in the forums.

Hell, I paid for the first time this year (now that I have the means) specifically because I recognized that the vast majority of my usage was PRSI and it takes extra work.

Probably won’t renew next year. I do help people frequently in the Mac sections, but I’d gladly pay if PRSI was kept alive to contributors as well.

 

[Huntn]

What an unfortunate and misguided decision. Instead of keeping the vast majority of the political discussion contained in one place it will know spread over the rest of the site as people seek an outlet. I generally found that engaging discussion could be had, even with people of opposing views. If moderation was becoming too great a task, it could’ve been limited to paying members so at least there was an obstacle for participation. I come to MR almost daily for Apple news, but I expect I’ll spend much less time here, certainly in the forums.

Good idea, let us pay, but give us more freedom (from moderation) if we want to talk politics at MRs.

 

[iOS Geek]

Looks like this has been in the works for a little while. See the last post.

PRSI Moderation Feedback (2021)

How do you regard moderation here at PRSI? For the purposes of longevity of this thread, I would recommend limiting comments unless solicited by authorities here, and mostly just assign a grade.

forums.macrumors.com

Not that it matters now, but I got a generic warning without any explanation. I replied to the PM and was directed another place to ask why. Never got an answer. So I certainly see why @Huntn asked the question.

Figured out that even calling yourself a Redneck was against the rules. Hence my new avatar and signature.

Echoing what someone else said earlier in this thread, I will say I saw this coming. As soon as they stopped letting new people in, I figured the forum was at the beginning of a slow death…but this was faster than I thought.

I’ll also say that while I had some fairly heated talks with users on that forum, I also had some enjoyable ones.

 

[Herdfan]

Echoing what someone else said earlier in this thread, I will say I saw this coming. As soon as they stopped letting new people in, I figured the forum was at the beginning of a slow death…but this was faster than I thought.

I’ll also say that while I had some fairly heated talks with users on that forum, I also had some enjoyable ones.

When they did that, they probably should have limited to members who had posted there in the past year. Over the past few months there were members I had never seen in there and they were bomb throwers.

 

[iOS Geek]

When they did that, they probably should have limited to members who had posted there in the past year. Over the past few months there were members I had never seen in there and they were bomb throwers.

I noticed that as well. I do recall every once in a while recently when I would look around, I saw names I didn’t recognize…and also saw less and less of some regulars.

I won’t say I have an answer to how it should or should not have been handled (because I sure as heck do NOT have an answer ?), but this does seem like it would have been reasonable. I think there would be criticism no matter how it was handled.

 

[John-F]

Just a few comments from someone with a conservative viewpoint, definitely a minority on the forum.

I'm also a moderator/admin on a conservative-oriented forum. Although there are different viewpoints on some issues, the diversity of opinions is far less than here.

So while the forum has similar rules, as do I think many forums, the moderation is simple. Almost all moderator actions are to help someone with technical issues on the site. On PRSI, I felt like having to walk on egg shells. After composing a post, I would review it carefully, asking myself if I wrote anything that someone could use to complain about.

I'm also on an automotive-related forum that has a political section. They are maybe 90% conservative, 10% liberal. The moderation there is more strict than on my site, but not as strict as here.

Anyway, with the wide divergence and lack of common ground in views, I think sites with a mixture of political positions might be difficult for the foreseeable future.

 

[pshufd]

Anyway, with the wide divergence and lack of common ground in views, I think sites with a mixture of political positions might be difficult for the foreseeable future.

I've been a shareholder in Twitter for a while. There have been attempts to duplicate what they have and to run forums in general that serve a very diverse plethora of viewpoints. And they manage to do it and do it well. What I've come around to is that what they do is very, very hard and, if it were easy, they'd have more competition.

I would put Facebook into the same category but I don't use Facebook so I don't know what it's like.