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lkalliance

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Jul 17, 2015
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Well, shoot, the timing is really not working out. I've got a 2020 SE, which I like. But I am expecting to upgrade to a higher end model before going on a big trip I'm planning with my partner, which we expect to happen in September of 2022. The one thing that I will wince at for such an upgrade would be saying good-bye to Touch ID, which I prefer to the experience I expect to have with Face ID. And now the latest rumors are that an in-screen fingerprint scanner might be on its way...in the 2022 models. Which would be coming out just after we go on our trip. Super.

Not posing this as a question or seeking advice necessarily. Just a poor-first-world-me expression.
 

PeteBurgh

macrumors 6502
Jun 25, 2014
281
622
You got a phone you like, which is great! You're going on a trip - that sounds fun!

I suggest continuing to enjoy those things, and allocating exactly 0 seconds to being frustrated about features that may or may not be included, and may or may not work well for you in a hypothetical phone that may or may not be released in 2022, or earlier, or later, or never.

I hope you have a great trip, and that there are thing to enjoy about it besides the precise mechanism by which you unlock your phone :)
 

ApfelKuchen

macrumors 601
Aug 28, 2012
4,334
3,011
Between the coasts
Why anticipate a poorer experience with Face ID relative to Touch ID? It's true that the change will require a period of adaptation (moving from click Home button to swipe-up, looking towards phone to unlock), however, adaptation is transitory.

I've been a Face ID fan from the start. I strongly prefer it over Touch ID (which I still have on my iPad). Instead of having to move my hand/finger to the Home button and pressing, I just lift the iPhone (which I would do in any case) and glance towards the screen (which I would do anyway). While it's possible that even after living with Face ID you may not like it as I do, but I think there's also a very good chance that your concerns will turn out to be unfounded.
 
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lkalliance

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Jul 17, 2015
1,360
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You got a phone you like, which is great! You're going on a trip - that sounds fun!

I suggest continuing to enjoy those things, and allocating exactly 0 seconds to being frustrated about features that may or may not be included, and may or may not work well for you in a hypothetical phone that may or may not be released in 2022, or earlier, or later, or never.

I hope you have a great trip, and that there are thing to enjoy about it besides the precise mechanism by which you unlock your phone :)

Thanks, lol. But if I don't stress out over minutiae (like, for instance, the correct spelling of "minutiae") then I wouldn't be me! ;)

But point taken. ?

Why anticipate a poorer experience with Face ID relative to Touch ID? It's true that the change will require a period of adaptation (moving from click Home button to swipe-up, looking towards phone to unlock), however, adaptation is transitory.

I've been a Face ID fan from the start. I strongly prefer it over Touch ID (which I still have on my iPad). Instead of having to move my hand/finger to the Home button and pressing, I just lift the iPhone (which I would do in any case) and glance towards the screen (which I would do anyway). While it's possible that even after living with Face ID you may not like it as I do, but I think there's also a very good chance that your concerns will turn out to be unfounded.

For me it's been a matter of CONTROL. Face ID turns me into a passive participant in the unlocking method. If the phone detects my face, it will unlock, even if I did not intend so. With Touch ID it will not unlock unless I do a specific (and still convenient) gesture, and that makes me an active participant and the phone the passive one. Put another way, I believe that there is a much lesser chance of accidental unlocking with Touch ID than with Face ID.

Now, it turns out that since I posted this, I got a tutorial from my daughter. When Face ID unlocks, it does not go immediately to the home screen (like Touch ID does when it authenticates). It remains on the lock screen, until I swipe up. From a security standpoint, this is not an improvement (the phone is still unlocked, perhaps accidentally), but from a user interface standpoint, it is an improvement over how I thought it worked (active user input is still required).

The more I know!
 

colodane

macrumors 65816
Nov 11, 2012
1,019
460
Colorado
I went from an iPhone 8 (touch) to a 12 mini and wasn't sure if I would like the Face ID or not. Turns out that I LOVE it!

Much easier and more convenient than the finger sensor. The mask thing was the only issue, but that is no longer relevant since we rarely need to wear a mask here.

I am amazed at how good and quick the Face ID is. No matter how dim the lighting, whether or not I'm wearing glasses, what the background is, etc. the phone always instantly recognizes me - even when at an odd angle and far from my face. I would never want to go back to the finger sensor.

So please don't loose any sleep over worrying about this ?
 
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lkalliance

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Jul 17, 2015
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I went from an iPhone 8 (touch) to a 12 mini and wasn't sure if I would like the Face ID or not. Turns out that I LOVE it!

Much easier and more convenient than the finger sensor. The mask thing was the only issue, but that is no longer relevant since we rarely need to wear a mask here.

I am amazed at how good and quick the Face ID is. No matter how dim the lighting, whether or not I'm wearing glasses, what the background is, etc. the phone always instantly recognizes me - even when at an odd angle and far from my face. I would never want to go back to the finger sensor.

So please don't loose any sleep over worrying about this ?
If I didn’t lose any sleep I’d lose sleep over why I wasn’t losing any sleep!!!!!

;)
 

ApfelKuchen

macrumors 601
Aug 28, 2012
4,334
3,011
Between the coasts
Thanks, lol. But if I don't stress out over minutiae (like, for instance, the correct spelling of "minutiae") then I wouldn't be me! ;)

But point taken. ?



For me it's been a matter of CONTROL. Face ID turns me into a passive participant in the unlocking method. If the phone detects my face, it will unlock, even if I did not intend so. With Touch ID it will not unlock unless I do a specific (and still convenient) gesture, and that makes me an active participant and the phone the passive one. Put another way, I believe that there is a much lesser chance of accidental unlocking with Touch ID than with Face ID.

Now, it turns out that since I posted this, I got a tutorial from my daughter. When Face ID unlocks, it does not go immediately to the home screen (like Touch ID does when it authenticates). It remains on the lock screen, until I swipe up. From a security standpoint, this is not an improvement (the phone is still unlocked, perhaps accidentally), but from a user interface standpoint, it is an improvement over how I thought it worked (active user input is still required).

The more I know!
It depends on how you define CONTROL. There's a setting "Require Attention for Face ID." When engaged (which is my choice), Face ID requires attention - not just the camera detecting your face; it won't unlock unless your eyes are actually looking at the display. When I intend it to open, I look at it. That's enough control for my taste.

By the way, Touch ID doesn't automatically go to to the Home screen when you click the Home button. You have to click the button AND rest your finger on the Home button a moment - two actions, even if we manage to combine them into a single sequence. First the click to wake the device, then the finger-rest to scan your finger and unlock.

Face ID has a variety of options/modes. There's Raise to Wake - lift the iPhone and the display wakes, after which the device unlocks. If it's off, then it's tap to wake/press Side button to wake and invoke Face ID (this adds a layer of intention to the unlock sequence). Either way, if it's not already awake, it's not going to unlock. Why the separate swipe-up? I think it's another way to ensure intention - if accidentally unlocked, it doesn't automatically reveal that which is hidden behind the Lock Screen.

But you want real control? Turn off any kind of biometric system and type in the passcode. Biometrics are intended to make unlocking easier. They do not make the device more secure or more controlled. It's a compromise intended, in part, to encourage more people to lock their devices - easier to unlock, more likely to allow it to be locked. One might say this whole discussion is just a matter of "How much easier should it be?" You want it a little bit harder? Be my guest, it's your iPhone.

But in the end, we choose our phones for a variety of reasons and often make compromises in order to have specific features. iPhone SE is a very nice phone, which I recommend quite frequently. However, it's not my personal choice. I prefer a phone with a "telephoto" camera as well as wide angle. I also dislike the display area lost to the bottom bezel/Home button - I'm very attached to the extra display space delivered by the iPhone X and its newer cousins - same overall size as the SE, bigger display area. Even if I was less enthusiastic about Face ID than I am, I'd choose an iPhone X (or 12 Pro) over an SE any day of the week.
 
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lkalliance

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Jul 17, 2015
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Well this thread has certainly educated me on some of the finer points of Face ID. In the back of my mind, I assumed that Apple had probably thought of most of these issues and put in some appropriate options, so, that's on me.

By the way, Touch ID doesn't automatically go to to the Home screen when you click the Home button. You have to click the button AND rest your finger on the Home button a moment - two actions, even if we manage to combine them into a single sequence. First the click to wake the device, then the finger-rest to scan your finger and unlock.

True, but the two actions are so seamless that they might as well be one action. I remember back in the day, the first iteration of Touch ID, the pause to wait for authentication was considerable. When the second generation of Touch ID arrived on the iPhone 6, there were reactions that it was TOO fast: that folks wanting to just glance at the lock screen could not do so without unlocking (this was before raise-to-wake).

Face ID has a variety of options/modes. There's Raise to Wake - lift the iPhone and the display wakes, after which the device unlocks. If it's off, then it's tap to wake/press Side button to wake and invoke Face ID (this adds a layer of intention to the unlock sequence). Either way, if it's not already awake, it's not going to unlock. Why the separate swipe-up? I think it's another way to ensure intention - if accidentally unlocked, it doesn't automatically reveal that which is hidden behind the Lock Screen.

Agree strongly with the swipe-up: I think it's a must. I just learned about it yesterday, and I was glad to see it was there!

Do I understand from your phrasing that if you have raise-to-wake turned off, then you can tap the (turned-off) screen and that will wake the phone? That is a game-changer (that is, in the game inside my mind, where the feature didn't exist, even if it did in real life, lol). That means that from a UX perspective, Face ID can be exactly like Touch ID: lift phone, touch screen with your thumb, [insert magic here], phone unlocks. And those that want an experience with less friction can turn on raise-to-wake or other options.

But you want real control? Turn off any kind of biometric system and type in the passcode. Biometrics are intended to make unlocking easier. They do not make the device more secure or more controlled. It's a compromise intended, in part, to encourage more people to lock their devices - easier to unlock, more likely to allow it to be locked. One might say this whole discussion is just a matter of "How much easier should it be?" You want it a little bit harder? Be my guest, it's your iPhone.

I agree here. All security and control is a trade-off with convenience, I'd guess. I just felt that the trade-off was minimal with Touch ID. I can get just enough convenience to have a long password without really changing the interaction of the phone (add a quarter-second pause on the home button to unlock, and my thumb is already there anyway).

With the information I've gotten on this thread, I see that the Face ID implementation is not as far away from Touch ID as I thought it was (pending your clarification on tapping the sleeping screen to wake instead of having to press the side button). I DO still get the feeling that Touch ID is still more convenient in one last way: Apple Pay. That becomes a more complex operation, making authentication truly two steps instead of one (I will continue to count "press-and-rest" as one user action, even though the phone considers it two separate actions).

But we're now way down the list. If you said to me (and this is what I thought Apple WAS saying to me), that you could have more screen real estate if you swap Touch ID for Face ID (as I had then conceived it), learn a new set of user interactions to replace the home button, and had a slightly less convenient Apple Pay, then I would have said no. Which I did. But if you told me that Face ID could be made to essentially work like Touch ID as far as my muscular interaction, then I would probably say yes!

But in the end, we choose our phones for a variety of reasons and often make compromises in order to have specific features. iPhone SE is a very nice phone, which I recommend quite frequently. However, it's not my personal choice. I prefer a phone with a "telephoto" camera as well as wide angle. I also dislike the display area lost to the bottom bezel/Home button - I'm very attached to the extra display space delivered by the iPhone X and its newer cousins - same overall size as the SE, bigger display area. Even if I was less enthusiastic about Face ID than I am, I'd choose an iPhone X (or 12 Pro) over an SE any day of the week.

It's interesting what trade-offs we're individually willing to make. I remember back when the iPhone 5S came out, alongside the iPhone 5c. The value proposition was obvious: you could have either the improved chip (64 bits!), Touch ID, and significantly improved camera, or you could have the 5c's styling. At the time I chose the latter: I was not a fan of the "hand feel" of the 5 series, and I felt it was TOO light if anything. The 5c was and remains my favorite iPhone. I figured (rightly) that I could wait a couple of years before 64 bit were crucial to me, and (wrongly) that in two years those technologies would filter down to the 5c in the form of a 6c or some such, and I'd upgrade then. No dice, lol. I ended up with an SE 2016. Anyway I chose the 5c and I felt it was a good choice.

In this case I also know the value proposition: I could keep Touch ID, which I love, and have a truly significant reduction in price (much larger than the 5S-to-5c difference); or I could have the full screen, the 5G (which I don't care about but someday might), and the better camera. Unlike a few years ago, a specific trade-off is coming back to hit me now a little: I wish I had the better camera, I'm so close to feeling OK leaving my DSLR behind when I feel like it. Besides that and the slightly disappointing battery life, the SE is wonderful. Sometimes you guess right, sometimes you guess wrong. In either case, 2007 is a speck in the rear-view mirror, and I can't even see 2005 any more.
 

ApfelKuchen

macrumors 601
Aug 28, 2012
4,334
3,011
Between the coasts
Do I understand from your phrasing that if you have raise-to-wake turned off, then you can tap the (turned-off) screen and that will wake the phone? That is a game-changer (that is, in the game inside my mind, where the feature didn't exist, even if it did in real life, lol). That means that from a UX perspective, Face ID can be exactly like Touch ID: lift phone, touch screen with your thumb, [insert magic here], phone unlocks. And those that want an experience with less friction can turn on raise-to-wake or other options
Yes, when Raise to Wake is OFF, then it's tap-screen-to-wake (essentially a substitute for clicking the Home button). Although to add one additional nuance... even if Raise to Wake is ON, it still responds to a tap-screen-to-wake (in other words, tap-screen-to-wake is available regardless of other options).
 
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lkalliance

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Jul 17, 2015
1,360
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Yes, when Raise to Wake is OFF, then it's tap-screen-to-wake (essentially a substitute for clicking the Home button). Although to add one additional nuance... even if Raise to Wake is ON, it still responds to a tap-screen-to-wake (in other words, tap-screen-to-wake is available regardless of other options).
That is huge news for me. There's the missing link. Only it wasn't missing. So, just a link. Thanks, ApfelKuchen!
 
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