Resolved Powerbook’s Keyboard/Trackpad not working anymore

[philgxxd]

Hi.
I just bought a 15” DLSD PowerBook with a non-working keyboard/trackpad.
It is otherwise in pristine condition and I’m very happy with it.
I tried it with a working battery from my other Powerbook and it booted right up so at least the power button is working.

The seller and I were talking on the phone about it and he told me he tried to change the PRAM battery to get rid of the nagging window of loosing the time on every boot and that after the failed attempt (a new PRAM battery didn’t make the date/time stick neither) the keyboard stopped working.

I had the hope it would be a bad seated cable but it seems to be something else.
There is nothing obvious wrong with it. I can’t spot anything broken visually.
I reset the PRAM and the NVRAM but that didn’t help.
I cleaned the contacts on both, the conector on the motherboard and the conector on the ribbon cable with alcohol on a brush.

Now, I have another 1.67Ghz 15” non-DLSD PowerBook with which I thought of changing the keyboard but there are different enough so I’m reluctant to just try it without knowing if they are pin-compatible.

I will try to find schematics for both models and will study the pin out.

Has anyone experience with the DLSD model and an idea what i could try before going down the board level repair?

 

[eyoungren]

Hi.
I just bought a 15” DLSD PowerBook with a non-working keyboard/trackpad.
It is otherwise in pristine condition and I’m very happy with it.
I tried it with a working battery from my other Powerbook and it booted right up so at least the power button is working.

The seller and I were talking on the phone about it and he told me he tried to change the PRAM battery to get rid of the nagging window of loosing the time on every boot and that after the failed attempt (a new PRAM battery didn’t make the date/time stick neither) the keyboard stopped working.

I had the hope it would be a bad seated cable but it seems to be something else.
There is nothing obvious wrong with it. I can’t spot anything broken visually.
I reset the PRAM and the NVRAM but that didn’t help.
I cleaned the contacts on both, the conector on the motherboard and the conector on the ribbon cable with alcohol on a brush.

Now, I have another 1.67Ghz 15” non-DLSD PowerBook with which I thought of changing the keyboard but there are different enough so I’m reluctant to just try it without knowing if they are pin-compatible.

I will try to find schematics for both models and will study the pin out.

Has anyone experience with the DLSD model and an idea what i could try before going down the board level repair?

Those ribbon connectors are a weird thing. I had one with a replacement 17" PB I got that had been jimmied back on by the seller after breaking off. It worked intermittently and he'd stuck small paper spacers in there to keep the contact.

I'd take a good look at where the connector is attached to your LB. People sometimes get frustrated with those small tabs and either don't pull them out all the way or pull too far or too hard.

My worry is that you go through the machinations to replace the keyboard only to find out it's still not working - because of a faulty connection. If it's not a loose connector then maybe there's something around where the PRAM battery is that affects the keyboard. Some little part knocked off or something maybe.

 

[Wild Hare]

Might try running Apple Hardware Test - using another temporarily attached USB keyboard & mouse. (And maybe disconnect, just as the tests are to begin?)

 

[B S Magnet]

Those ribbon connectors are a weird thing. I had one with a replacement 17" PB I got that had been jimmied back on by the seller after breaking off. It worked intermittently and he'd stuck small paper spacers in there to keep the contact.

I'd take a good look at where the connector is attached to your LB. People sometimes get frustrated with those small tabs and either don't pull them out all the way or pull too far or too hard.

My worry is that you go through the machinations to replace the keyboard only to find out it's still not working - because of a faulty connection. If it's not a loose connector then maybe there's something around where the PRAM battery is that affects the keyboard. Some little part knocked off or something maybe.

I’m inclined to agree with @eyoungren here. These flat cables are hella delicate. The ZIF (zero-insertion force) keyboard assembly topcase cable in the 17-inch DLSD varies from the 15-inch DLSD in how each connects to the logic board, but both still depend on a delicate flat cable to do it.

For the 15-inch variant, this cable is also a whole lot longer than the 17-inch version (pic from ifixit):

Any defect/damage to the cable is going to occur on a much longer stretch — meaning, inspecting/testing it for a minuscule defect (like a tear, or a pinch) may take a lot longer to definitively find/rule out. It’s also possible the socket itself (by the thumb in the pic) might have been damaged somehow when the PRAM battery was replaced. But you’ve inspected all these visually and nothing appears to be amiss.

What gets me here is the power button is responsive, but the keyboard and trackpad are not.

I’m curious: if the power button is responsive, then does holding down “T” at power-up bring you to FireWire target disk mode or does the “T” get ignored?

If the “T” is ignored, have you connected an external USB keyboard and mouse, held down “T”, and found this to be responsive to opening target disk mode?

If the “T” is responsive from an external keyboard at power-up but not the topcase keyboard, then I’m thinking it’s a topcase issue.

If the “T” from the topcase keyboard does work, but then the topcase keyboard/trackpad aren’t responsive once WindowServer launches (and especially so if the same exact issue happens with an external keyboard), then I’m thinking there’s something amiss about the installation of OS X (namely, something was corrupted/moved/missing which affects the HID — Human Interface Device — functionality components of OS X itself). If this is the case, try throwing in an install DVD of OS X (either system disk DVD [note: link to the DLSD OEM DVD on archive-dot-org] or Leopard retail DVD), or boot from an external build of OS X to see whether the topcase keyboard/trackpad issues persist.

Lastly, if both the “T” at power-up (using the topcase keyboard) and external keyboard/mouse don’t work, I’m thinking it might be something related to the board.

* * *

All the above said, yes, it could be the logic board was damaged, and it could also still be the cable, though at the topcase end, not the board end. I’m not sure what might work best for you, but if all of the above ends in futility and it does appear to be a hardware issue, then it might be easier/cheaper to obtain another topcase assembly first before resorting to board work/replacement.

 

[philgxxd]

Thanks so much for all the good advices.
I was busy this morning and comparing the Pinout of the Logicboard keyboard/trackpad conector between the DLSD and the non-DLSD and there seem to be very similar but I’m still not comfortable to try to interchange the two just for testing.

I will however try the AHT testsuite as suggested by @Wild Hare.
I always forget about it. Should be the first thing to try before even think about opening a device…
I also will follow @B S Magnet ‘s suggestions.

 

[philgxxd]

Looks like I need better eyes a microscope!
I couldn’t see it with my bare eyes but it seems someone pulled too hard on the connector.

You can’t see it neither on my photo but it seems the left lower corner is cracked and possibly the pins don’t make good contact anymore.
I will try to reflow it another day but when I booted up with the option key pressed while pushing down the connector with one finger I got to the bootpicker.
I tried a little more while booted fully and could eventually adjust brightness but it was very intermittent and I don’t want to put more pressure on that fragile connector.

I tried the AHT testsuite BTW but It passed everything.

 

[eyoungren]

Looks like I need better eyes a microscope!
I couldn’t see it with my bare eyes but it seems someone pulled too hard on the connector.
View attachment 2001431
You can’t see it neither on my photo but it seems the left lower corner is cracked and possibly the pins don’t make good contact anymore.
I will try to reflow it another day but when I booted up with the option key pressed while pushing down the connector with one finger I got to the bootpicker.
I tried a little more while booted fully and could eventually adjust brightness but it was very intermittent and I don’t want to put more pressure on that fragile connector.

I tried the AHT testsuite BTW but It passed everything.

There was a member here that gave me an iBook G4 once. He'd just finished installing a new HD. I wanted Leopard, so I installed it. Each and every time I tried, the installer crashed in the exact same place. So I asked him to take a look.

Turns out he'd torn the HD connector part way off the LB. Basically, the iBook was ruined (I don't have soldering skills).

In your case, looks like just replacing the ribbon cable.

 

[philgxxd]

Success!
I managed to reflow the connector with my soldering iron and that solved the problem.I also tried to repair the damaged plastic shell at the corner with a drop of SuperGlue but it didn't seem to stick to the plastic and I didn't want to overdo it.
As I happened to strip the head of one of the screws that are holding the optical drive I began to disassemble the whole machine and did a complete Overhaul.
I even took off the screen assembly because I couldn't get the Logicboard back into place without flexing the board what made me cringe.
But it all came back together very nicely and the new thermal paste helped with bringing the fans to very quiet noise levels.

 

[eyoungren]

View attachment 2004525
Success!
I managed to reflow the connector with my soldering iron and that solved the problem.I also tried to repair the damaged plastic shell at the corner with a drop of SuperGlue but it didn't seem to stick to the plastic and I didn't want to overdo it.
As I happened to strip the head of one of the screws that are holding the optical drive I began to disassemble the whole machine and did a complete Overhaul.
I even took off the screen assembly because I couldn't get the Logicboard back into place without flexing the board what made me cringe.
But it all came back together very nicely and the new thermal paste helped with bringing the fans to very quiet noise levels.

Nice!

Glad to hear it's working!