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Pro Video Card Support in Panther? G5's Delivered?
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too bad allmost all of the cards listed are discontiued
The ATi FireGL 2, 4 and 8700 are on the discontinued list, the Current ones are...
FireGL X1 which wont work because it uses AGP Pro 50, The FireGL Z1 8800 and E1
As for the Quadros, the current top end are Quadro FX GPU based boards(they use 2 slots by the way) and Quadro 4 based cards, they dont even mention the Quadro 2s on nVidia's webpage.
i dont know about yall, but i would rather have a highend gamer card in my machine then an obsolete pro card, and this is coming from a guy that has wished long and hard for a Pro grade card.
i wouldnt call this a rumor especally if they are talking about very dated cards.
PS my Dual 2ghz G5 bTO model is shiping on or before sept 2 2003 atleast it was when i checked it 20 minutes ago.
The ATi FireGL 2, 4 and 8700 are on the discontinued list, the Current ones are...
FireGL X1 which wont work because it uses AGP Pro 50, The FireGL Z1 8800 and E1
As for the Quadros, the current top end are Quadro FX GPU based boards(they use 2 slots by the way) and Quadro 4 based cards, they dont even mention the Quadro 2s on nVidia's webpage.
i dont know about yall, but i would rather have a highend gamer card in my machine then an obsolete pro card, and this is coming from a guy that has wished long and hard for a Pro grade card.
i wouldnt call this a rumor especally if they are talking about very dated cards.
PS my Dual 2ghz G5 bTO model is shiping on or before sept 2 2003 atleast it was when i checked it 20 minutes ago.
Steve said (I had the exact quote but I lost it...this is as close as I can remember) that ...we power pro cards. So you can get the really high end pro cards if that's what you want. Of course, that doesn't mean the card makers are going to provide mac roms or drivers or ACD connections for the really high-end pro cards, does it?
Nope.
The main catch with bringing Pro cards to the Mac is not hardware support, but driver development costs.
Pro cards are tuned to maintain a higher level of visual accuracy than Consumer cards as well as tend to have certifications and plug-ins for specific software packages. Getting those certifications and optimizing your drivers for detail costs money, which is why Pro Cards sell at a premium.
So, just having the hardware is not an incentive to support the platform. What does help provide an incentive are things like 25% of all new Maya purchases being for the Mac.
If that keeps up. sooner or later nVidia, ATI, or 3DLabs is going to decide the market's big enough to take a run at...
The quadro cards have hardware accellerated anti-aliased wireframe modes, very nice when you model stuff in 3D. Also, they have much better drivers for specific 3D apps (there are specific settings on the drivers for the major 3D apps) , so you pay for that extra stability (I think there are some minor viewport issues with maya on 'standard' cards).
On the PC there is an unofficial driver called 'softquadro' which supposedly transforms your standard Gforce card into a quadro. I don't think you get the anti-aliasing on wireframe though.
Bottom line is you might save some money on the card itself, but you don't get the same customer support... not sure it is worth saving that money when you are a graphics pro.
On the PC there is an unofficial driver called 'softquadro' which supposedly transforms your standard Gforce card into a quadro. I don't think you get the anti-aliasing on wireframe though.
Bottom line is you might save some money on the card itself, but you don't get the same customer support... not sure it is worth saving that money when you are a graphics pro.
Perhaps they are production machines but not the production system.
I have heard the machines were pretty much done, and Apple was waiting for the software -- presumably 10.2.7 and maybe validating/tuning the critical apps (Office, Photoshop, ...).
In this case a little ego, and maybe a little bad press. When the 2-3 days cross month boundaries, it looks a little worse.
Now if it was the difference between Sept 30 and Oct 2, that would be much worse. That would push it past Apple's quarter and some organization's (e.g., the US government) financial year. Being able to bill on Sep 30 vs Oct 2 can be a big deal.
FYI: AUG 30-31 are on a weekend, and FedEx and UPS often don't deliver then anyways.
I've been trying to get rid of the Elbonian gaming card in the PowerMac and replace it with a professional card for a long time. I was hoping for 3Dlabs support, but I'll be happy with the selections from ATI and NVIDIA for now. What the ATI Radeon card does to some graphics renderings makes me wonder how anyone can work with it. Lines flicker and disappear, pixels are missing or are the wrong colors, and there is a noticeable sluggishness when manipulating scenes. I want quality over a few extra frames per second in the latest id Software game, something Dell and Gateway 2000 were able to deliver more than five years ago by using technology from 3Dlabs. I hope that the support for the ATI and NVIDIA cards comes soon to the entire PowerMac product line, although I don't believe that I'll be completely happy until I can stick one of the Wildcat cards into the Mac and begin using it the way 3Dlabs intended.
This site features a comparison between the 3Dlabs Wildcat III, ATI Fire GL4, and NVIDIA Quadro2 Pro:
http://www.3dlabs.com/product/technology/wildcat_quality.htm
This site features a comparison between the 3Dlabs Wildcat III, ATI Fire GL4, and NVIDIA Quadro2 Pro:
http://www.3dlabs.com/product/technology/wildcat_quality.htm
OF COURSE
Sorry guys, but are you all completely on crack ?
Steve said in his keynote that they support pro cards. The AGP8 port -as is well known- gets up to 70 Watt. That solely and only makes sense with pro cards.
Easier than that, just ask Apple or read their specs. This is no frigging question and far less a rumor (even far lesser 'of uncertain reliability') but just a well-known fact.
What's next ? MacBidouille oracles that Steve Jobs might indeed be Apple's CEO... guys, time to get it
Sorry guys, but are you all completely on crack ?
Steve said in his keynote that they support pro cards. The AGP8 port -as is well known- gets up to 70 Watt. That solely and only makes sense with pro cards.
Easier than that, just ask Apple or read their specs. This is no frigging question and far less a rumor (even far lesser 'of uncertain reliability') but just a well-known fact.
What's next ? MacBidouille oracles that Steve Jobs might indeed be Apple's CEO... guys, time to get it
Re: OF COURSE
Plugging in the card is easy, and you don't even need AGP 8X for it. The problem has always been making the professional cards work with the Mac OS. I can install the Wildcat card that I want right now, but I probably won't get past the boot screen before having problems. This has always been one of the shortcomings that kept the PowerMac from becoming a professional workstation. If Apple can remedy this issue, the PowerMac would become much more appealing.
Plugging in the card is easy, and you don't even need AGP 8X for it. The problem has always been making the professional cards work with the Mac OS. I can install the Wildcat card that I want right now, but I probably won't get past the boot screen before having problems. This has always been one of the shortcomings that kept the PowerMac from becoming a professional workstation. If Apple can remedy this issue, the PowerMac would become much more appealing.
Re: Re: OF COURSE
And it seems like apple HAS to know this. I was reading something earlier today about the SGI machines being the real competition for the G5. But without the pro cards that's not true.
Then look at the market position apple has been assuming. FCP/E, Maya sales are strong, Steve just announced pixlet and there are rumors of Renderman coming to OS X. All this and then the cards you can use are all game cards?
Hey, there's an Expo coming up with the apple hardware guy giving a keynote. Maybe he's got a 3DLabs executive tagging along.
And it seems like apple HAS to know this. I was reading something earlier today about the SGI machines being the real competition for the G5. But without the pro cards that's not true.
Then look at the market position apple has been assuming. FCP/E, Maya sales are strong, Steve just announced pixlet and there are rumors of Renderman coming to OS X. All this and then the cards you can use are all game cards?
Hey, there's an Expo coming up with the apple hardware guy giving a keynote. Maybe he's got a 3DLabs executive tagging along.
Re: Re: Re: OF COURSE
In otherwords, the G5 Motherboard can support a Pro level card but there have yet to be any official announcements of such cards from ATI/nVidia/3DLabs/Whoever to use in the machines and getting them to run on the Mac is not simply a matter of taking a current one, just dropping it in the slot, and having it work.
Pixar has publicly stated they've got program running (Although whether it's suitable for production is upto debate). What they don't know, and are trying to find out, is if anyone's interested in buying it on OS X
Again, there's a difference between having hardware support built onto the board and third party manufacturer support to produce the parts to go in it.
In otherwords, the G5 Motherboard can support a Pro level card but there have yet to be any official announcements of such cards from ATI/nVidia/3DLabs/Whoever to use in the machines and getting them to run on the Mac is not simply a matter of taking a current one, just dropping it in the slot, and having it work.
Re: OF COURSE
I'm with dekator and panphage.
Why go through all the trouble to
get Maya, combustion, OpenGL etc. on OSX, then
not have the pro cards come through?
I love my Quadro on my PC, definite
improvement (in speed and features)
over a GeForce.
Sure, you can go the cheaper route like softQuadro, but you sacrifice stability.
Real time viewport manipulation, with
interactive lighting, textures, etc.
You need the pro cards.
Try manipulating a moderately complex
model -- or better yet, a whole scene with
hundreds of objects with a regular mac
video card -- and getting better than one
frame per second. You need a pro card.
Apple has been active behind the "studio
curtains", courting film/tv/post houses
to use OSX/FCP/Shake/Maya/Renderman/
AfterEffects/Combustion/Photoshop/etc.
All these studios said "Where's the Beef?".
Now that the beef has arrived (G5's),
we will start seeing the fruits of Apple's
secretive labor. Enter Pro Cards...
I'm with dekator and panphage.
Why go through all the trouble to
get Maya, combustion, OpenGL etc. on OSX, then
not have the pro cards come through?
I love my Quadro on my PC, definite
improvement (in speed and features)
over a GeForce.
Sure, you can go the cheaper route like softQuadro, but you sacrifice stability.
Real time viewport manipulation, with
interactive lighting, textures, etc.
You need the pro cards.
Try manipulating a moderately complex
model -- or better yet, a whole scene with
hundreds of objects with a regular mac
video card -- and getting better than one
frame per second. You need a pro card.
Apple has been active behind the "studio
curtains", courting film/tv/post houses
to use OSX/FCP/Shake/Maya/Renderman/
AfterEffects/Combustion/Photoshop/etc.
All these studios said "Where's the Beef?".
Now that the beef has arrived (G5's),
we will start seeing the fruits of Apple's
secretive labor. Enter Pro Cards...
3Dlabs does Linux
After years of complaining to 3Dlabs about a lack of support for anything but Microsoft Windows:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/54/31641.html
{
3Dlabs has posted Linux drivers for its Wildcat 4 and Wildcat III graphics cards, the company said today. The cards are aimed at high-end scientific and content creation applications and are pitched against Nvidia's Quadro series and ATI's FireGL cards.
The Wildcat 4 series, comprising the 7110 and 7120 AGP 8x cards, provide 256MB and 384MB of DDR SDRAM, respectively, and are capable of churning out up to 37.9 million triangles per second and 400 million pixels per second. The Wildcat III 6110 and 6210 are the previous generation of the technology.
}
Is Apple next on the list for Wildcat support?
After years of complaining to 3Dlabs about a lack of support for anything but Microsoft Windows:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/54/31641.html
{
3Dlabs has posted Linux drivers for its Wildcat 4 and Wildcat III graphics cards, the company said today. The cards are aimed at high-end scientific and content creation applications and are pitched against Nvidia's Quadro series and ATI's FireGL cards.
The Wildcat 4 series, comprising the 7110 and 7120 AGP 8x cards, provide 256MB and 384MB of DDR SDRAM, respectively, and are capable of churning out up to 37.9 million triangles per second and 400 million pixels per second. The Wildcat III 6110 and 6210 are the previous generation of the technology.
}
Is Apple next on the list for Wildcat support?
I want a Wildcat V 990 Pro 512m if possible.If we cant get 3D Labs support I could live with a Quadro FX 1000
Stu.
Stu.
G5 Production Date
I would love to see Pro Card Support in the Mac, though it doesn't help me it will be nice anyway. Rumour was on thinksecret Apple was working on this months back, so I reckon it's true.
As for PRODUCTION powermacs.....
not yet. Factory for the Powermacs is in Cork, Ireland, and they are in the process of Ramping up development. Full scale production only in first / second week of August. All the ones you've seen so far are hand built.
I would love to see Pro Card Support in the Mac, though it doesn't help me it will be nice anyway. Rumour was on thinksecret Apple was working on this months back, so I reckon it's true.
As for PRODUCTION powermacs.....
not yet. Factory for the Powermacs is in Cork, Ireland, and they are in the process of Ramping up development. Full scale production only in first / second week of August. All the ones you've seen so far are hand built.
Fingers crossed wirewyrm
No 3D labs support coming for the Mac.I mailed then to see what the chances were...reply below.
Dear Stuart,
I know this will not be the answer you want to hear but we don't currently
having any plans to support the Mac platform. To be honest with you it is
totally a matter of the huge resources required to write
professional-quality 3D drivers versus the potential market. We are now
supporting Linux and, from a strictly economic point of view, this was a
hard decision to justify.
Please don't take this as a denigration of the Mac - we truly wish we had
sufficient resources to address these excellent products.
Best regards,
Bob Sharp
At least he was nice about it
Now I want a Quadro FX 1000
Stu.
No 3D labs support coming for the Mac.I mailed then to see what the chances were
...reply below.Dear Stuart,
I know this will not be the answer you want to hear but we don't currently
having any plans to support the Mac platform. To be honest with you it is
totally a matter of the huge resources required to write
professional-quality 3D drivers versus the potential market. We are now
supporting Linux and, from a strictly economic point of view, this was a
hard decision to justify.
Please don't take this as a denigration of the Mac - we truly wish we had
sufficient resources to address these excellent products.
Best regards,
Bob Sharp
At least he was nice about it
Now I want a Quadro FX 1000
Stu.