Question for magic mouse users – any tips on how to use ergonomically?

[smirking]

Also, as someone with RSI, I find that switching devices help, so use the AMM, one of the more ergonomic Logitechs maybe, a Wacom Pen, the trackpad and so on, switch tools. Also take short breaks, do some physiotherapy and mild regular training to get the muscles to release the tension, if you find the time.

RSI made me a lot less opinionated as to what is a good device design and what's bad as a lot of my favorite devices became painful to use. It sounds like you may have had a similar journey where in your search for comfort, you were motivated to put in the time and effort to learn and practice how to use entirely new form factors or learn to use old devices in different ways.

I'm not sure if I'd have such a wide ranging perspective on input devices if my hands didn't hurt so much.

The Magic Mouse ultimately didn't work out for me because there were too many quirks for me that added up to real issues, but I really liked the idea of having a mouse crossed with a trackpad and would love to see someone else's take on that form factor. Remapping typing motions to my mouse was one of the key strategies that helped me beat RSI.

Having oodles of gestures at my disposal in the Magic Mouse and Magic Trackpad were keys way to do that until I found a 16 button mouse with all the buttons perfectly placed to my liking. It's a Roccat Tyon and I store around 30 different actions, shortcuts, and macros in it to cut down typing motions that are difficult for my hands.

 

[seggy]

RSI made me a lot less opinionated as to what is a good device design and what's bad as a lot of my favorite devices became painful to use.

The major problem for people who think with their eyes, which I'd imagine is an occupational hazard here, is that what you like typically doesn't have anything to do with actually sound ergonomics for most types of use. Look at those out there championing the Herman Miller Embody for example, one of the biggest form-over-function disasters in seating (the Aeron is just poor so not as bad even though the same entire-brain-in-eye types gravitate to it).

I've always gone with what works well, and at the first sign of trouble at trying anything new, I learned decades ago to just toss it out.

All my Magic Mice which came with all the Macs I bought spend their lives as mice for my iPad Pros when they're docked by their usually assigned desks (every computer desk I have has an accompanying iPad Pro as a side companion), along with the Magic Keyboard. Each mouse probably gets used about 10 minutes a year at most in this capacity, which seems about the right amount of time for this POS.

 

[smirking]

The major problem for people who think with their eyes, which I'd imagine is an occupational hazard here, is that what you like typically doesn't have anything to do with actually sound ergonomics for most types of use...

I agree that we have a societal problem of form over function, but I'm also going to say that just because a product doesn't work for you, doesn't mean it's terrible. I've owned the Aeron chair and also hated it, but I can understand why some people really love it.

I have professional training in ergonomics and used to give ergonomics consultations. I'll admit that even with proper training that should have made me wiser than the average device using person, you often don't see the hows and whys of something until you meet the person that it suits perfectly.

This isn't to say a lot of polarizing products aren't just flawed designs that got lucky and found an ideal niche, but it does illustrate that there are a lot of people who aren't well served by consensus ergonomics. You may find devices like the Magic Mouse to be examples of bad extremist design, but for many people (women being a very easy example) the most popular form factors are actually the bad extremist designs because they were made to be ergonomic for a body that's very different from theirs.

 

[Fennec1212]

For those who have RSI issues, I got advice from an ergo consultant years ago to move the mouse to my left hand (I am right handed). It took a week or two to get used to it but never gone back. This spreads the use to my off hand and also allows me to center the keyboard. With numpad on the right side, it is hard to use your right hand on a mouse in a neutral manor without moving your keyboard.

Magic Mouse is nice if you want to swap what is a “right” click as well but you can also just train your mind for what you think a right click should be. lol

 

[seggy]

I mean - assuming you are actually right handed and not trained to be right handed, that is just moving wear and tear over to the other side. There are/were? probably other fundamental unresolved issues in your setup but any advice that delays full RSI related issues for anyone who doesn't have an innate idea how to handle it is a good thing I suppose.

I actually quite miss the last mouse before the horrific Magics. I know many people complained about the trackball getting jammed but since I never sat at my desk computing while eating Cheetos or god knows what else people were doing, I never had any issues with it - and that trackball was wonderful. Shame about the rest of the mouse, the actual mousing electronics were pretty bad (the Magic is pretty terrible as well so no loss there) and of course the fact that you had to remember to have your finger off one "button" if you wanted the other to be detected, but the shape was also quite a bit better than the Magic.

I really don't know though how anyone especially with an ergo issue can continue to use a Magic unless it's just a matter of 'Apple is best no matter what', or like in my case 'well it came with the Macs so might as well use it for something else I don't usually care about'.
The " " button " " requires an extraordinary amount of force (in the overall scheme of decent mice) to actuate and the tracking axis is off, the tracking itself is objectively terrible, the button response itself is objectively terrible and the shape is godawful. But hey - Apple, right?

 

[smirking]

I mean - assuming you are actually right handed and not trained to be right handed, that is just moving wear and tear over to the other side... that delays full RSI related issues for anyone who doesn't have an innate idea how to handle it is a good thing I suppose.

I used to be a physical therapist with a focus on workplace ergonomics. That's a sound strategy... albeit a difficult one for most people to handle.

Also, just because a device doesn't work for you, doesn't mean it doesn't work for people with smaller hands or a different techniques for handling a mouse.

Ergonomics is literally not a one size fits all kind of thing.

 

[seggy]

Also, just because a device doesn't work for you, doesn't mean it doesn't work for people with smaller hands or a different techniques for handling a mouse.

Absolutely - but objectively bad doesn't stop being objectively bad in general.

Ergonomics is literally not a one size fits all kind of thing.

I'm gonna have to whip out my inner 9 year old and say duh

Also, you're consistently defending for ergonomics a company that makes sometimes incredibly poor engineering decisions in the name of design. Not ergonomics. Design.

 

[Nhwhazup]

I just gave my Magic Mouse away for this very reason - not comfortable at all with any lengthy usage.

 

[AZhappyjack]

I used to be a physical therapist with a focus on workplace ergonomics. That's a sound strategy... albeit a difficult one for most people to handle.

Also, just because a device doesn't work for you, doesn't mean it doesn't work for people with smaller hands or a different techniques for handling a mouse.

Ergonomics is literally not a one size fits all kind of thing.

Exactly... to quote Steve Jobs, "you're holding it wrong".

Actually, that is partly true... over my years of personal computing, I've noticed that in general terms, people hold the mouse one of two ways:

1. Wrist up, finger tips only touching/moving/controlling the mouse.
2. Palming the mouse with thumb and pinky pretty much off the mouse and on the desktop.

For the first group, the MM can be difficult/uncomfortable.

For the second group (of which I am a member), I find it quite comfortable and intuitive.

But the bottom line is simply that if it doesn't work for you (uncomfortable to use, painful to use), then pick something else... but for the rest of us, it just works. It's not a "bad mouse" or "crappy kit" just because you don't like it or it doesn't work for you...

My only annoyance is that the charge port is on the bottom of the mouse, so it's out of commission when it's charging.

 

[AZhappyjack]

Absolutely - but objectively bad doesn't stop being objectively bad in general.

To restate the obvious, "bad for you" doesn't equate to "bad for everyone". That's why Mr Baskins and Mr Robbins have 31 ice cream flavors.

 

[seggy]

But the bottom line is simply that if it doesn't work for you (uncomfortable to use, painful to use), then pick something else... but for the rest of us, it just works. It's not a "bad mouse" or "crappy kit" just because you don't like it or it doesn't work for you...

My only annoyance is that the charge port is on the bottom of the mouse, so it's out of commission when it's charging.

You might have missed the part about objectively bad for all but the most 'I move and click like a grandma' types. It's tracking is objectively bad, there is a significant force required to physically activate the buttons over and above that of an actual high quality mouse (and that even assumes the operating load is applied at the very edge of the mouse where it requires the least effort), the point at which the sensor tracks is not the centre of the mouse movement axis' (unless you're holding it doing an approximate impression of a two year old clutching a crayon which I absolutely won't rule out for some of those grandma types), and furthermore the button signalling isn't consistent. The issues are driven by the operational and shape requirements of the design, and the majority of these compromises were taken due to the design required vs packaging compromises.

And that's leaving the shape of the mouse completely outside of the equation, which is far too subject to 'you're holding it wrong'.

The charge port is one of the just as dumb things, done again for design reasons. The mouse is practically indefensible from a functional PoV unless design means everything to you.

I find it had to believe that if you're looking at the rest of the product line and seeing the same compromises over and over again (and obviously in a HID it manifests itself more noticeably) it's not something that you realise. And the keyboard is, you could argue, an outlier case where some degree of ergonomic soundness was an accidental outcome of the design requirements from 2007 onwards.

That's twice I've had to repeat myself saying basically the same thing but more verbose, I'm not doing it again.

 

[bluespark]

I spent quite a few years doing work for the Display Screen Ergonomics industry / helped train thousands of users across the public and private sectors.

Ergonomically there is nothing wrong with the Apple Mouse.

Ergonomically you want the wrist to be as flat as possible - this means the Apple mouse is about as ergonomic as you can get as it is so nice and flat.

Ergonomically you want your chair to be at the correct height so your arms are at a 90 degree angle and your wrist flat. Arm rests on your chair can help achieve this. Wrist rests can be useful if you do not have a flat mouse, i.e. to raise your wrist so it is flat when using a tall mouse.

Lots of people don't care about being ergonomic for health reasons - they care more about functionality at the long-term expense of their wrists - these people denigrate the Apple mouse.

I'm late to this thread, but this is exactly right. The Magic Mouse is much more ergonomic than most mice out there, and in particular is more ergonomic than large mice that are contoured to fit a user's palm. However, whether or not any particular user enjoys the benefit of the Magic Mouse depends greatly on how it is held. If you use a light finger grip, it works extremely well and can help you avoid certain types of mouse-related injuries. If you use a palm grip, you'll never like it.

It's a moot issue for me, as I have to use a vertical mouse for medical reasons. And it is seriously dated at this point. But one shouldn't discount the Magic Mouse as an ergonomic solution.

 

[MacGizmo]

I found the MM to be the best overall mouse on the market for battery life, accuracy, and touch features. Unfortunately, it's also the most uncomfortable mouse on the market to actually use.

I had these $15 Magic Grips from Elevation Labs for years that made the MM useable for me. Then there's this thing that adds a large palm cushion for another $13 – I've never used it, but it's certainly addressing one of the issues of the MM. There's also a "sled" version for $30.

All that being said, it's still not as good as just buying a Logitech MXS mouse, which I love using and has the benefit of being able to use in wired mode (via the charging cable) if you need to.

 

[Apple Knowledge Navigator]

Can’t go wrong with the Logitech ‘Master’ series mice. They allow you to rotate your wrist to a neutral-grip position for a comfortable position. They even do a left-handed version 😎

The Magic Mouse is only comfortable if you’re willing to forgo the gestures. I mean, the two-finger swipe one is just ridiculous - what sort of contorted sorcery is that?

 

[salamanderjuice]

Can’t go wrong with the Logitech ‘Master’ series mice. They allow you to rotate your wrist to a neutral-grip position for a comfortable position. They even do a left-handed version 😎

The Magic Mouse is only comfortable if you’re willing to forgo the gestures. I mean, the two-finger swipe one is just ridiculous - what sort of contorted sorcery is that?

There is no left handed MX Master. They make an almost ambidextrous one, but they in typical Logitech fashion put two thumb buttons designed to be usable by the right thumb. Sure, it's not completely uncomfortable in the left hand and maybe you can awkwardly use the thumb buttons with your left pinky but really it's not a left handed mouse.

Neither is the Magic mouse, it's ambidextrous but it doesn't have any way to swap left/right click in hardware which IMO is annoying on modern OSs (including macOS) because software methods never include the login/lock screen even if there's one user because god-forbid a right handed person might try to use it or something.

 

[Apple Knowledge Navigator]

There is no left handed MX Master. They make an almost ambidextrous one, but they in typical Logitech fashion put two thumb buttons designed to be usable by the right thumb. Sure, it's not completely uncomfortable in the left hand and maybe you can awkwardly use the thumb buttons with your left pinky but really it's not a left handed mouse.

Neither is the Magic mouse, it's ambidextrous but it doesn't have any way to swap left/right click in hardware which IMO is annoying on modern OSs (including macOS) because software methods never include the login/lock screen even if there's one user because god-forbid a right handed person might try to use it or something.

Should have clarified; it's the MX shape but doesn't have all the same features.

I have it, it's wonderful for us lefties!

 

[AZhappyjack]

Can’t go wrong with the Logitech ‘Master’ series mice. They allow you to rotate your wrist to a neutral-grip position for a comfortable position. They even do a left-handed version 😎

The Magic Mouse is only comfortable if you’re willing to forgo the gestures. I mean, the two-finger swipe one is just ridiculous - what sort of contorted sorcery is that?

I disagree. I use the Magic Mouse all day, every day... and gestures are no issue whatsoever... You forego the gestures completely with any mouse that is not the Magic Mouse.

 

[ader42]

I disagree. I use the Magic Mouse all day, every day... and gestures are no issue whatsoever... You forego the gestures completely with any mouse that is not the Magic Mouse.

As do I.

Using gestures with the Magic Mouse is a joy for me.

 

[MacGizmo]

I disagree. I use the Magic Mouse all day, every day... and gestures are no issue whatsoever... You forego the gestures completely with any mouse that is not the Magic Mouse.

The Logitech MX series offers gestures... the same ones the Magic Mouse does. It's not a "touch" gesture, but a push and slide gesture on the base of the thumb pad.

 

[Makisupa Policeman]

There is a correct way to hold it which will help the ergonomics tremendously. I hated it at first but after watching a few videos (I think the one you linked about was one of the best) and changing the way I held it I started to like it better.

What’s difficult is that you don’t hold it like a traditional mouse, so going from a regular one to the MM can take a lot of getting used to and you may even experience discomfort at first. Give it two weeks holding it the correct way though and it will get much better.

A regular mouse is fine to use but the nice advantage of MM is ability to use the multi touch gestures like the Magic Trackpad.

 

[xraydoc]

Just wanted to resurrect this old thread for the following-

Found this interesting product on Amazon. Lifts up the Magic Mouse to a "normal" height, gives it something for your fingers to hang on to, and incorporates a MagSafe charging pad on the bottom of the unit (still can't use it while charging, but you don't have to dig out a Lightning cable and flip over the mouse to plug it in). Does add weight, so that may or may not be a negative for you.

Bought one in black for my black Magic Mouse and it's actually working quite well. No product affiliation, just posting for informational purposes.

TATOFY for Magic Mouse 2 Grip with Wireless Charging Support, Magic Mouse 2 Charger, Magic Mouse Ergonomic Grip & Mouse Base (Black)

TATOFY Magic Mouse 2 base. Enhance grip of Magic Mouse 2. Make Magic Mouse 2 support wireless charging. Perfect Magic Mouse accessory.

www.amazon.com