Reccomended Business PC for CCTV - HP vs Dell vs Lenovo, etc

[A.Goldberg]

Hi Everyone,

I am looking to replace my company's PC running Blue Iris CCTV software. We currently have an older HP ProDesk SFF 4th Gen Intel i5 but am looking to upgrade to an i7. I'd like to stay with the SFF form factor as it fits nicely on a rack. The HP has been fine but the software has issues with memory leaks in the Intel integrated graphics- I fixed this switching to and older driver but after a couple years its happening again despite using the same driver. We've recently had some other intermittent probable hardware issues with it that I can't sort out- it's a 6-7 YO PC that I've been running 24hrs straight for the past few years. I actually never intended to use this PC for this purpose but it was laying around worked good enough. (Most of our cameras are set to 720p, with a few at 1080p and 15-20fps and our normal CPU utilization is around 30%).

It seems Dell only has 2 PCI expansion slots while HP and Lenovo have 4- which may come in handy for extra video cards, dual LAN, eSATA, etc. We need two internal HDD bays, including at one 3.5" for the CCTV-grade hard drive + a bay for the OS SSD.

Does anyone have a recommendation on HP vs Dell vs Lenovo, etc, especially in terms of reliability?

I really loath Windows and all the driver nonsense... I'm also considering an M1 Mac Mini which sounds ideal for decoding video, but that means changing the software which I really don't want to have to reprogram and I have some concerns about expandability. Apparently SecuritySpy is optimized for M1 now.

Thanks!

 

[maflynn]

You really can't go wrong with a Thinkpad.

 

[IowaLynn]

If only Windows would support Thunderbolt 3, a Mac Mini 2020 Intel 32-64GB RAM, 1-2TB PCIe-SSD, and OWC's TB3 external expansion, Plus eGPU. Running Windows. I run Windows on mine and its really dream come true of all the PCs and MacPro I've used.

 

[Erehy Dobon]

You really can't go wrong with a Thinkpad.

Except for the fact that OP wants a SFF that he can fit on a rack not a notebook computer and specifically points out he wants one with at least one 3.5" internal HDD bay.

Do many Thinkpads have an internal 3.5" HDD bay today?

The OP needs to make some decisions about whether or not to upgrade the CCTV software and system itself since it sounds like at least some of the headaches are coming from that side.

The M1 Mac mini does not have an internal 3.5" HDD bay for what it's worth. The Mac mini in its current form has zero internal expansion possibilities. Everything would have to be done via Thunderbolt/USC-C connected peripherals.

Personally I would likely lean toward another HP or Dell corporate box.

 

[Stephen.R]

Hi Everyone,

I am looking to replace my company's PC running Blue Iris CCTV software. We currently have an older HP ProDesk SFF 4th Gen Intel i5 but am looking to upgrade to an i7. I'd like to stay with the SFF form factor as it fits nicely on a rack. The HP has been fine but the software has issues with memory leaks in the Intel integrated graphics- I fixed this switching to and older driver but after a couple years its happening again despite using the same driver. We've recently had some other intermittent probable hardware issues with it that I can't sort out- it's a 6-7 YO PC that I've been running 24hrs straight for the past few years. I actually never intended to use this PC for this purpose but it was laying around worked good enough. (Most of our cameras are set to 720p, with a few at 1080p and 15-20fps and our normal CPU utilization is around 30%).

It seems Dell only has 2 PCI expansion slots while HP and Lenovo have 4- which may come in handy for extra video cards, dual LAN, eSATA, etc. We need two internal HDD bays, including at one 3.5" for the CCTV-grade hard drive + a bay for the OS SSD.

Does anyone have a recommendation on HP vs Dell vs Lenovo, etc, especially in terms of reliability?

I really loath Windows and all the driver nonsense... I'm also considering an M1 Mac Mini which sounds ideal for decoding video, but that means changing the software which I really don't want to have to reprogram and I have some concerns about expandability. Apparently SecuritySpy is optimized for M1 now.

Thanks!

How many cameras are you running?

I’ve had great success with SecuritySpy, even using essentially no-name (I mean they have a brand but I doubt it’s known anywhere outside of cheap Asian market sites) cameras.

personally I’d take the one time hit to set it up using a Mac than keep dealing with windows.

 

[A.Goldberg]

You really can't go wrong with a Thinkpad.

Thinkpads are my preferred PC laptop- in fact I refuse to upgrade my hospitals (other job) issued T450 despite attempts to upgrade to a newer HP. But a laptop to run CCTV with an energy efficient laptop processor probably isn’t ideal, not to mention storage and expansion limitations (ie internal 3.5” CCTV-grade HDD).

If only Windows would support Thunderbolt 3, a Mac Mini 2020 Intel 32-64GB RAM, 1-2TB PCIe-SSD, and OWC's TB3 external expansion, Plus eGPU. Running Windows. I run Windows on mine and its really dream come true of all the PCs and MacPro I've used.

The windows software I use (BlueIris) is actually optimized for Intel integrated graphics for H.264/265, using additional GPU (Nvidia I believe they support) in most cases actually ends up bogging things down.

The Mac software I’m looking at (SecuritySpy) apparently supports eGPUs, though I’m not sure it’s even necessary. I don’t think the M1 minis support eGPU’s at this time, but it may not even be necessary as the Apple Silicon seems to do a pretty good job with encoding/decoding as it is.

 

[Stephen.R]

The Mac software I’m looking at (SecuritySpy) apparently supports eGPUs, though I’m not sure it’s even necessary.

I’ve run SecuritySpy with 4 1080p streams on an i7 2018 mini with no egpu for a couple of years.

Unless you intend to reencode the video from the cameras SecuritySpy should be pretty efficient.

 

[Erehy Dobon]

With the proper software Macs will do H.264/H.265 encoding/decoding in hardware via VideoToolbox. On Intel Macs it is done in the T2 Security Chip. One Apple Silicon systems, it is done in the image processing circuitry of the SoC. M1 Macs do not support eGPUs.

Ultimately it's going to come down to you deciding whether or not you want to make a leap to SecuritySpy and if you can accept the fact that all of the Mac's expansion will be done externally.

An Intel Mac mini + eGPU would be another candidate but good luck trying to find a decent & compatible Radeon graphics card right now.

I would expect that the Mac mini would have a lower system administration load over time than a Windows PC.

 

[A.Goldberg]

How many cameras are you running?

I’ve had great success with SecuritySpy, even using essentially no-name (I mean they have a brand but I doubt it’s known anywhere outside of cheap Asian market sites) cameras.

personally I’d take the one time hit to set it up using a Mac than keep dealing with windows.

+ @Erehy Dobon

14 Cameras at the moment. Probably going to expand another 3-5.

90% of the world’s cameras are made by Chinese companies Dahua and Hikvision, and nearly all of them use RTSP and ONVIF for universal use. All my cameras are Dahua and cost $50-80. It’s far cheaper than using the few non-Chinese brands- I just have them isolated a vLAN with a firewall to block them from phoning home back to China.

I am very tempted to switch to Mac, but already have a license for the PC software which works fine. It’s really the PC environment that annoys me. The one thing about SecuritySpy is the licensing costs- 16 cameras is $450+ and $750+ for 32, the next package up. I’m not sure I can justify the cost myself, let alone to my partners

 

[Stephen.R]

Right I can’t comment on how well it runs with that many but like I said if you’re not reencoding the streams resource usage should be pretty reasonable.

I thought you could buy a license and then upgrade an arbitrary amount but I can’t find the page where I saw that info now (on phone). I’ll check it in the morning at the computer and post back if I find that info.

 

[Thysanoptera]

If it needs to be in rack and budget is an issue look around for old used rack mount servers in your area, they usually very cheap. Ivy Bridge and above have h.264, for h.265 you need 6th gen or higher.

 

[Jglez]

Hi there,
I have used Blueiris before for running CCTV in large buildings with lots of cameras.

From my point of view seeing how resource intensive this is, you would need a Rackable server rather than a laptop. You can find trusty Dell PowerEdge(s) second hand on second hand websites. You probably know the best website one for area. Normally for 100-200€ you will get something like a 2x Quad Core + some HDDs. These servers come with RAID cards so you could use this either to connect your drives in RAID 0 for speed or RAID 1 for redundancy.

Best!

 

[A.Goldberg]

If it needs to be in rack and budget is an issue look around for old used rack mount servers in your area, they usually very cheap. Ivy Bridge and above have h.264, for h.265 you need 6th gen or higher.

The whole rack mount scenario isn’t really a deal breaker. The SFF fits on a shelf I installed. Worst case I could get a tower to fit. If I was super ambitious I could build a server to potentially transplant a desktop to a server chassis, but it’s not that important to me.

Hi there,
I have used Blueiris before for running CCTV in large buildings with lots of cameras.

From my point of view seeing how resource intensive this is, you would need a Rackable server rather than a laptop. You can find trusty Dell PowerEdge(s) second hand on second hand websites. You probably know the best website one for area. Normally for 100-200€ you will get something like a 2x Quad Core + some HDDs. These servers come with RAID cards so you could use this either to connect your drives in RAID 0 for speed or RAID 1 for redundancy.

Best!

Yeah I’m not sure where this laptop conversation is coming from haha. Aren’t nearly all servers Xeons? I though Xeons for the most part lacked Quicksync video encoding- though maybe that’s just older Xeons? I suppose my other concern would be finding another video card to fit in it if I needed to.

The current HP desktop is an i5 4570, 8GB RAM, and an NVIDIA card to display the live view so the integrated graphics can handle the video feeds. As I mentioned this is running 14 cameras at 720p + 1080p and 15-20fps + motion sensing on several cameras + the BI UI3 webserver + live view and the CPU utilization hovers around 30%.

I haven’t yet paid to upgrade to the new version (6.3+?), I’m on 6.2.5 if IIRC. I should probably make the upgrade. The one big feature I wish they offered was multi-camera playback. In other words so you can scrub through all of multiple feeds at the same time rather than one by one.

When I installed the cameras originally we began with 4 cameras. I figured I’d just try it out on this unused PC we had laying around. Then we moved up to 8 and then 14. After working out the units quirks, it’s worked fine for the past couple years. But I suspect this computer is wearing itself out given the 24hr/365 use + the nature of the problems occurring... but that’s another discussion.

 

[Thysanoptera]

Aren’t nearly all servers Xeons? I though Xeons for the most part lacked Quicksync video encoding- though maybe that’s just older Xeons? I suppose my other concern would be finding another video card to fit in it if I needed to.

The ones with iGPU have Quicksync, just like desktop parts.