Replacing MBP 16" PC due to CSAM?

[crymimefireworks]

Greetings,
For those of you switching, how are you going about making a choice? Since MacOS and Windows are off the table, Linux is a must. Thankfully there are a few Linux-first models appearing:

Here's the options I see:

1. Dell XPS 13 Developer Edition - Ubuntu already installed, apparently supported by Dell drivers, better than just a regular Dell with Linux
2. System76 Lemur 14" - Linux first devices, run Pop OS, open source hardware and software. System76 has other laptop options but this one seems simplest.
3. Purism Librem 14" - Linux first, runs Pure OS

Have to say, I've only ever bought Macs. Apple makes the choice easy, whereas with Dell you can even buy a different resolution screen.

Dell seems like a safe choice so that's tempting for a temporary switch (but their values aren't aligned, I would probably switch brands in the future).

System76 is innovative and supports open source, so I could see being a long term customer. Similar with Purism. Anyone familiar with the build quality and functionality? I'd appreciate experience.

"It just works" is hard to beat, I'm aware what I'm giving up.

 

[minik]

I recently bought myself a Lenovo ThinkPad X1 Nano to replace my 2-year old Microsoft Surface (that won't run Windows 11). It works pretty well under the current Windows 11 beta. Lenovo offers different Linux distros on models out of the box. Personally I am not a fan of any DELL XPS line.

 

[dukebound85]

or........just don't upgrade from Big Sur?

 

[crymimefireworks]

I recently bought myself a Lenovo ThinkPad X1 Nano to replace my 2-year old Microsoft Surface (that won't run Windows 11). It works pretty well under the current Windows 11 beta. Lenovo offers different Linux distros on models out of the box. Personally I am not a fan of any DELL XPS line.

Can you expand more upon this? What don't you like about Dell XPS?

I left Lenovo off the list because of what I read about Silverfish. Installing firmware level software to break security and add ads is proactively against what I want. Thoughts?

 

[CasualFanboy]

I'm pondering the same near-future purchasing decision. My 2016 mbp is doing fine (despite the keyboard), but my next purchase will definitely not be with Apple, since I have disliked their general direction since the death of Steve Jobs and possibly even slightly before that. Now it's getting intolerable.

I'm extremely skeptical of Dell's compatibility, especially if it's even slightly outside of their prescribed path. And I find nothing particularly impressive about their hardware design.

System76 is a likely contender for me. GNOME shell is not my style, but they (PopOS devs) have even shown a willingness to build significant new features into the shell aimed at pleasing their user base. Their video driver support won't be as narrow and specific as Dell's would be, because I have found it works fine with non-System76 hardware.

I will soup this baby up significantly, and it may not even be much cheaper ultimately, but at least my hardware is mine, and not subject to scanning or being bricked by some new "innovation."

 

[CasualFanboy]

On top of all this, Apple is focused way too much on their phones. Even the things being integrated into their other products have a "mobile first" aesthetic with the goal being to make your non-phone more and more indistinguishable from a dumbed-down touch device. I can't stand the post-Catalina interface.

 

[CasualFanboy]

Can you expand more upon this? What don't you like about Dell XPS?

I left Lenovo off the list because of what I read about Silverfish. Installing firmware level software to break security and add ads is proactively against what I want. Thoughts?

Last time I used XPS it ran hot and noisy, with fairly low-standard graphics for a supposed premium line, and a 13" screen isn't something I'm interested in. 15" is the best compromise of screen space and mobility.

 

[crymimefireworks]

I'm pondering the same near-future purchasing decision. My 2016 mbp is doing fine (despite the keyboard), but my next purchase will definitely not be with Apple, since I have disliked their general direction since the death of Steve Jobs and possibly even slightly before that. Now it's getting intolerable.

I'm extremely skeptical of Dell's compatibility, especially if it's even slightly outside of their prescribed path. And I find nothing particularly impressive about their hardware design.

System76 is a likely contender for me. GNOME shell is not my style, but they (PopOS devs) have even shown a willingness to build significant new features into the shell aimed at pleasing their user base. Their video driver support won't be as narrow and specific as Dell's would be, because I have found it works fine with non-System76 hardware.

I will soup this baby up significantly, and it may not even be much cheaper ultimately, but at least my hardware is mine, and not subject to scanning or being bricked by some new "innovation."

Thanks that's helpful. You're right, Dell isn't as tied to Linux it's just a side project. So put me in for System76 or Purism. Thoughts on Purism?

Also what System76 model are you planning to get? I like the Lemur 14, seems along the lines of a Macbook Air. The other models with off center trackpads seem like a non starter for me.

 

[CasualFanboy]

I don't know a lot about Purism, but the name implies they may be extremely focused on the Richard Stallman model of refusing to support any non-GPL technology. It sounds nice but not always practical or even relevant. To me a closed source Nvidia driver is just a protection of intellectual property, but I could be naive on that one.

I know I looked a while back at a few open-source vendors, but not sure if Purism was one of them. And I didn't see anything that impressed me more than System76, especially in terms of a visible involvement and investment in Linux that matches System76's.

It's been a while now, but I just looked at System76, and if I was buying today, my first instinct is the Pangolin... although it isn't even currently available. I would have to look more closely, but it seems to fit my preferences pretty well. I actively don't want an Nvidia graphics card due to the inherent hassle and additional heat.

 

[crymimefireworks]

Appreciate the context!

I'm a fan of System76, they're Linux first, open source, and do a good job at it.

Purism's focus is on privacy and anti-surveillance.
So the challenge with that as a customer is they're Linux first, open source, AND focus on privacy.

Purism takes that a step forward into kill switches at the hardware level. I thought Purism had a step above System76 in terms of open hardware, but haven't seen that in my browsing.

I just installed PureOS (Purism's OS) and PoP OS (System76s) in Parallels. Will test drive both.

 

[ikir]

Greetings,
For those of you switching, how are you going about making a choice? Since MacOS and Windows are off the table, Linux is a must. Thankfully there are a few Linux-first models appearing:

Here's the options I see:

1. Dell XPS 13 Developer Edition - Ubuntu already installed, apparently supported by Dell drivers, better than just a regular Dell with Linux
2. System76 Lemur 14" - Linux first devices, run Pop OS, open source hardware and software. System76 has other laptop options but this one seems simplest.
3. Purism Librem 14" - Linux first, runs Pure OS

Have to say, I've only ever bought Macs. Apple makes the choice easy, whereas with Dell you can even buy a different resolution screen.

Dell seems like a safe choice so that's tempting for a temporary switch (but their values aren't aligned, I would probably switch brands in the future).

System76 is innovative and supports open source, so I could see being a long term customer. Similar with Purism. Anyone familiar with the build quality and functionality? I'd appreciate experience.

"It just works" is hard to beat, I'm aware what I'm giving up.

This is absurd. You are switching base of a hash match? You understand nobody is watching your photos? This ia a mathematical hash to identify know CSAM photos, the DB is creating mixing two separate non governative database. You know other actively scan for CSAM? Like Google and Facebook?

 

[maflynn]

This ia a mathematical hash to identify know CSAM photos

The issue is, for a company that marketed itself as a champion of privacy is now suddenly accessing people's devices. Tthe means don't justify the ends. Its a slippery slope of having big brother accessing your data, today it will be one reason, and tomorrow it will be another.

 

[rme]

Greetings,
For those of you switching, how are you going about making a choice? Since MacOS and Windows are off the table, Linux is a must. Thankfully there are a few Linux-first models appearing:

Here's the options I see:

1. Dell XPS 13 Developer Edition - Ubuntu already installed, apparently supported by Dell drivers, better than just a regular Dell with Linux
2. System76 Lemur 14" - Linux first devices, run Pop OS, open source hardware and software. System76 has other laptop options but this one seems simplest.
3. Purism Librem 14" - Linux first, runs Pure OS

Have to say, I've only ever bought Macs. Apple makes the choice easy, whereas with Dell you can even buy a different resolution screen.

Dell seems like a safe choice so that's tempting for a temporary switch (but their values aren't aligned, I would probably switch brands in the future).

System76 is innovative and supports open source, so I could see being a long term customer. Similar with Purism. Anyone familiar with the build quality and functionality? I'd appreciate experience.

"It just works" is hard to beat, I'm aware what I'm giving up.

I'm going to get the framework laptop myself. https://frame.work

 

[mo5214]

I'd say no need to be alarmed. as on macOS, you have control over the services that are run on it. For example, you can use use launchctl or GUI app, LaunchControl to turn services on and off. Though you might need a dedicated Firewall to check now that Apple forces software firewall like Little snitch to use network extension that may whitelist Apple's own services.

 

[minik]

Can you expand more upon this? What don't you like about Dell XPS?

I left Lenovo off the list because of what I read about Silverfish. Installing firmware level software to break security and add ads is proactively against what I want. Thoughts?

Although I have never heard of the SuperFish vulnerability, Lenovo stopped pre-loading the software years ago. At the end of the day, it is still a Chinese company and I don't use it for banking or online shopping. The Mac is still my primary computer of choice.

At work DELL is the sole vendor for PC, the quality control is subpar especially swollen batteries, bad webcams, screen flickering. I'm not sure the current generation of XPS line, the previous XPS felt cheap and flimsy

 

[CasualFanboy]

I'm going to get the framework laptop myself. https://frame.work

> Ships with Windows 10

This looks like a decent product and idea, but why does it have to ship with Windows? What are they offering that all non-Apple companies aren't?

And only offered in 13.5" screens.

Nope.

 

[ikir]

The issue is, for a company that marketed itself as a champion of privacy is now suddenly accessing people's devices. Tthe means don't justify the ends. Its a slippery slope of having big brother accessing your data, today it will be one reason, and tomorrow it will be another.

Apple created a method for fighting child abuse without compromising privacy, the others instead are just scanning photo library. You and many others are reading things which doesn't exist at all. Apple is still a champion of privacy, and this complex system is a proof, it is much more easier or cheaper to scan images than matching hash DB.

 

[rme]

> Ships with Windows 10

This looks like a decent product and idea, but why does it have to ship with Windows? What are they offering that all non-Apple companies aren't?

And only offered in 13.5" screens.

Nope.

You can order the DIY version without windows. They make it very easy to swap components.

 

[CasualFanboy]

At work DELL is the sole vendor for PC, the quality control is subpar especially swollen batteries, bad webcams, screen flickering. I'm not sure the current generation of XPS line, the previous XPS felt cheap and flimsy

The laptop bought specifically for my team members by the geniuses in our IT department isn't an XPS but a very spec'd out Precision 7700.

It is the absolute worst piece of **** I've ever used with any non-Windows operating system. The video cards, keyboard (not even backlit), touchpad (80 grit sandpaper), thunderbolt docking station (randomly stops recognizing almost everything). And Windows is not even a worthwhile consideration to me.

 

[CasualFanboy]

You can order the DIY version without windows. They make it very easy to swap components.

Yeah they do focus on respecting the owner which I love, but that 13" screen though. It would only be viable if used as a permanently docked workstation with external monitors, in which case it's not a laptop at all.

 

[LeeW]

Apple is still a champion of privacy

You can believe that but it's simply not true. Once a company starts to intentionally scan your device looking for something you can't consider them a champion of privacy. Wrap it up however you chose, this action is an invasion of that privacy they said was so important to them and you.

 

[CasualFanboy]

I just installed PureOS (Purism's OS) and PoP OS (System76s) in Parallels. Will test drive both.

I'd be interested to hear what you think about PureOS. Feel free to DM me if you have anything significant to share or don't want to make/continue a thread about it....

 

[HyperliteG4]

Sign the privacy letter here: https://appleprivacyletter.com

 

[BeefCake 15]

I love Linux and wish it goes mainstream but there is way too much to mess with than I want to do anymore at this point of my life. I still keep it for my older devices as Linux breathes a new life to an old laptop.

 

[CalMin]

First of all, no-one should have CSAM on their devices. There's no excuse, no reason it should it exist and if it's on your device I hope they throw away the key when they find you for all the harm you have done, whether you were involved in it's production or simply downloaded and consumed it. There is no place for you in society.

--

Next - I'm really not that worried about the privacy aspect. Apple has taken the wrong path here, but it's not one that I am bothered by personally. I keep everything in the cloud and, in doing so, I assume that pretty much all of my stuff is scanned already. My photos are in Google, Amazon and iCloud as well as locally on my devices. My personal files are scattered through dropbox, Google, iCloud Drive and OneDrive. I know the risks, but really, my personal stuff is not that interesting.

The only thing that might push me to another platform is if my business customers stop letting me use my Apple devices on their networks because of this knuckle-headed decision by Apple. Most of my clients are very protective about their intellectual property so up until now, me using a Mac with FileVault encryption and good security practices has been fine. Now there's a sense that these devices have a backdoor in them and they might start pushing me to use other platforms - which would suck.