Rumored NFC Chip for iPhone 6 Highlighted in Claimed Schematic

[Rootus]

I suspect most people wouldn't know what "NFC" means. But, a few more might recognize "Paywave" (MasterCard) or "Paypass" (VISA) and know what it means.

However, I think the number of people that even know what the symbol on their credit card means (it looks like the WiFi signal icon on the iPhone, turned sideways) is still relatively small.

I've used "PayPass" at several places. But, an NFC terminal has been relatively rare.

I agree. If you're not toting around an NFC capable phone right now, chances are you don't realize you're looking at NFC-capable terminals all over the place. It just isn't called NFC. It's very handy, but I think it will be better when the providers converge and the wireless carriers stop trying to force their way into the market.

 

[1Zach1]

So what's your exact job description at Apple?

Team Lead - Misdirection Group - Double Down on Secrecy Division

 

[kdarling]

There is nothing in the EMV spec that requires NFC.

Still, EVMCo has deliberately made sure that NFC equipped devices can talk to EVM contactless terminals.

• EMV uses the ISO 14443 comm protocol for contactless cards. This is not NFC, but...
  
  
  
• ...NFC is derived from and back compatible with ISO 14443, allowing mobile devices to both emulate contactless cards, PLUS do much more because of their comms and display.
  
  

Matter of fact I bet if you asked the general public here if they had even HEARD of NFC, much less what it can be used for, more than half would say they had never even heard of it.

Most people have heard of tap and go cards, such as the ones used at gas stations or transit terminals.

Though with that said, if Apple actually put it in their devices and had a use for it then I would have no doubt in my mind that it would start to garner more attention and use.

Yep.

First, the current generation of tags are the cheapest design out there without any security to keep rogue scanners from accessing them.

You're mixing different things together. EMV cards are not the same as RFID tags / credit cards.

Second, readers also have little or no security to keep scan access from compromise. A simple private / public key scanning protocol could solve a lot of this. As far as digital wallets goes, a simple press of a home button on a mobile device to activate the digital wallet keeps rogue scanners from accessing them.

Those things are part of EMV.

When you digital wallet is drained by a rogue scanner after walking through a busy shopping mall, you'd be surprised how quickly you give it up.

Again, you're confusing EMV with old style RFID cards, such as PayPass, which gave up the same CC number info that's on the magnetic stripe when queried, and were easily readable from a distance.

EMV cards are not like that. You cannot scan EMV cards remotely and get info that allows you to make a usable copy.

 

[Sheza]

So what's your exact job description at Apple?

Not an Apple employee, just know things about NFC chip sales.

If you look at my post history, no way you can conclude I work as a 'misdirection' person lol.

 

[benji888]

Yesssss.

I would love to be able to buy a drink of powerade or something from a restaurant while running. Swing in, pay $1, get refreshment, continue running.

The thing is, if the business has an iBeacon, you could do that with your iPhone 4s (w/iOS 7) or newer. The tech just hasn't been utilized yet.

 

[Azzin]

Not an Apple employee, have a source close to NFC manufacturer.

Which one?

[Edit] - I presume you mean you have a source close to an NFC chip manufacturer?

 

[zipa]

Said it before and I'll say it again for the 5th or so time: iPhone 6 will have NFC.

There is no iPhone 6.



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One thing to remember is retailers often adopt technologies BECAUSE of apple and not in spite of apple.

Such as?

 

[Sheza]

Which one?

[Edit] - I presume you mean you have a source close to an NFC chip manufacturer?

If I told you that, I would get in trouble of course

 

[benji888]

NFC Is the payment standard for the foreseeable future.

I don't even see this as an option 99.9% of places I shop.

iBeacons, included with iOS 7 and using Bluetooth LE (iPhone 4s & newer), can do the same thing NFC does (and much, much more), but, without needing the chip. All it takes is businesses using the tech, which includes a bluetooth LE beacon, and payment will be implemented via our iTunes account (Apple is already in talks with retailers). I think we will see this partially implemented this holiday season, and more next year.

Once iBeacons is fully utilized, NFC will fade away.

https://www.macrumors.com/2014/05/29/apple-mobile-payments-service/
https://www.macrumors.com/2014/06/01/new-plans-ibeacon-wwdc-2014/
https://www.macrumors.com/2014/07/10/mlb-ibeacons-second-phase/
https://www.macrumors.com/2014/07/13/fcc-apples-ibeacon-hardware/

 

[zipa]

Why Bluetooth or wifi cannot be used for payment? They are wireless communications.

Insecure and they are a hassle to set up.

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Apple's "retina" branding means the pixels are so small, the human eye cannot see them.

Apple's branding is just that: branding. Studies in the subject tell us that over normal viewing distances most people can spot the difference between 500 and 1000 dpi, and that basically everyone can see the difference between 300 and 500 dpi.

Also, VR applications (such as Oculus Rift, Google Cardboard etc) basically require 2560 x 1440 in order to look good, but that is obviously a rather specialist use case to begin with.

 

[the8thark]

Team Lead - Misdirection Group - Double Down on Secrecy Division

Very funny

Not an Apple employee, just know things about NFC chip sales.

If you look at my post history, no way you can conclude I work as a 'misdirection' person lol.

I was partially joking, because as we both know only Apple can confirm about Apple things. But I would say that what you said is highly plausible based on the knowledge you do have.

 

[kdarling]

Once iBeacons is fully utilized, NFC will fade away.

As others have pointed out, iOS is used by only a fraction of the world's mobile device users.

So, no, NFC isn't going to fade away because of iBeacon, no matter how much the latter gets used in some places.

 

[Trapezoid]

As others have pointed out, iOS is used by only a fraction of the world's mobile device users.

So, no, NFC isn't going to fade away because of iBeacon, no matter how much the latter gets used in some places.

Itll be like data usage I think. NFC isnt going to disappear obviously but ibeacon will be the more popular and more used method.

Similar to how ios has only 12% marketshare but it's users use way more data than android.

 

[Ballis]

Which is why it's in almost every electronic device now to easily pair. Which is why Visa/MC is implementing it within all pos systems. Right. Useless.

A lot of ambition for sure. But I haven't actually seen it used anywhere in Europe. Or the United States. So Id say its pretty much useless.

 

[Sincci]

Do people really want to pay everything via iTunes and give Apple 30% cut too? Because that's what most likely would happen if everything would work via iBeacons.

 

[Menel]

Do people really want to pay everything via iTunes and give Apple 30% cut too? Because that's what most likely would happen if everything would work via iBeacons.

If you pay via iTunes, maybe.

But has nothing to do with paying via iBeacon.

 

[psycosis]

The thing is, if the business has an iBeacon, you could do that with your iPhone 4s (w/iOS 7) or newer. The tech just hasn't been utilized yet.

The problem is that the iBeacon payment infrastructure does not exist. It will require a huge change to implement. Stores already have to change for EMV coming in Oct 2015. NFC compatibility comes with that for free.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Actually the US EMV route is Chip & Signature, not Chip & PIN. I read that US financial institutions were worried popping 2 new things on people at once - inserting the card instead of swiping and having to enter a PIN. It's still more secure than the mag stripe, but it has already caused headaches for people traveling to Europe with a US card with a chip thinking they would be fine. Many of the automated machines for train tickets, tolls, unattained gas/petrol stations, etc. are only designed for Chip & PIN.

One issue for NFC in the US is that it is limited to purchases of $25 or less. (In Australia, it's $100.) I think the fear there is if someone steals your card, they can do a lot more damage at $100 a pop, vs. $25. However, $25 might limit the places legitimate users would be able to use it frequently.

Chip and sig is hardly more secure than mag stripe and sig. It still relies on the signature being checked against the card. I can tell you when I was a shop assistant, I was probably the only person who checked it and the cards properly. I actually think the US financial institutions are insulting their customers. In Europe the move to Chip and PIN was almost seamless. I'm sure that you guys could manage it.

I like that NFC is limited to small purchases, it's a dangerous technology with no validation technique currently, and is also vulnerable to interception. When it's your bank card or something tied to it, that's scary.

 

[Trapezoid]

Such as?

There were mp3 players before the ipod, retailers started making accessories, docks etc after apple introduced theirs.

There were app stores before the iPhone. Companies started making apps for their businesses after apple introduced theirs.

There were tablets before the ipad. Retailers started incorporating ipads into things like inventory, pilots started using them, as do coaches after apple introduced them.

 

[linuxcooldude]

The problem is that the iBeacon payment infrastructure does not exist. It will require a huge change to implement. Stores already have to change for EMV coming in Oct 2015. NFC compatibility comes with that for free.

All that is needed is an iBeacon and the associated iOS application. For chain stores it will be relatively easy, independent store maybe not as much. But even Paypal is partnering with iBeacon so it will still be somewhat easier for those stores.

 

[dazz87]

Oh good, another feature that will be useless to me.

I hope you can turn it off.

Of course its useless when you have an iphone. Dont knock it till you try it out.

 

[zipa]

There were mp3 players before the ipod, retailers started making accessories, docks etc after apple introduced theirs.

There were app stores before the iPhone. Companies started making apps for their businesses after apple introduced theirs.

There were tablets before the ipad. Retailers started incorporating ipads into things like inventory, pilots started using them, as do coaches after apple introduced them.

That is not "adopting technologies", but run-of-the-mill product manufacturing.

 

[Trapezoid]

That is not "adopting technologies", but run-of-the-mill product manufacturing.

Call it whatever you want. The point is companies started manufacturing (adopting) these things after apple did it.

We can keep nitpicking and pretend that companies don't do different things after apple does things, though.

 

[kdarling]

Itll be like data usage I think. NFC isnt going to disappear obviously but ibeacon will be the more popular and more used method.

There's a big difference between something that required merchants to do nothing ( people surfing the web in general) and having to set up an infrastructure just for iOS users.

Similar to how ios has only 12% marketshare but it's users use way more data than android.

Android was always on par with phone usage. The big difference was with tablets. In any case, Android passed iOS recently.

There were app stores before the iPhone. Companies started making apps for their businesses after apple introduced theirs.

Corporations have been making their own apps for a very long time.

There were tablets before the ipad. Retailers started incorporating ipads into things like inventory, pilots started using them, as do coaches after apple introduced them.

Pro coaches have used tablets for a long time, inventory devices have been around forever, and pilots have been using tablets since the 1990s.

In fact, it was all those Linux and PC tablets that blazed the way to FAA rules that allowed them in the first place.

But yep, the number of users have greatly increased now that the price is much lower.

 

[SirLance99]

A lot of ambition for sure. But I haven't actually seen it used anywhere in Europe. Or the United States. So Id say its pretty much useless.

That's funny. So I wake up this morning. Tap my phone on my NFC next to my bed. Music I've pre-selected starts playing over my Bluetooth KH speaker. Do my morning routine. Get in my car. Tap my phone on my NFC, Bluetooth switches over to my car and starts playing music while switching on my Waze app and others I've set up. Go to the gas station to get some gas. Tap my phone on the paypass sign with my phone to pay for the gas. Go to Wal-Greens and buy some things I need and pay with the NFC built into the POS. Go to Meijer to buy groceries. Pay for all of it with NFC by tapping my phone on the POS self-checkout. Go to a friends house, he want's to listen to some new music I was telling him about. Tap my phone on his NFC speaker to pair my device and start playing music.

So, yeah. It's pretty useful. Just because you don't see anyone using it doesn't mean it's not being used.

Australia making Waves in the World of Contactless Payments - http://letstalkpayments.com/australia-making-waves-world-contactless-payments/ According to a recent report by Australian bank Westpac, contactless payments via mobile will reach A$3 billion in Australia by 2015. In Australia, mobile-based contactless payments have accounted for 60% of all debit-card transactions in the past 12 months. The growth can be attributed to the proliferation of smartphones that come with features, such as NFC, that make it possible to perform contactless payments.

How this technology made banks super excited about contactless payments http://letstalkpayments.com/technology-made-banks-super-excited-contactless-payments/

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The thing is, if the business has an iBeacon, you could do that with your iPhone 4s (w/iOS 7) or newer. The tech just hasn't been utilized yet.

There is no way all businesses will get ibeacons that just work with iPhones and not other devices. The cost is too great.

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Itll be like data usage I think. NFC isnt going to disappear obviously but ibeacon will be the more popular and more used method.

Similar to how ios has only 12% marketshare but it's users use way more data than android.

No, just no. It's completely different when it comes to this. There is no cost in looking at Web pages. There's a ton of cost in implementing what you're talking about. NFC is being installed in all the new POS. Not ibeacons