Skip APFS without using Terminal when installing High Sierra?

[subaiku]

Hi guys, as per title. Am asking because coincidentally my "U" key is spoilt and I can't input the terminal command to skip APFS. So am stuck at the installation page.

Was wondering if there was some way to do it without Terminal? 😅

 

[chown33]

Maybe try the on-screen keyboard:

Use the Accessibility Keyboard on Mac

On your Mac, use the onscreen Accessibility Keyboard instead of a physical keyboard for advanced navigation and typing, even in different languages.

support.apple.com

 

[subaiku]

Maybe try the on-screen keyboard:

Use the Accessibility Keyboard on Mac

On your Mac, use the onscreen Accessibility Keyboard instead of a physical keyboard for advanced navigation and typing, even in different languages.

support.apple.com

Hey, thanks for the tip.. however, since it’s the installation screen, this option isn’t available to me.

 

[winxmac]

Mojave and newer enforce the use of APFS... You can still use HFS+ or macOS extended, journaled with High Sierra...

 

[subaiku]

Mojave and newer enforce the use of APFS... You can still use HFS+ or macOS extended, journaled with High Sierra...

Thanks, I know it’s possible to still format in extended. But problem is I’m at the instalation page and I can’t use terminal to skip APFS. Sorry, might not have phrased my original question correctly, I’ve edited it.

 

[anshuvorty]

Use a USB Keyboard?

 

[chown33]

If you can copy and paste in a Terminal window, then try this:
1. Enter a command that outputs a 'u' or 'U' character.
2. Select the character in the output text.
3. Copy the character to the clipboard (⌘C).
4. Paste it in at the appropriate point in typing.

A cmd that will output both upper and lower case 'U' without needing either key as input should be:

ls -?

This runs the 'ls' command with an unknown (illegal) option. In response, 'ls' outputs a summary of the options it accepts, which includes both 'U' and 'u' (AFAICT).

If that still won't work, then please post the cmds you're trying to run.

 

[Fishrrman]

OP:

What year is the Mac you want to install HS on?

I'm not sure if it's possible to coax HS to install on HFS+. Seems to me that the installer will "convert" an HFS+ drive to APFS as a part of the install process.

But there's a way around this if you don't want to use terminal, or can't get it to work.

It involves a little work, but again, it WILL work if nothing else does.

Here we go:
1. Install HS onto an EXTERNAL drive (can be HDD or SSD). If the installer converts it to APFS, don't worry about it. It's not going to matter.
2. Download an older version of CarbonCopyCloner from here:

Download Carbon Copy Cloner | Carbon Copy Cloner | Bombich Software

bombich.com

I believe the version you want is CCC 5.

CCC is FREE TO USE for this purpose, for 30 days.

3. Next, you want to BACK UP the "target Mac". It's going to be erased.

4. Use the HS external drive you just created to boot the Mac.

5. Open disk utility.
Go to the "view" menu (if there is one) and choose "show all devices".
(VERY IMPORTANT that you do the step above. But if there isn't a view menu, skip to next)
Select the internal drive from "the list on the left" and erase it to "Mac OS extended, journaling enabled, GUID partition format".
Quit disk utility.

6. Now open CarbonCopyCloner and do a "backup" of the external drive to the internal drive.
What you're doing is "cloning" the new OS install over, but doing so SHOULD NOT change the disk format on the target drive (the internal drive).

When done, you will have a fresh copy of High Sierra on the internal drive which is still formatted to HFS+.

YES -- this is MORE WORK.
But again, it WILL WORK if nothing else does.

Good luck.

 

[winxmac]

Thanks, I know it’s possible to still format in extended. But problem is I’m at the instalation page and I can’t use terminal to skip APFS. Sorry, might not have phrased my original question correctly, I’ve edited it.

I should have been more specific...

I have formatted the boot drive using HFS+/macOS extended, journaled then installed High Sierra but it did not get converted to APFS... The only time it happened was when I was trying to install Mojave and newer...

Now, I may be mistaken or remembered it incorrectly... Since you are at the installation process, why don't you try it for yourself to confirm what actually happens... Are you worried about it being a waste of time and effort? If you think that way, I think you just waiting for answers without attempting it yourself is also a waste of time and effort...

Is it because of the bandwidth/data cap and you are not using a flash drive for installation? I just really want to know your actual reason that you are not trying it out for yourself since you are at the installation process...

If you are just upgrading to High Sierra with files already on the drive, I would somehow understand your hesitation to proceed, however, you should have also created a backup just in case something goes wrong... But if it is a clean install, I don't see any reason for you not to go ahead and use the command on the next attempt if I am indeed wrong...

 

[MacsolverUK]

If you install HS to a spinning HDD it will be HFS+ by default which you can then clone to a SSD formatted the same. Terminal not needed. Easy on a Mac Pro but will need a bootable USB case for a Macbook or Mini, or do the clone operation on a Mac Pro either switching disks or via Target mode.

 

[subaiku]

OP:

What year is the Mac you want to install HS on?

I'm not sure if it's possible to coax HS to install on HFS+. Seems to me that the installer will "convert" an HFS+ drive to APFS as a part of the install process.

But there's a way around this if you don't want to use terminal, or can't get it to work.

It involves a little work, but again, it WILL work if nothing else does.

Here we go:
1. Install HS onto an EXTERNAL drive (can be HDD or SSD). If the installer converts it to APFS, don't worry about it. It's not going to matter.
2. Download an older version of CarbonCopyCloner from here:

Download Carbon Copy Cloner | Carbon Copy Cloner | Bombich Software

bombich.com

I believe the version you want is CCC 5.

CCC is FREE TO USE for this purpose, for 30 days.

3. Next, you want to BACK UP the "target Mac". It's going to be erased.

4. Use the HS external drive you just created to boot the Mac.

5. Open disk utility.
Go to the "view" menu (if there is one) and choose "show all devices".
(VERY IMPORTANT that you do the step above. But if there isn't a view menu, skip to next)
Select the internal drive from "the list on the left" and erase it to "Mac OS extended, journaling enabled, GUID partition format".
Quit disk utility.

6. Now open CarbonCopyCloner and do a "backup" of the external drive to the internal drive.
What you're doing is "cloning" the new OS install over, but doing so SHOULD NOT change the disk format on the target drive (the internal drive).

When done, you will have a fresh copy of High Sierra on the internal drive which is still formatted to HFS+.

YES -- this is MORE WORK.
But again, it WILL WORK if nothing else does.

Good luck.

Thanks! Will keep this one in the bag if nothing else works.. Am trying to install on an early 2011 Macbook.

 

[subaiku]

I should have been more specific...

I have formatted the boot drive using HFS+/macOS extended, journaled then installed High Sierra but it did not get converted to APFS... The only time it happened was when I was trying to install Mojave and newer...

Now, I may be mistaken or remembered it incorrectly... Since you are at the installation process, why don't you try it for yourself to confirm what actually happens... Are you worried about it being a waste of time and effort? If you think that way, I think you just waiting for answers without attempting it yourself is also a waste of time and effort...

Is it because of the bandwidth/data cap and you are not using a flash drive for installation? I just really want to know your actual reason that you are not trying it out for yourself since you are at the installation process...

If you are just upgrading to High Sierra with files already on the drive, I would somehow understand your hesitation to proceed, however, you should have also created a backup just in case something goes wrong... But if it is a clean install, I don't see any reason for you not to go ahead and use the command on the next attempt if I am indeed wrong...

As I understand it (after reading some articles) extended journaled by default will be the format if you have a spinning drive, If you have a SSD drive it will by default format APFS. Mine is a SSD drive.

As to why I don’t want to try installing it just to see if it works - It is because I have read that once APFS is installed you can never go back to extended journaled. I can’t have this since I will be using this Macbook to talk to my ‘older’ Macbooks which are extended journaled.

Hope that clarifies.

 

[winxmac]

As I understand it (after reading some articles) extended journaled by default will be the format if you have a spinning drive, If you have a SSD drive it will by default format APFS. Mine is a SSD drive.

As to why I don’t want to try installing it just to see if it works - It is because I have read that once APFS is installed you can never go back to extended journaled. I can’t have this since I will be using this Macbook to talk to my ‘older’ Macbooks which are extended journaled.

Hope that clarifies.

You will need to boot using a flash drive or internet recovery to use Disk Utility to go back to using HFS+/macOS extended, journaled...

I have a newer model, MacBook Pro 2015 and is using the default storage, Apple SSD... I tried installing High Sierra 10.13.6 before but pre-formatting to HFS+ and it did not force a conversion to APFS... It only got converted during install when using Mojave and newer...

I am currently running Catalina 10.15.7 and will keep it that way for the foreseeable future...

It would still depend on you on how you go about it... That is just from what I recall I experienced at macOS install...

 

[DeltaMac]

Yes, but you CAN go back to HFS+ on a drive that has been changed to APFS.
All you need to do is erase the drive, choosing Mac OS Extended for the format.
That choice will appear to be unavailable, particularly if you try to erase the APFS volume.
You have to choose the drive where that volume is. That may not show up until you change the View menu to "Show all devices" Only then will you see the drive (the line with the manufacturer's info). That's what you want to erase, and the drive will show that in the choices when you erase.
"Older" MacBooks would depend on what system those older Macs are using. Sierra, for example can read APFS drives (usually), or, at least, knows the drive is there. Anything older (El Capitan and older) can't see APFS drives at all.
Also, your MacBook, booted to APFS, can see older drives and files, no problem.

 

[Fishrrman]

OP wrote:
"It is because I have read that once APFS is installed you can never go back to extended journaled."

That's not true.
You can erase to HFS+ and start over if you want.

My 2018 Mini -- which came from Apple formatted APFS and running Mojave -- was erased to HFS+ in its entirety.

I then created 4 partitions, formatted thusly:
- Boot (APFS)
- Main (HFS+)
- Media (HFS+)
- Music (HFS+)

All live happily on the single internal SSD.

 

[subaiku]

OP wrote:
"It is because I have read that once APFS is installed you can never go back to extended journaled."

That's not true.
You can erase to HFS+ and start over if you want.

My 2018 Mini -- which came from Apple formatted APFS and running Mojave -- was erased to HFS+ in its entirety.

I then created 4 partitions, formatted thusly:
- Boot (APFS)
- Main (HFS+)
- Media (HFS+)
- Music (HFS+)

All live happily on the single internal SSD.

Wow! Didn’t know you could have different formats within the same drive. Cool!

 

[subaiku]

Thanks for all the suggestions guys! 😊