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Bodhitree

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Apr 5, 2021
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So I was wondering, if you wanted to replace all the software that you get for free with a Mac, how much would you be spending on PC software:

Keychain — cross device password manager — Lastpass Premium, 36 dollars / year
Notes — cross device flexible note taking — Evernote Personal, 84 dollars / year
Pages, Numbers, Keynote — office suite in the cloud and local — Microsoft 365 Personal, 69 dollars / year
FaceTime — videocall meetings with up to 32 attendees several hours long — Zoom Pro, 139 dollars / year
… just to pick a few

Thats already 328 dollars a year in software, or 3280 dollars over the 10 year lifespan of a Mac. And we haven’t even touched on Garageband, iMovie, Messages etcetera. And more apps are being made, like Freeform announced at WWDC 2022.

Just think on that, it’s a very significant slice of the premium you pay for Apple devices, as long as you buy an all-Apple set of devices for your digital lifestyle. It’s true that the Apple-provided apps often don’t have all the features of their commercial counterparts, but for most people you will find what you really need is in there, which is why I feel justified making the comparison.

For me, having a beautiful set of apps to do the essential things, without overburdening me with too many features to learn, and having them integrate well with the entire ecosystem, is the logical conclusion of Apple owning the whole technology stack that makes their products. This is where you deliver value.
 

Canyda

macrumors 65816
Sep 7, 2020
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I have a lot of Apple stuff (iPhone, iPad Mini, Watch) and my response is Google Drive, Facebook Messenger Video, Google/Edge password manager, and Google Keep or OneNote downloadable app

I totally get what you are saying but there are a lot of free options available for those things you identify. (Yeah, yeah, privacy issues and such.)
 
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Bodhitree

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Sure you can get free alternatives for some, or maybe even all, of these sets of functionality, but I think you’ll find they do even less than Apple’s apps and way less than the commercial alternatives, or they have in-app purchases such as OneNote.

Apple’s apps are all cleanly executed and integrate well visually and technically, and I think they deliver a lot of value.
 

solarmon

macrumors 6502
Mar 12, 2015
255
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I have a lot of Apple stuff (iPhone, iPad Mini, Watch) and my response is Google Drive, Facebook Messenger Video, Google/Edge password manager, and Google Keep or OneNote downloadable app

I totally get what you are saying but there are a lot of free options available for those things you identify. (Yeah, yeah, privacy issues and such.)
You use Facebook? And google? Hmmmm….
 

jz0309

Contributor
Sep 25, 2018
10,166
26,603
SoCal
So I was wondering, if you wanted to replace all the software that you get for free with a Mac, how much would you be spending on PC software:

Keychain — cross device password manager — Lastpass Premium, 36 dollars / year
Notes — cross device flexible note taking — Evernote Personal, 84 dollars / year
Pages, Numbers, Keynote — office suite in the cloud and local — Microsoft 365 Personal, 69 dollars / year
FaceTime — videocall meetings with up to 32 attendees several hours long — Zoom Pro, 139 dollars / year
… just to pick a few

Thats already 328 dollars a year in software, or 3280 dollars over the 10 year lifespan of a Mac. And we haven’t even touched on Garageband, iMovie, Messages etcetera. And more apps are being made, like Freeform announced at WWDC 2022.

Just think on that, it’s a very significant slice of the premium you pay for Apple devices, as long as you buy an all-Apple set of devices for your digital lifestyle. It’s true that the Apple-provided apps often don’t have all the features of their commercial counterparts, but for most people you will find what you really need is in there, which is why I feel justified making the comparison.

For me, having a beautiful set of apps to do the essential things, without overburdening me with too many features to learn, and having them integrate well with the entire ecosystem, is the logical conclusion of Apple owning the whole technology stack that makes their products. This is where you deliver value.
So if I take your suggested $ values for real - what would happen if every Mac were $300 cheaper, and how many people would download and pay for the apps you’re suggesting?
 

Jessica Lares

macrumors G3
Oct 31, 2009
9,612
1,056
Near Dallas, Texas, USA
My parents use Dropbox, WhatsApp, and Zoom because the other people in their circle use it, my brother used Google Docs in school. I know people who still use Evernote for the same reason.

Apple's apps are great, but not everyone is using their products, and so groups/organizations have to pick their tools based on that fact.

People aren't as tech illiterate as they were 10 years ago either.
 
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Killbynumbers

macrumors 6502a
May 29, 2019
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Other than a browser, twitter client and an app to sync iTunes music to my phone/iPad, that's about it. There's a few other minor things I do that I can't do on an iPad so a computer is something I always need.

Of course I could do all of this on a Windows computer instead of a 2021 16" MBP but I prefer not to.
 

Bodhitree

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Apr 5, 2021
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Just coming back to this, you could add to the list…

Freeform — cloud whiteboarding — Figma Professional at 144 dollars / year

Taking the total software provided free with a Mac to 472 dollars worth a year, with yearly updates and maintenance over a more realistic 7 year lifespan to 3304 or so dollars worth of value.

Admittedly it means that when you buy a Mac theres quite a lot to learn if you’re coming from Chromebooks, but your Mac comes with a lot of capabilities in terms of the software thats ready to roll. I think for a lot of people it’s a significant benefit, although you may not use all of those capabilities.
 

MacGizmo

macrumors 68040
Apr 27, 2003
3,083
2,402
Arizona
Value is in the eyes of the beholder. I personally value the integration and easy maintenance/updates of Apple's built-in apps.

I used to seek out what I perceived as better apps, but over the years I found that most had shortcomings that made them difficult to use for one reason or another. And I really didn't care for all the "proprietary" formats that made it difficult or impossible to work with each other.

Over the last few years, I've accepted the few shortcomings in Apple's apps. I find them to be a fair trade for those troubles that came with 3rd party apps – not to mention always wondering when those app developers would start charging for the apps, charge more than I could justify, or flat-out stop development and support.

The only 3rd party apps I use over Apple's are ones from Microsoft and Adobe because I know they aren't going anywhere – and I make a handsome living using them, so I don't mind paying the subscription prices.

Dropbox is a great example. It's cheaper, faster, more reliable, and more widely used than Apple's iCloud+ service, but I refuse to pay for it because I'm not convinced they won't continue to place limitations on its use (device limits, etc.), raise prices, or get sold to another larger company that folds it into some other product/service.
 

Bodhitree

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Apr 5, 2021
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Value is in the eyes of the beholder. I personally value the integration and easy maintenance/updates of Apple's built-in apps.

I used to seek out what I perceived as better apps, but over the years I found that most had shortcomings that made them difficult to use for one reason or another. And I really didn't care for all the "proprietary" formats that made it difficult or impossible to work with each other.

Over the last few years, I've accepted the few shortcomings in Apple's apps. I find them to be a fair trade for those troubles that came with 3rd party apps – not to mention always wondering when those app developers would start charging for the apps, charge more than I could justify, or flat-out stop development and support.

That is a fair summary. If you don’t like the shortcomings you can find a third-party alternative, but usually you don‘t have to and the Apple-supplied utilities are perfectly good enough. For example you can use Facetime to run a 20-man videoconferenced get together by people on various platforms, in some ways it is better than Zoom like the 40-minute call-length.

I used to use Windows and doing something new was always a kerfuffle, you’d have to find software, make sure it was free, check it supported what other people used, install it, figure out how it worked, and so on. Apple’s applications come pre-installed, free, and are easy to use.

The only 3rd party apps I use over Apple's are ones from Microsoft and Adobe because I know they aren't going anywhere – and I make a handsome living using them, so I don't mind paying the subscription prices.

No argument from me. Pages, Keynote and Numbers are not bad applications and I’m quite fond of them, you can do a lot with them, but Microsoft Office is a step better in serious productivity. And Apple doesn’t compete with Adobe.
 

theluggage

macrumors 604
Jul 29, 2011
7,519
7,430
Keychain — cross device password manager — Lastpass Premium, 36 dollars / year
Notes — cross device flexible note taking — Evernote Personal, 84 dollars / year
Pages, Numbers, Keynote — office suite in the cloud and local — Microsoft 365 Personal, 69 dollars / year
FaceTime — videocall meetings with up to 32 attendees several hours long — Zoom Pro, 139 dollars / year
… just to pick a few

Don't entirely disagree, but just to give a counter-point:

...I use some non-Apple devices, so I pay for a third party password manager anyway.
...I have to interact with MS Office users, so I need an Office 365 subscription.
...I have to interact with people who know & use Zoom (haven't needed the paid subscription yet, but if I did it would have to be Zoom)

Virtually everything I use is cross-platform - I just prefer Mac to Windows and - when I do any coding or web development - prefer having Unix under the hood.

Garageband (free) and its easy upgrade path to Logic Pro X (~$200) are incredible value (yes, there are free/cheap DAWs but not with the shedload of instruments and effects you get with GB and Logic, plus $200 gets you the full version of Logic - that sort of cash will only get you a cut-down version of Ableton etc.) ...if you need/use them.

Incidentally - You make quite a good case, maybe someone should tell Apple's marketing people? Seriously: try and find GarageBand, Logic Pro. FCPX, Pages, Numbers, Keynote... on the Apple website without explicitly searching for them. If you didn't already know about them you'd never find them. What the heck, Apple?
 
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Bodhitree

macrumors 68000
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Incidentally - You make quite a good case, maybe someone should tell Apple's marketing people? Seriously: try and find GarageBand, Logic Pro. FCPX, Pages, Numbers, Keynote... on the Apple website without explicitly searching for them. If you didn't already know about them you'd never find them. What the heck, Apple?

Well quite. There’s a lot you can do with a Mac immediately, from a factory install, that on a Windows PC you’d need additional software and know-how for. All that comes as part of the price of the hardware.
 

HobeSoundDarryl

macrumors G5
Oh brother! The lengths we will go trying to rationalize the Apple premium never ceases to amaze.

I'm an Apple everything guy myself. However, to embrace Silicon while still needing some (full) Windows PC functionality for select clients, one pretty much must go "old fashioned" bootcamp by purchasing a PC too. So I did that, purchasing my first pure PC in well over a decade. Now I have Mac Studio + PC + Dell Ultrawide into which both plug on my desk, replacing an iMac 27" which used to be all of that in ONE package.

As OP implies, I imagined I was going to need to buy a bunch of software to be able to make full use of the PC when, in fact, so far I've purchased NOTHING for it. Why? Because it comes with a good mix of stock apps to scratch many basic needs. Those are all free.

Furthermore, Windows being far more popular (in sheer volume) than Mac means that there is far more freeware and shareware than available for Mac. So if one wanted, one could take advantage of a seemingly endless volume of apps for free/cheap to cover most software bases. For example, can free Google Office stand in for Microsoft Office? Etc. Yes, risk of viruses is higher with some "free" software but choosing wisely and applying virus protections built into Windows (for free) can likely result in getting what one needs done without having to spend much at all.

If the PC owner is going to use the PC for work too, they can probably take it into work and ask their IT team to install key apps on it. Since Windows generally sells bulk licenses for businesses, this probably results in getting apps like Office installed for free (paid for by the employer). Once a license is used, it likely isn't revoked when- say- the employee leaves the job. And this is a very common way for various paid business apps to end up on home PCs at the cost of as little as $0 to the PC owner. How does this approach work with Apple? It generally doesn't. You want Apple paid apps on your Mac? You buy them as an individual (not bulk) and/or hope your employer will give you a budget or reimbursement to buy them.

However, let's just assume as OP does that Microsoft Office is essential (even if Pages/Keynote/Numbers is not actually essential on Macs) and their employer won't give them a free license. Rather than sign up for 365 subscription, there is a steady parade of promotions offering the non-subscription version of Office, typically for less than $50. Pay once, use it for years.

Unlike Apple, Microsoft seems to keep older versions able to open newer version's files, so that $50 or less Office 2021 will probably be fully usable until 2028-2030 or longer... as will that new PC just purchased being very likely to still be usable and up-to-date long after an equivalent Mac purchased today has been left behind by macOS upgrades (that "require" new hardware) if not outright fast "vintaging" presumably to drive upgrades too. In my own experience over the years, Office is usually good for about 10+ years before needing a new version... unlike say- Pages- which might be good for about 3 years before the file format is tweaked, thus forcing a macOS upgrade if you need to open a Pages file created on the newer macOS Pages version.

Consider that buying a good PC is possible minus the big fat Apple premium and that sizable savings can create quite a budget to spend some money on PC apps if one needs some that are only available for a price, it should be easy to get a "loaded" PC able to do most of what we Mac people enjoy for LESS to much less than a Mac. Bonus: the pool of software is much greater than our Mac pool. If one wants great games, the pool of great games is much greater too. Etc.

While I'm not much of a gamer, I have a favorite made way back in the early 2000s. I could still play the Mac version if I hooked up an OLD Mac able to run original Rosetta on a Snow Leopard macOS. The brand new 2023 PC can run the Windows version of that game on Windows 11 (about 20 years after it was created). Try THAT trick with about anything from even the latter 2000s or early 201X in macOS. Apple tends to deprecate compatibility with perfectly good apps often: see all those great iOS 32bit apps basically dumped at one time. It's only a matter of time before Apple drops Rosetta 2 and orphans many apps that may never "go silicon." This generally does NOT happen on PCs. It doesn't take much effort looking around here and there to find ancient DOS apps running just fine on modern PC hardware.

Apple is great. I use and depend on Apple stuff every day. But Apple Inc. doesn't need us to help them convince other people to buy Macs- they are doing just fine on their own. If we want to feel good about it ourselves, we can entirely focus our value perception of macOS vs. Windows: "I like macOS so much better that it is worth it" and that should be enough ALONE to rationalize pricing. This kind of thing feels like quite the reach, somewhat blowing relative costs out of proportion by selectively choosing more expensive options vs. how a PC owner may actually approach accomplishing the same objectives.

Macs win in my book because I generally favor macOS and hardware quality. I pay the fat premium for those benefits. But I'm quite happy with the new PC (too). Instead of "cheapest," I chose to spend Mac Mini-like money and that buys a LOT of PC power, including a great graphics card. Windows 11 is impressive and even feels macOS-like in some ways. In other words, the differences are not as pronounced as "we" may remember if our last real exposure to Windows was even 10 years ago. Windows 11 is no Vista or XP.

If one already knows macOS, that can be another reason to rationalize sticking with it and paying fat premiums for Apple products. However, far more people in the world already know Windows and the same applies. Where OP and "we" can see Apple everything being terrific because we have already invested the time to learn the Apple way to do things, the same works the other way. To the person buying their first computer today- with no "how to use" investment in either- whichever one they choose to buy will come with a learning curve. I don't perceive one is significantly easier to use than the other- just DIFFERENT. Once one learns the basics of one, that one will likely seem to be the "easier to use" platform to them... and switching to the other will seem like a big hurdle to have to leap. When it is Windows user considering jumping to Apple, that alt OS learning requirement is also paired with having to pay up much more for seemingly similar hardware vs. just buying another PC and sticking with what they already know.
 
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Thirio2

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Jun 27, 2019
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If Apple free software does everything you need, fine, but some people need the extra features MS Office provides. In that case the “free“ software Apple provides is needless extra expense.
 
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