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Other The last LCD iPhones
- Thread starter Sami13496
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Those with PWM sensitivity on phones, how was it with old CRT TVs / Monitors? (You know, those that flickered 50/60Hz), or it is only with higher frequency PWM/Flicker
Anyway there are manufacturers using very high frequency PWM (+1000Hz) or even DC dimming (though that reduces quality) so maybe Apple will sooner or later adopt those, and Apple has increased PWM frequency, from 12 to 13...
Also some cheaper phones also use lower frequency PWM on LCD backlight...
Anyway there are manufacturers using very high frequency PWM (+1000Hz) or even DC dimming (though that reduces quality) so maybe Apple will sooner or later adopt those, and Apple has increased PWM frequency, from 12 to 13...
Also some cheaper phones also use lower frequency PWM on LCD backlight...
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Yeah @JPack commented about that, but as I said, iPhone 14 LCD screens didn’t allow the brightness sensor to work properly. If they finally solve this problem, I’ll likely go this route in the future.
However, it’s a pity to do this on a flagship iPhone such as the 16 or 17 so let’s hope they start using OLED screens with higher frequencies or even DC dimming, along with new QD OLED panels that don’t have flickering.
"Eye Health" TF. PWM sensitivity is a discomfort your eyes won't ever get damaged by it. Two different things.
Can you point me to the medical literature about this
I’m having trouble finding anything
All features work now. True Tone works and they can even remove the Unknown Part message when using an aftermarket display.
Thank you, those are great news then!
EDIT: oh but you need specialized tools to do this… I want to be able to change the screen in my home. We’ll see how this evolve. I’m not particularly worried of not having True Tone, but the brightness sensor is crucial.
Yes, due to Apple's position on repairs, this is something that needs to be done by a local repair shop or at least mailing in your existing display.
Of course.
Stop trying to feel special, there is no such thing.
Otherwise convince me and cite some scientific references.
I've encountered years of negative and dismissive remarks like this, as have countless others who've faced similar issues. May I ask who you are to make such a statement?Of course.
Stop trying to feel special, there is no such thing.
Otherwise convince me and cite some scientific references.
I don't need to persuade you. If you're not experiencing eye strain and headaches triggered by using OLED phones/screens, then you're not directly impacted, and this thread holds no significance for you. Do your own homework, this isn't X. Or place your comment in this thread.
Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up
They're not low quality. I dropped a LCD on a XS Max a year or so ago for a client who accidentally ran over their phone with a car. They weren't interested in using the phone again, had already bought a new phone, but needed a functional screen to get some data off the phone. The LCD was about $100 less than the OLED. They gave me the phone when they'd finished.
I can't tell the difference between that screen (gave it to my girlfriend) and the screen on my XS Max other than the blacks being very, very slightly blacker, it's that good. I honestly don't understand the OLED hype.
So, that's interesting, but not scientific. Is there any controlled data on this? Any actual studies that you're aware of?
I obviously don't notice a difference, but that's not evidence that some people don't have a problem. I'd just like to see something controlled, not a self-selected survey.
PWM is a standard way to dim LEDs, it's what Apple used for the LED backlight on LCD screens. I'm wondering why and how it could cause a problem for OLED screens and somehow not for LCD screens.
I’ve been searching and have not been able to find anything
My curiosity is quite frankly starting to turn to skepticism
Could you please send me in the direction of this medical literature?
Ridiculous. The rate of change on the display is so fast that it does not effect the eye like your exaggerated example!
Exactly. PWM is used in pretty much everything. Every iPhone ever made (LCD or OLED) uses PWM to regulate brightness. Pretty much every moden power supply (aka switch mode power supplies) uses PWM. The only potential differences between applications are switching frequency and filtering (using capacitors or inductors to smoothen out the pulses).
People need to stop making weird claims about PWM being a harmful technology that companies just use to save a dime.
Could you point me to some medical literature on the subject?
I'm curious about this and keep asking people in this thread but no one seems to be able to point to anything.
Thanks
While I am an academic researcher, I’m not a medical expert. But I did do a search in a large research database and didn’t find any studies that concluded that OLED displays caused an increase in eye strain over other technologies, at least not in controlled tests.
One thing that does show up is that so-called negative displays, where light text is shown on a dark background like in modern dark modes, does lead to an increase in eye fatigue compared to positive displays. Seeing as how OLEDs are often used in a negative mode to conserve energy, that could be one reason why some people experience more eye strain. Also, LCDs don’t produce as dark of a background anyway, so the strain from using an LCD display in dark mode should be lower too. The solution might simply be to stick to light mode whenever possible.
There’s a lot of interesting research on the ergonomics of computer displays. For instance, dark bezels around a display increase eye fatigue and reduce readability compared to monitors with lighter, e.g. beige, bezels. The fad of going to dark computer hardware that started in the early 2000s is actually bad for our eyes and ultimately productivity. I think about this whenever people complain about the Apple Silicon iMacs and their light bezels.
Isn't micro LED supposed to replace OLED for phones soon? If so, problem solved.
www.macrumors.com
Custom MicroLED Displays Could Be Heading to the iPhone, Vision Pro, and Apple Car
Early production operations for Apple's custom microLED displays indicate that the technology is headed to a broad range of products, including...
www.macrumors.com
Here are some examples of scientific articles about this topic. I'm sure there are others.
spectrum.ieee.org
There are a few publications and guidelines about reducing the health effects of flickering light sources. Google IEEE PAR1789. It seems some people are more bothered by it than others. AFAIK all of the iPhones that use/used LCDs use DC dimming. I don't think the same is true of the laptops. It varies by model.
Flicker in light sources is a well accepted trigger of certain symptoms in medical literature. The most obvious manifestation being seizures from strobe lights. In fact, if you get an EEG they will often try to induce a seizure by flashing lights to see what the EEG reading does.
My guess is sensitivity to flickering screens falls on that spectrum. Personally, many PWM driven OLED screens cause Migraine-like effects for me which start out as eye strain and then progress to a migraine and a feeling of being "spaced out" the longer I look at the screen. Its worse the closer I am to the screen, worse at low brightness levels, and better if there is more light or an off angle to diffuse the effect. My LCD iPhone I can stare at all day with no issue.
The iPhone 12 Mini Makes Me Sick (Literally)
Manufacturers don’t like to talk about OLED display flicker, but for the sensitive, it’s a nightmare
spectrum.ieee.org
There are a few publications and guidelines about reducing the health effects of flickering light sources. Google IEEE PAR1789. It seems some people are more bothered by it than others. AFAIK all of the iPhones that use/used LCDs use DC dimming. I don't think the same is true of the laptops. It varies by model.
Flicker in light sources is a well accepted trigger of certain symptoms in medical literature. The most obvious manifestation being seizures from strobe lights. In fact, if you get an EEG they will often try to induce a seizure by flashing lights to see what the EEG reading does.
My guess is sensitivity to flickering screens falls on that spectrum. Personally, many PWM driven OLED screens cause Migraine-like effects for me which start out as eye strain and then progress to a migraine and a feeling of being "spaced out" the longer I look at the screen. Its worse the closer I am to the screen, worse at low brightness levels, and better if there is more light or an off angle to diffuse the effect. My LCD iPhone I can stare at all day with no issue.
I think that DC dimming is mostly a marketing term by some brands. PWM is how “dimming” a DC circuit is often done.Here are some examples of scientific articles about this topic. I'm sure there are others.
The iPhone 12 Mini Makes Me Sick (Literally)
Manufacturers don’t like to talk about OLED display flicker, but for the sensitive, it’s a nightmare
There are a few publications and guidelines about reducing the health effects of flickering light sources. Google IEEE PAR1789. It seems some people are more bothered by it than others. AFAIK all of the iPhones that use/used LCDs use DC dimming. I don't think the same is true of the laptops. It varies by model.
Flicker in light sources is a well accepted trigger of certain symptoms in medical literature. The most obvious manifestation being seizures from strobe lights. In fact, if you get an EEG they will often try to induce a seizure by flashing lights to see what the EEG reading does.
My guess is sensitivity to flickering screens falls on that spectrum. Personally, many PWM driven OLED screens cause Migraine-like effects for me which start out as eye strain and then progress to a migraine and a feeling of being "spaced out" the longer I look at the screen. Its worse the closer I am to the screen, worse at low brightness levels, and better if there is more light or an off angle to diffuse the effect. My LCD iPhone I can stare at all day with no issue.