Exactly.
Microsoft is also putting a very premium product on the market. Definitively stands on it's own.
However, that doens't help the bullsh....
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The Surface Book has a lot of things MBP doesn't: Speed is not one of them.
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Exactly.
Microsoft is also putting a very premium product on the market. Definitively stands on it's own.
However, that doens't help the bullsh....
Your claim used to be quite true.
However that's changed presently. Apple no longer delivers the quality of hardware and software they once did.
You'll notice I'm comparing them to their high standards of the past, not some other company. But now the new rather mediocre standard is hardly any better than the competition. Yet that doesn't matter much as millions of Apple customers still cling to the myth that Apple is so far superior.
The reason I'm so certain is I spend a vast sum of money annually to enjoy the latest Apple laptops and mobile devices, as well as that of the competition. So my side by side comparisons are based on real first hand experience not guesswork influenced by personal preference.
Yet that said I'd be lying if I didn't admit I am biased towards Apple. I've used their computers over two decades as a tool I make my living with. They've been great.
Yet I'm no blind fan boy. I'm outspoken, not a Steve Jobs hero worshipper, and never hesitate to identify and talk about the times when Apple behaves badly. It's their hypocrisy that's egregious. Say one thing and do the opposite. But as you can see theirs millions that live in denial, defend Apple like their getting paid for it, and get so emotionally attached they fight in this forum
Your claim used to be quite true.
However that's changed presently. Apple no longer delivers the quality of hardware and software they once did.
You'll notice I'm comparing them to their high standards of the past, not some other company. But now the new rather mediocre standard is hardly any better than the competition. Yet that doesn't matter much as millions of Apple customers still cling to the myth that Apple is so far superior.
The reason I'm so certain is I spend a vast sum of money annually to enjoy the latest Apple laptops and mobile devices, as well as that of the competition. So my side by side comparisons are based on real first hand experience not guesswork influenced by personal preference.
Yet that said I'd be lying if I didn't admit I am biased towards Apple. I've used their computers over two decades as a tool I make my living with. They've been great.
Yet I'm no blind fan boy. I'm outspoken, not a Steve Jobs hero worshipper, and never hesitate to identify and talk about the times when Apple behaves badly. It's their hypocrisy that's egregious. Say one thing and do the opposite. But as you can see theirs millions that live in denial, defend Apple like their getting paid for it, and get so emotionally attached they fight in this forum
I think Apple has reached a point of superior hardware build and a performance aspect that is a good competitor in todays market for less $. Their R&D has paid off in a big way.
What more do you realistically expect from Apple on a revised rMBP? The first step they took that was drastic was gutting the optical drive, the next possible move is USB-C as the USB ports can not get any thinner otherwise as they are.
What are your propositions? The current form factor is one I am happy with for years to come and have been since the 17" MacBook Pros. At the end of the day, you have to consider you can only move so fast in technology and at the volume Apple supplies to make the right decisions for their products.
You're doing some aggressive assuming. Talking about a topic I haven't touched on. Perhaps you only read a few words of my post.
Here's an example of what could be improved. In 2013 my $3,000 Plus CTO MBP was delivered with four dents in the case. Fortunately I was wise enough when placing the order to specify in store pickup.
Upon arrival Apple notified me and I went into the store. Instead of taking it home I was anxious to see it so I inboxed it in the store. With three Apple associates standing and watching they saw the dents in the case as I was removing the clear protective wrap. Each dent was larger than a dime in diameter and at least 4mm deep.
The impact on me was after waiting eight weeks for it to be built, Apple advised I would have to start over. That involved charging a second computer to my credit card, or waiting three weeks for the damaged purchase to be credited back. I ordered immediately.
The following year ... That new machine had defective WiFi rendering it useless while traveling which I do 24 days per month out of state. So again Apple cost me time and money.
Not to mention other incidents in the last five years. All related to poor quality OS upgrades.
Some is to be expected I'm not looking for perfection. Just ship what works.
The prior fifteen years I bought twelve new Apple laptops which performed like Apple loves to brag. "They just worked " and they did.
I think some of that can be contributed to the fact that apple is selling a lot more devices than they did 10+ years ago, it's also a case of poor quality control standards.You're doing some aggressive assuming. Talking about a topic I haven't touched on. Perhaps you only read a few words of my post.
Here's an example of what could be improved. In 2013 my $3,000 Plus CTO MBP was delivered with four dents in the case. Fortunately I was wise enough when placing the order to specify in store pickup.
Upon arrival Apple notified me and I went into the store. Instead of taking it home I was anxious to see it so I inboxed it in the store. With three Apple associates standing and watching they saw the dents in the case as I was removing the clear protective wrap. Each dent was larger than a dime in diameter and at least 4mm deep.
The impact on me was after waiting eight weeks for it to be built, Apple advised I would have to start over. That involved charging a second computer to my credit card, or waiting three weeks for the damaged purchase to be credited back. I ordered immediately.
The following year ... That new machine had defective WiFi rendering it useless while traveling which I do 24 days per month out of state. So again Apple cost me time and money.
Not to mention other incidents in the last five years. All related to poor quality OS upgrades.
Some is to be expected I'm not looking for perfection. Just ship what works.
The prior fifteen years I bought twelve new Apple laptops which performed like Apple loves to brag. "They just worked " and they did.
Your claim used to be quite true.
However that's changed presently. Apple no longer delivers the quality of hardware and software they once did.
You'll notice I'm comparing them to their high standards of the past, not some other company. But now the new rather mediocre standard is hardly any better than the competition. Yet that doesn't matter much as millions of Apple customers still cling to the myth that Apple is so far superior.
The reason I'm so certain is I spend a vast sum of money annually to enjoy the latest Apple laptops and mobile devices, as well as that of the competition. So my side by side comparisons are based on real first hand experience not guesswork influenced by personal preference.
Yet that said I'd be lying if I didn't admit I am biased towards Apple. I've used their computers over two decades as a tool I make my living with. They've been great.
Yet I'm no blind fan boy. I'm outspoken, not a Steve Jobs hero worshipper, and never hesitate to identify and talk about the times when Apple behaves badly. It's their hypocrisy that's egregious. Say one thing and do the opposite. But as you can see theirs millions that live in denial, defend Apple like their getting paid for it, and get so emotionally attached they fight in this forum
Apple current devices are what they are.
Apple's hardware and software quality are at the best, the scrutiny, that's about 3X or 4X more.
And comparatively to competitors, Mac's have never been so cheap!
You're doing some aggressive assuming. Talking about a topic I haven't touched on. Perhaps you only read a few words of my post.
Here's an example of what could be improved. In 2013 my $3,000 Plus CTO MBP was delivered with four dents in the case. Fortunately I was wise enough when placing the order to specify in store pickup.
Upon arrival Apple notified me and I went into the store. Instead of taking it home I was anxious to see it so I inboxed it in the store. With three Apple associates standing and watching they saw the dents in the case as I was removing the clear protective wrap. Each dent was larger than a dime in diameter and at least 4mm deep.
The impact on me was after waiting eight weeks for it to be built, Apple advised I would have to start over. That involved charging a second computer to my credit card, or waiting three weeks for the damaged purchase to be credited back. I ordered immediately.
The following year ... That new machine had defective WiFi rendering it useless while traveling which I do 24 days per month out of state. So again Apple cost me time and money.
Not to mention other incidents in the last five years. All related to poor quality OS upgrades.
Some is to be expected I'm not looking for perfection. Just ship what works.
The prior fifteen years I bought twelve new Apple laptops which performed like Apple loves to brag. "They just worked " and they did.
Well see, you're talking about your personal experience with an obviously defective product which was resolved. I had two repairs on the first rMBP released too, years down to road.
This doesn't paint the picture for the majority of MBP users in the wild. Apple's quality has increased substantially, their cost to the consumer has come down lower than it ever has been and they continue to sell like hot cakes for a reason.
I'm not arguing or challenging you just reporting my viewpoint. I cited but one example of a few plus we have a huge number at work, an international engineering firm that uses lots of Macs and PC's.
My point is simply the fact that quality control has been gradually declining as well as overall build quality, something Apple could easily afford to remedy. I've used Apples laptops dating back to PowerBooks in the nineties and they were much more consistently well made.
A brilliant company that has determined how much they can get away with and keep selling well. The masters at cost control and profit taking, no other company collects the fat gross profits Apple does.
I don't know, the build quality of all my Macs have been spectacular. Not sure what other problems you may have run into.
As do I, an Ultraportable with a single USB C port is one thing, however with the current limited adoption of USB C it would literally cripple the rMBP. I am also tired of Apple`s obsession with "thin & light" once again it works for Ultraportable`s, however for the Professional/Prosumer it simply depreciates usability.
Microsoft should be praised for their innovation, even if one does not care for the brand, as clearly they are onto something with Surface, and this also helps to ignite the PC space, equally Apple needs to go reinvent their "innovation" especially for the "Mac"
Q-6
Dear OP,
You are shadowboxing. Everyone who's capable of thought knows that Surface is a pretty niche product. There are some people for whom it will work OK, and everyone else can sell it or complain about it online after they waste their money. All you have to do is watch some of the serious, honest YouTube reviews of Surface to know what it is, and what it isn't.
There is no point arguing with Microsoft fanboys on forums or comment threads. There is no way to fix the fact that Apple is the gold standard against which every laptop or tablet will be compared, even when the comparison is weak at best.
Apple just needs to worry about making a laptop where the CPU and GPU never throttle even under heavy load, and put out a gaming tower.
You are shadowboxing. Everyone who's capable of thought knows that Surface is a pretty niche product. There are some people for whom it will work OK, and everyone else can sell it or complain about it online after they waste their money. All you have to do is watch some of the serious, honest YouTube reviews of Surface to know what it is, and what it isn't.
There is no point arguing with Microsoft fanboys on forums or comment threads. There is no way to fix the fact that Apple is the gold standard against which every laptop or tablet will be compared, even when the comparison is weak at best.
Apple just needs to worry about making a laptop where the CPU and GPU never throttle even under heavy load, and put out a gaming tower.
You are all forgetting the obvious fact that Surface runs a vastly inferior operating system, has much crappier trackpad drivers (slapping some glass on top does NOT make it a Mac trackpad...!), does not have a unibody design, has much crappier construction being basically glued together, will inevitably suffer from heat issues like the prior Surfaces did, and is nowhere near the quality of a MacBook Pro. It's a sad joke honestly that this thread even exists.
So what if they put the latest Intel chip inside and it posts good benchmarks? People actually have to use and own them, and Apple sets itself apart on user experience and owner satisfaction, not benchmarks. Anyone who doesn't already know that, and who can't see why a MacBook Pro running OS X is so vastly superior, frankly deserves to own a Surface. There's really no accounting for taste; some people will eat at McDonald's even if a much better restaurant is across the street for the same price.
I understand your proclivity towards apple products and even hatred towards Microsoft but Windows 10 is solid, stable and fast. I'd not say its vastly inferior. Just compare how buggy, and slow Yosemite was and its a night and day difference. Now that we have El Cap things are better but that doesn't take away how great windows 10 is. Both Windows and OS X have a lot of positives and some negatives.
As for the trackpads, the SB is a big improvement but still inferior to what we have on the MBP. As for construction, It has the feel of a solid machine and based on what they showed in the media event, it appears to be a unibody design.
Its not a sad joke about this thread because the SB is a solid computer, instead of ignoring anything that does not have a fruit logo, look at what it is with a discerning eye.
I checked out the SurfaceBook and I'm impressed with the machine. Its not perfect, I may not want to take a chance on getting a gen 1 product, but then I try to avoid that with apple too (read this as Apple rolls out some products that have issues).
Plus I need to determine if this is the best use of 2,000 dollars.
I don't doubt yours have been fine. It's a reflection of Apples inconsistent quality over the last five years. I have seen plenty of other customers with similar issues as we all stand in line at the Genius Bar. Even with appointments the four stores in my area have two week waits for a reservation.
What I've done to compensate for the risk is instead of waiting till I need what I'm ordering then get caught out waiting even longer due to the roughly twelve week turnaround, of customized to order (CTO) MBP models, I simply order in advance then I can easily afford to wait through two or three return cycles. There's always a solution for the manufacturers failures.
That said I'm sure Apple will improve at some point in the future, they usually do. Especially once sales begin to slow which is another normal occurrence. Nothing stays hot and in high demand forever.
I replaced my 2012 with the mid 2015 rMBP. Surface is more expensive than the top rMBP.
I've had the same experience. With the exception of my current laptop, every one that I have owned or used has had at least one issue with it. My current one is the only exception to that (mid-2012 cMBP), but it will eventually have an issue, because they all do at some point, regardless of brand. The question is "when", and if that when will be before I pass it on, or while I'm still using it.
My previous Apple laptop (early 2008 15" MBP) had battery issues that were covered under warranty.
Every ThinkPad I've used for work (half a dozen so far) have had issues, but compared to the Dell (below) they've been minor issues.
The HP I had developed micro-fractures in the display casing close to the hinges after one year (normal wear and tear, supposedly.)
The Dell laptop I had was the worst. Inspiron 8000 from 2002. Display issue right out of the box. Admittedly, the support was amazing for that issue ... DHL picked it up Friday, and delivered it back to me on Monday. (Display was replaced on the Saturday and shipped back to me that same day. That was impressive.) Then, less than a year later, the hard drive died. Support for that issue was abysmal. Sometime between the first and second issue that I had, Dell began outsourcing their support positions overseas, and it definitely had a negative effect on the support experience for me. I gave up trying to get them to replace the bad drive, and just sold the system to get rid of it (with full disclosure to the buyer.)
what is wrong with your 2012 rMBP? I can't replace mine if it is not dead or slow at all.
For me it was mostly my decision to roll with the 8GB config in the day, then the issues with the ghosting display then the logic board, figured 3 years was enough and sold it.
I haven't seen anyone argue that a surface book is comparable to a MacBook on a price vs price basis. Almost every review has noted how much more expensive the Book is vs ALL of its competition.
Comparing speed for speed in a laptop class (say, 13" notebooks) regardless of price is what all benchmarks do. How else could we figure out who has the best bang for the buck? So it is a perfectly legitimate way of benchmarking the surface vs a MBP, and the MBP comes out ahead in that regard just based on CPU performance per $$. Then you have to decide how much value the stylus and convertible format add to your particular needs, or if you want a dGPU in the 13" format that Apple doesn't offer anymore.
And we ARE getting some 13" MBP vs i5 Surface book comparisons. ARS did a bunch of them. They don't specify which MBP they are using, so the assumption is the base model (if it wasn't the base model, the MBP is NOT looking good in these tests)
So, below is some single core and battery life tests as well as some multi core stuff. I haven't seen the storage benchmarks yet, I am hoping Anand does some of those when they post their full review.
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/10/surface-book-review-the-laptop-that-replaces-your-tablet/
![Review-chart-template-final-full-width-3.0011-980x735.png]()
![Review-chart-template-final-full-width-3.008-980x735.png]()
![Review-chart-template-final-full-width-3.009-980x735.png]()
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2995...nt-twice-as-fast-its-three-times-as-fast.html
![surface_book_vs_macbook_pro_13_cinebench_r15_multithread-100623047-orig.png]()
![surface_book_vs_macbook_pro_13_geekbench_multi-100623044-orig.png]()
No, it doesn't look good. Because those numbers are comparing the base rMBP 13". That's not a fair comparison. At $1500, you can upgrade the 13" MBP to a 3.1 i5 and it would crush those numbers.
That's WHY the price comparison matters. You can't compare an entry level 3-series BMW to a Lexus IS-F just because "they're the same size" if the 3-series is $30,000 cheaper. It's not an honest showcase. That would be like me, showcasing my boxing skills against another fighter, but I train for four months prior and go against him when he doesn't even expect it. You have to set the circumstances to be as unbiased and equal as possible.
That Surface Book is $1800 and those stats are comparing it to a $1300 MBP. Can't you see that it should be compared to a $1800 MBP? Is that really too complex for you to understand? I really don't get how people like you can just let your eyes glaze over at that fact.
Well, we don't actually KNOW which 13" MBP he used. He never says. It might have been the $1800 one. THAT was my point. That if he did use the $1800 MPB, then it DIDN'T wipe the floor with the Surface Book. So all the fanboys should HOPE he used the baseline MBP.
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@ Essenar, expecting too much of people there, they almost always react emotionally not logically....
I agree, LOL. I don't think either device will be "crushing" the other in performance. However the MBP does crush the surface book in value assuming you don't need a stylus.