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G.McGilli

macrumors 6502a
Oct 19, 2015
614
508
If the 580X gets Logic on the screen, I am good. But, I do love the available PCIe slots since much audio expansion can be done in the form of PCIe cards. Plus, I can use a card with 4 NVMe blades to get all the storage I need. Moreover, most audio plugins are RAM and CPU hungry, they don't even know what a GPU is. Finally, I don't like being limited to the display that comes with the iMac Pro.

Amen.

I've decided to rebuild a new home studio based around this computer. While pricey, I wasn't expecting the new Mac Pro to be so robust as far as upgradability - and that's pushed me towards a total studio update that should be good for another 8 - 10 years. I'm upgrading everything hardware (Audio interfaces, mics etc etc) - and the nMP will be perfect as the centre-piece for this. The expansion is what I need for the future which it has in spades.

I'd have bought it already if it was available...
 
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ZombiePhysicist

macrumors 68030
May 22, 2014
2,807
2,707
You are correct. I was referring to the spec bumped 5,1, but that didn't get a new model number.

Because it really wasn’t a spec bump. Apple oil DT source the old processors so was force to update the processors on the models with the only available CPU’s. Technically a spec bump, in reality, an insult and further dropping the ball on the Mac Pro.
 

Analog Kid

macrumors G3
Mar 4, 2003
9,019
11,798
No, the new Mac Pro is not for the vast majority of people. It's not like the previous one, where you could just buy it if you were semi pro or just a rich consumer who liked power. The trash can was a high end, but limited computer. It could be configured to be quite powerful, but the power was not unlimited.

This thing is not like a nice expensive, luxury car like other Apple computers that you can dream of buying one day when you get rich. This is like an excavator: you would never want one, and you don't need one. But companies out there can't live without it, and the world is built using tools like it.

The problem with the old design was that it was not a top of the line machine. If you were a production house with dozens of skilled employees churning out high-end film editing, VFX, grading or anything on an industrial level, there was simply no Mac for you. You could not do that on the trash can. You simply had to get a different brand of computer, and switch to Windows.

The new Mac Pro is here to fill that void. It's not simply for professionals, it's for industry production houses. If you do hardcore color grading or video editing at home and make money off of it, the Mac Pro is still not for you. It's for your employer who can treat it as an investment, just like they may buy a DCP projector or calibrated reference monitors from Flanders Scientific or Sony. Those things cost as much as the building itself, but it's the only way to produce that type of content.

So with the trash can, companies complained that "There simply isn't a Mac in existence powerful enough to do what we need." Now, that is no longer the case. There is no practical or theoretical ceiling on how powerful a Mac can be. Now even the most hardcore workflow can be done on a Mac.

This means that large production houses can invest in Macs and not have to switch to other platforms. Now high-end cinema and advertising productions can be made on a Mac. I know production houses that still use the old cheese grater linked up to DCP projectors, and it's still far more powerful than the trash can, because it could be upgraded. Now they can finally upgrade to another Mac, and for them, the price is nothing. It's the price of a bulb or two for their projector.

I think Apple wants everyone at home to use an all-in one, reserving the tower entirely for production houses. They have the iMac Pro, and they don't want anything to compete with that. Before, they made towers for the average pro, but for whatever reason they decided they don't want to do that. Maybe they never sold that well. Maybe those who bought them were happily willing to pay more for more power.

The Mac Pro, as we knew it, is gone. This is more like a server, in the sense that you'd never want to have one at home. Except maybe to grate, like, a lot of cheese.
How do we promote forum posts to "sticky"?
 

uller6

macrumors 65816
May 14, 2010
1,046
1,688
I almost wish Apple would update the trash can Mac. I think I might be one of the few that love the design. If they could upgrade it as a low end workstation that would be awesome. I'm no Apple beancounter so I don't know if there would be a market for such a device though.

I second this! I love the trash can design! Best computer ever made as far as I’m concerned: I LOVE the near silence of the machine.
 
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th0masp

macrumors 6502a
Mar 16, 2015
839
505
I almost wish Apple would update the trash can Mac. I think I might be one of the few that love the design. If they could upgrade it as a low end workstation that would be awesome. I'm no Apple beancounter so I don't know if there would be a market for such a device though.

Yeah I think it's fine, too. The main issue seems to have been that they introduced it as their high end 'workstation' and replaced a totally different type of design with it that people had certain expectations for. Really arrogant move, no wonder they got the pushback from the less ... courageous ... folks.

I wonder how much of the whole affair is really down to infighting between different teams at Apple. The post mortems must be quite the entertaining read.
 
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mavericks7913

Suspended
May 17, 2014
812
281
Probably THE best video I’ve seen discussing the new Pro that totally backs up what the OP said, most likely because the guy in the video is actually a Pro, and not a You Tuber as I keep saying and so does he:


I totally disagree.

1. There are more prosumer and low-mid end Mac Pro users than high-end Mac Pro users. Apple just abandoned those users and iMac Pro can not replace Mac Pro for prosumer and low-mid end Mac Pro users because of lack of modularity and cleaning.

2. The youtube from that video is completely ignoring several professional works such as photography or like 2D.

3. Mac Pro 2019 is def has less options and choices than previous Mac Pro series. The price range started around $3000 so that prosumer and low-mid end professional users can buy Mac Pro for their works.
 

machenryr

macrumors 6502a
Jan 25, 2016
735
97
I totally disagree.

1. There are more prosumer and low-mid end Mac Pro users than high-end Mac Pro users. Apple just abandoned those users and iMac Pro can not replace Mac Pro for prosumer and low-mid end Mac Pro users because of lack of modularity and cleaning.

2. The youtube from that video is completely ignoring several professional works such as photography or like 2D.

3. Mac Pro 2019 is def has less options and choices than previous Mac Pro series. The price range started around $3000 so that prosumer and low-mid end professional users can buy Mac Pro for their works.

Uh, the question wasn’t whether there are MORE prosumer users. Of COURSE there are. The issue is addressing those actual PROFESSIONAL users.
 

mavericks7913

Suspended
May 17, 2014
812
281
Uh, the question wasn’t whether there are MORE prosumer users. Of COURSE there are. The issue is addressing those actual PROFESSIONAL users.

Photographers are actual professionals, designers are actual professionals, graphics are actual professionals. There are a lot of professional works does not require to spend more than $6000 but $3000. You see there are a lot of professional works require Mac Pro with different modification and yet Mac Pro 2019 is targeted only for high-end production.

And you cant not ignore prosumers because Mac Pro sold more for them.
 
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machenryr

macrumors 6502a
Jan 25, 2016
735
97
Photographers are actual professionals, designers are actual professionals, graphics are actual professionals. There are a lot of professional works does not require to spend more than $6000 but $3000. You see there are a lot of professional works require Mac Pro with different modification and yet Mac Pro 2019 is targeted only for high-end production.

And you cant not ignore prosumers because Mac Pro sold more for them.

Of course they are. So am I, a musician and composer. This machine maybe a little overkill for me, but I have friends who do animation and CGI for Disney and for whomever, and audio engineers who work for Peter Jackson and Skywalker Sound. This is presumably at THAT level or pro. These guys need a SUPER computer. Apple is not ignoring the prosumer market. Their ENTIRE LINE is targeted to this market. This is the one exception. This is NOT targeted to the prosumer line.
 

mavericks7913

Suspended
May 17, 2014
812
281
Of course they are. So am I, a musician and composer. This machine maybe a little overkill for me, but I have friends who do animation and CGI for Disney and for whomever, and audio engineers who work for Peter Jackson and Skywalker Sound. This is presumably at THAT level or pro. These guys need a SUPER computer. Apple is not ignoring the prosumer market. Their ENTIRE LINE is targeted to this market. This is the one exception. This is NOT targeted to the prosumer line.

I have no idea what you are saying. The point is Apple ignored those pro users by making Mac Pro 2019 for high-end uses. Mac Pro line up WAS targeted from prosumer and now, Mac Pro 2019 didnt.

Why would Apple abandon other types of pro users? Do you really think that iMac Pro can replace for low-mid-end professional users? NO. I know Mac Pro 2019 is NOT for us but only specific high-end. But you are OP is completely ignoring those majority Mac Pro users from Prosumer to mid-range Mac Pro users
 
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barmann

macrumors 6502a
Oct 25, 2010
941
626
Germany
Of course they are. So am I, a musician and composer. This machine maybe a little overkill for me, but I have friends who do animation and CGI for Disney and for whomever, and audio engineers who work for Peter Jackson and Skywalker Sound. This is presumably at THAT level or pro. These guys need a SUPER computer. Apple is not ignoring the prosumer market. Their ENTIRE LINE is targeted to this market. This is the one exception. This is NOT targeted to the prosumer line.

Now explain to me how the new MP is a super computer ?
What I'm looking at is a typical mid range tower , with common upgrade options , a few extra options with a couple of Apple modules, plus limitations re. internal storage .

What in it's design and technology makes it special in any respect , and worth 2x as much as comparable MP 5.1s or MP 6.1s , even after inflation ?
 
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apolloa

Suspended
Oct 21, 2008
12,318
7,802
Time, because it rules EVERYTHING!
Photographers are actual professionals, designers are actual professionals, graphics are actual professionals. There are a lot of professional works does not require to spend more than $6000 but $3000. You see there are a lot of professional works require Mac Pro with different modification and yet Mac Pro 2019 is targeted only for high-end production.

And you cant not ignore prosumers because Mac Pro sold more for them.

It really is very very very simple, you are complaining about absolutely nothing. If you want a ‘pro-sumer’ machine then buy an iMac Pro, and connect a nice monitor to it for photography, I don’t think Apples new one is made for the markets you specified here.
Otherwise don’t use a Mac. It’s not as though their aren’t a plethora of other options out there!
Because Apple will NEVER make a computer for that group of people and charge 3 grand for it, not when the iMac Pro is 4900 and up. That’s nothing more then a pipe dream and will remain so.

And I should add before you go on about why can’t they use a Mac, that’s because a REAL like the guy in the video doesn’t see a brand name in the font! They see a work tool that clients pay them to use and nothing else!
 
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mavericks7913

Suspended
May 17, 2014
812
281
It really is very very very simple, you are complaining about absolutely nothing. If you want a ‘pro-sumer’ machine then buy an iMac Pro, and connect a nice monitor to it for photography, I don’t think Apples new one is made for the markets you specified here.
Otherwise don’t use a Mac. It’s not as though their aren’t a plethora of other options out there!
Because Apple will NEVER make a computer for that group of people and charge 3 grand for it, not when the iMac Pro is 4900 and up. That’s nothing more then a pipe dream and will remain so.

Stop trolling.

Do you really think that iMac Pro can replace it? NO. iMac Pro is AIO. What makes you think that people prefer AIO instead of a modular computer which you can upgrade easily and then clean easily? iMac users sued Apple because of the dust issue from last year.

Otherwise, don’t use a Mac? Are you kidding me? Apple MADE a workstation around $3000 before and why not? Also, do criticize mac computers hurts you? Then you shouldn't even tell me to leave because Apple needs to face the fact.

You are totally out of mind.
 

apolloa

Suspended
Oct 21, 2008
12,318
7,802
Time, because it rules EVERYTHING!
Stop trolling.

Do you really think that iMac Pro can replace it? NO. iMac Pro is AIO. What makes you think that people prefer AIO instead of a modular computer which you can upgrade easily and then clean easily? iMac users sued Apple because of the dust issue from last year.

Otherwise, don’t use a Mac? Are you kidding me? Apple MADE a workstation around $3000 before and why not? Also, do criticize mac computers hurts you? Then you shouldn't even tell me to leave because Apple needs to face the fact.

You are totally out of mind.

And here you have very clearly displayed you have no knowledge or appreciation of the ‘Pro’ market what so ever... if you actually understood it and listened to those on here who are in it, you’d never make a post like what I’ve quoted as you look a fool.. don’t post some shouty come back, because you do not understand the market. Or even the Apple of today it seems..
 

Macintosh IIcx

macrumors 6502a
Jul 3, 2014
609
595
Denmark
Photographers are actual professionals, designers are actual professionals, graphics are actual professionals. There are a lot of professional works does not require to spend more than $6000 but $3000. You see there are a lot of professional works require Mac Pro with different modification and yet Mac Pro 2019 is targeted only for high-end production.

The price is certainly unfortunate for photographers and graphic designers, but I think for most the iMac or iMac Pro will do the job with an added monitor if need be. Or at least that is Apple’s mantra. If you have requirements beyond those, you either pony up for the Mac Pro or move on to Windows.

Personally, I’m still in a state of apathy because of the high base price, but I’m not whining about it, I will just have to deal with it one way or another (buy or not buy). Part of being a professional is that you can find solutions to problems.
 
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mavericks7913

Suspended
May 17, 2014
812
281
And here you have very clearly displayed you have no knowledge or appreciation of the ‘Pro’ market what so ever... if you actually understood it and listened to those on here who are in it, you’d never make a post like what I’ve quotes as you look a fool.. don’t post some shouts come back, because you do not understand the market. Or even the Apple of today it seems..

You are the one who is not understanding the market. There are tons of Pro users with different requirement. What possibly do you think that low to mid range professionals needs $6000 basic Mac pro-2019 with mediocre parts? Mac Pro 2019 is focused only for specific high-end professional works and this is the problem. I totally understand the pro market and you are calling me a fool? How ignorant you are. I've been using Mac Pro series for more than 10 years.

Since you cant even support your own statement, you better explain instead of joking.
 

barmann

macrumors 6502a
Oct 25, 2010
941
626
Germany
It really is very very very simple, you are complaining about absolutely nothing. If you want a ‘pro-sumer’ machine then buy an iMac Pro, and connect a nice monitor to it for photography, I don’t think Apples new one is made for the markets you specified here.
Otherwise don’t use a Mac. It’s not as though their aren’t a plethora of other options out there!
Because Apple will NEVER make a computer for that group of people and charge 3 grand for it, not when the iMac Pro is 4900 and up. That’s nothing more then a pipe dream and will remain so.

Many people might not realize this, but iMacs have a verly large device attached to them , called a monitor .
It also is not upgradable .
iMacs are very niche , they are not an alternative to towers re. performance and flexibility, and never will be .

Also, Apple has always made affordable tower Macs , why stop now ?
iMac Pros are a recent invention, and the attempt to have them replace MacPros has failed miserably .
Hence it is sad how their existence impacts the pricing of the new MPs, with no other reason justifying it .
 

apolloa

Suspended
Oct 21, 2008
12,318
7,802
Time, because it rules EVERYTHING!
You are the one who is not understanding the market. There are tons of Pro users with different requirement. What possibly do you think that low to mid range professionals needs $6000 basic Mac pro-2019 with mediocre parts? Mac Pro 2019 is focused only for specific high-end professional works and this is the problem. I totally understand the pro market and you are calling me a fool? How ignorant you are. I've been using Mac Pro series for more than 10 years.

Since you cant even support your own statement, you better explain instead of joking.

All your doing is throwing all your toys out of the pram because YOU can’t afford the new Mac Pro, like so many others complaining about it, even though you also openly admit it’s not targeted at you!
Apple doesn’t make what you want, so why shout at everyone else? And as stated, actual Pros see tools not a brand name.
 

mavericks7913

Suspended
May 17, 2014
812
281
The price is certainly unfortunate for photographers and graphic designers, but I think for most the iMac or iMac Pro will do the job. Or at least that is Apple’s mantra. If you have requirements beyond those, you either pony up for the Mac Pro or move on to Windows.

Personally, I’m still in a state of apathy because of the high base price, but I’m not whining about it, I will just have to deal with it one way or another (buy or not buy). Part of being a professional is that you can find solutions to problems.

iMac and iMac Pro are the worst product in terms of cooling performance and maintenance. iMac 2019 with i9-9900K can maintain the speed at 3.8ghz due to overheating! Seriously? Even iMac Pro that I used overheated if I work with large PSB files and video files. There is no way to solve this UNLESS Apple make a desktop with a proper CPU cooler.

Maintenance is another issue for iMac series because you cant open it by yourself! Do you aware that iMac has the dust issue which you need to clean it monthly?
[doublepost=1560620235][/doublepost]
All your doing is throwing all your toys out of the pram because YOU can’t afford the been Mac Pro, like so many others complaining about it, even though you also openly admit it’s not targeted at you!
Apple doesn’t make what you want, so why shout at everyone else? And as stated, actual Pros see tools not a brand name.

See what barmann said and he totally disagrees with your point.

Also, I CAN AFFORD MAC PRO. What the heck are you talking about?

And stop ignoring the point here: Mac Pro 2019 is a niche product which Apple abandoned a lot of professional workers by not giving an affordable price.

iMac series can NOT replace tower Mac because of performance and flexibility. Why are you keep ignoring this point?
 

apolloa

Suspended
Oct 21, 2008
12,318
7,802
Time, because it rules EVERYTHING!
Many people might not realize this, but iMacs have a verly large device attached to them , called a monitor .
It also is not upgradable .
iMacs are very niche , they are not an alternative to towers re. performance and flexibility, and never will be .

Also, Apple has always made affordable tower Macs , why stop now ?
iMac Pros are a recent invention, and the attempt to have them replace MacPros has failed miserably .
Hence it is sad how their existence impacts the pricing of the new MPs, with no other reason justifying it .

Many people also realise you can plug another monitor into an iMac Pro, like what real Pros do... it’s not rocket science.
And you can upgrade the iMac Pro if you want to, I’m not sure many Pros will be messing about with the Mac Pro:

 

mavericks7913

Suspended
May 17, 2014
812
281
Many people also realise you can plug another monitor into an iMac Pro, like what real Pros do... it’s not rocket science.
And you can upgrade the iMac Pro if you want to, I’m not sure many Pros will be messing about with the Mac Pro:


lol are you trolling or what?

"Many people also realise you can plug another monitor into an iMac Pro, like what real Pros do... it’s not rocket science"
Like I said, iMac series have an issue with performance and flexibility because of its form factor. Did you even read the comment?

"And you can upgrade the iMac Pro if you want to, I’m not sure many Pros will be messing about with the Mac Pro"
You can not upgrade by yourself or otherwise, your iMac Pro wont be repairable because Apple wont gonna take your iMac Pro no matter what you are saying. Do I really have to open and dismantle all parts to add RAM and CPU? Oh yeah, you can upgrade SSD since no one is selling it.
 

Macintosh IIcx

macrumors 6502a
Jul 3, 2014
609
595
Denmark
iMac and iMac Pro are the worst product in terms of cooling performance and maintenance. iMac 2019 with i9-9900K can maintain the speed at 3.8ghz due to overheating! Seriously? Even iMac Pro that I used overheated if I work with large PSB files and video files. There is no way to solve this UNLESS Apple make a desktop with a proper CPU cooler.

Maintenance is another issue for iMac series because you cant open it by yourself! Do you aware that iMac has the dust issue which you need to clean it monthly?

I thought the iMac Pro would do better, but beyond that I agree with you on a personal level - neither the iMac or iMac Pro is for me. Would it be nice with a Mac Pro less “over engineered” and cheaper? Yes, we would all (!) agree to that. But that was not to be, and everybody have to make a decision. It is what it is. There will not be a xMac.
 

Pressure

macrumors 603
May 30, 2006
5,081
1,419
Denmark
It's clear the new Mac Pro is for a different subset of users than before. Just look at the reveal video again.

They are talking multiple 8K streams and even more 4K streams applying real time color grading and effects onto. They even used an unreleased Canon 8K camera that spits out 8K ProRes RAW 4:4:4 in their demo to showcase the new machine and display.

Surely people had different expectations but looking at it from those it is targeted at, it is cheap compared to what other stuff they need.

The RED DSMC2 Brain with 8K sensor alone is $54,500. You want a few cine lenses with that? Drop another $40,000 - 80,000 on that. Media? RED Mini Mag 960GB $2,950 per unit, we are recording 8K after all. And then you still don't have a camera ready to actually record anything. I doubt the Canon 8K will be cheaper knowing Canon.

The biggest change is the Afterburner card that will change the workflow for many working with video as well as the reference Pro Display XDR, which I personally think stole the show. Luckily the Afterburner is a normal PCIe x16 card, so it should work in a Hackintosh or the MP5,1 hacked to run Catalina (at which point it will also be a Hackintosh...).

Best of all, the display does not require the MP7,1 and can be powered by anything running DP1.4.
 
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machenryr

macrumors 6502a
Jan 25, 2016
735
97
Boy am I sorry i stepped into this cesspool and pissing match. I’m probably going to suck it up and get this. Not doing the pissing match contest. I see the need for this machine for CGI, film industry, et al. I plan on keeping it for ten years, meaning it’s likely one of my last computer purchases. I use two 2009/2010 5,1 MacPros now. They’re limping quite nicely, but limping. My wife wants me to stop throwing more money at these 10 year old machines and plan for the future. What a wife, huh?
 
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