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How do you feel about your trashcan (mac pro 6,1)?

  • Love it!

    Votes: 24 63.2%
  • Like it!

    Votes: 10 26.3%
  • Hate it!

    Votes: 4 10.5%

  • Total voters
    38
  • Poll closed .

Falhófnir

macrumors 603
Aug 19, 2017
6,146
6,998
It would be a cool design to repurpose as just a standard consumer mac desktop, something to sit above (or replace?) the mini but a lot cheaper than the new Pro. Swap in some regular desktop i5/i7/i9 or Ryzen equivalents and a Radeon Pro 5300/5500 or similar (plus maybe a base option without dedicated graphics if its replacing the mini fully). I guess it would depend if they could hit a ~$1,000 starting price or so using the design...
 

MisterAndrew

macrumors 68030
Sep 15, 2015
2,883
2,363
Portland, Ore.
Sounds interesting, the app has a Windows binary that tends to run marginally better than the Mac equivalent so it might be interesting to try this out. I suppose though that a successful test on Mojave does not mean that this is a future proof solution?

Not going to install Catalina just for fun. :)

Just make a new volume on your APFS drive (it dynamically shares free space) or install Catalina on an external drive.
 

throAU

macrumors G3
Feb 13, 2012
8,977
7,152
Perth, Western Australia
Edit: for eGPU the comparisons I have seen also indicate minor performance differences between the various TB generations. Not enough of a difference to strongly prefer TB3, at least going by the numbers on egpu.io

The big thing is that eGPU on Thunderbolt 3 is OFFICIALLY SUPPORTED.

i.e., you know it isn't going to break in 6 or 12 months or whatever. eGPU over thunderbolt 2 and previous (whilst has been possible since TB1) is not officially supported and may get broken by Apple for whatever reason at any point.

If you're making a hardware purchasing decision, IMHO it makes sense to me to consider the value of official support for this.
 

th0masp

macrumors 6502a
Mar 16, 2015
839
506
The big thing is that eGPU on Thunderbolt 3 is OFFICIALLY SUPPORTED.

i.e., you know it isn't going to break in 6 or 12 months or whatever. eGPU over thunderbolt 2 and previous (whilst has been possible since TB1) is not officially supported and may get broken by Apple for whatever reason at any point.

If you're making a hardware purchasing decision, IMHO it makes sense to me to consider the value of official support for this.

Of course it makes sense to factor in support. But isn't this the tread about the Trashcan, yesteryear's attempt at redefining the desktop that you won't be able to purchase from the manufacturer anymore? Surely nobody would buy this one for a business application now.

If I want to know about Apple support I'll look at the T2 bridge OS situation and how swiftly that one was resolved. :)
 

throAU

macrumors G3
Feb 13, 2012
8,977
7,152
Perth, Western Australia
Of course it makes sense to factor in support. But isn't this the tread about the Trashcan, yesteryear's attempt at redefining the desktop that you won't be able to purchase from the manufacturer anymore? Surely nobody would buy this one for a business application now.

Well, if you were considering a bake-off between a current mini and a trashcan, it's relevant.
 

Michael Vogt

macrumors newbie
Feb 24, 2020
5
0
6,1 or 7,1 wondering same thing
I have at Home
5,1 Mid 2010 Mac OS Sierra 2X2.4 Quad core ,128 GB ram , AMD R9 1 SSD 2Tb drive and 3 2TB SATA
What I have found is Software has limited me to upgrade to the Newer Mac OS but could so if I quit using one App Otherwise its fine for all Video work were doing .
But I have a 5,1 at our church that we would like to use a newer version of software and we can't because of Hardware so was thinking of getting a 2013 MacPro 12 Core D700 but to upgrade it to what I would like it to have getting close to $4000 so I'm thinking maybe a MacPro 7,1 is better in the long run very upgradable would do everything right out of the box maybe get get 10 years out of it [LOL] its still Apple The 7,1 becomes a investment at a base price $6000
 

tpivette89

macrumors 6502a
Jan 1, 2018
536
294
Middletown, DE
Thing is, you can get a base model 4-core/D300 trashcan for around $1000 - $1200. Then, add 64GB of RAM for around $100, and upgrade the CPU to either a 2667 8-core for $150, or a 2697 12-core for a little under $200. Then you have a pretty capable machine for less than a third of the base model 7,1.

As mentioned before, however, if using this in a professional (business) environment, this machine will probably only be officially supported for the next 5 years or so (2 more years of OS updates, and 3 years afterwards of security upgrades) and doesn't make much sense. If this is your personal or hobbyist machine, then it's a justifiable buy.
 

sigmadog

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Feb 11, 2009
835
753
just west of Idaho
Thing is, you can get a base model 4-core/D300 trashcan for around $1000 - $1200. Then, add 64GB of RAM for around $100, and upgrade the CPU to either a 2667 8-core for $150, or a 2697 12-core for a little under $200. Then you have a pretty capable machine for less than a third of the base model 7,1.

As mentioned before, however, if using this in a professional (business) environment, this machine will probably only be officially supported for the next 5 years or so (2 more years of OS updates, and 3 years afterwards of security upgrades) and doesn't make much sense. If this is your personal or hobbyist machine, then it's a justifiable buy.


Assuming your 5-year support scenario is accurate (and it's as decent a guess as any can make here), five years of productivity for an initial cost of $1600 - $1800 makes reasonable business sense to me. I've usually worked my Mac Pros for 4-6 years before replacement, and usually at an initial cost of $3000 or so.

The type of work I do hasn't changed all that much, so the need for the newest/fastest model simply isn't there. My primary need is for hardware that can run Mojave (at least), and perhaps Catalina and the next one or two updates so that I can stay up to date with my software (Adobe Creative Cloud and a few others). It's cool if I have to ride an OS for a couple years in order to keep from buying new hardware. I've done it before (I'm still on Sierra at the moment, and I rode Snow Leopard for about 5 years prior to that).

Yes, I know the 5,1 can run Mojave and Catalina, but the way I've got my system set up, upgrading would be a nightmare. I've looked into it, and concluded I simply don't have the time (or inclination) to waste on it.

So it's not more speed I'm after. That said, the 2013 trashcan in any configuration is still faster than my 5,1 (going by Geekbench scores which are arguably not real-world tests, but are better than nothing).

I like the idea of avoiding the Apple Tax by buying used. I'll be honest, six years ago these computers had a lot of power but were overpriced for my needs at $4000+. But now, that amount of power, while not impressive by today's standards, is enough for me and is priced very reasonably at $1800 or so.
 
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tsialex

Contributor
Jun 13, 2016
13,137
13,326
Assuming your 5-year support scenario is accurate (and it's as decent a guess as any can make here), five years of productivity for an initial cost of $1600 - $1800 makes reasonable business sense to me. I've usually worked my Mac Pros for 4-6 years before replacement, and usually at an initial cost of $3000 or so.

The type of work I do hasn't changed all that much, so the need for the newest/fastest model simply isn't there. My primary need is for hardware that can run Mojave (at least), and perhaps Catalina and the next one or two updates so that I can stay up to date with my software (Adobe Creative Cloud and a few others). It's cool if I have to ride an OS for a couple years in order to keep from buying new hardware. I've done it before (I'm still on Sierra at the moment, and I rode Snow Leopard for about 5 years prior to that).

Yes, I know the 5,1 can run Mojave and Catalina, but the way I've got my system set up, upgrading would be a nightmare. I've looked into it, and concluded I simply don't have the time (or inclination) to waste on it.

So it's not more speed I'm after. That said, the 2013 trashcan in any configuration is still faster than my 5,1 (going by Geekbench scores which are arguably not real-world tests, but are better than nothing).

I like the idea of avoiding the Apple Tax by buying used. I'll be honest, six years ago these computers had a lot of power but were overpriced for my needs at $4000+. But now, that amount of power, while not impressive by today's standards, is enough for me and is priced very reasonably at $1800 or so.
It's two years of Security Updates after a new macOS is released, not three. Apple macOS support is on a three year cycle. Sierra don't have any more Security Updates since the day Catalina was released.

A sure bet is that Apple will support MP6,1 with 10.16. So, you have three years of macOS support from October this year, October 2023.

A possible/reasonable bet is that Apple will support MP6,1 with 10.17, so three years of macOS support from October 2021, it will end at October 2024.

Even with the improbable scenario that Apple don't support MP6,1 with 10.16, you will have Security Updates for Catalina until October 2022.
 
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sigmadog

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Feb 11, 2009
835
753
just west of Idaho
It's two years of Security Updates after a new macOS is released, not three. Apple macOS support is on a three year cycle. Sierra don't have any more Security Updates since the day Catalina was released.

A sure bet is that Apple will support MP6,1 with 10.16. So, you have three years of macOS support from October this year, October 2023.

A possible/reasonable bet is that Apple will support MP6,1 with 10.17, so three years of macOS support from October 2021, it will end at October 2024.

Even with the improbable scenario that Apple don't support MP6,1 with 10.16, you will have Security Updates for Catalina until October 2022.

And that's fine because I don't mind sticking with an older OS that works for me as long as my daily software is still compatible and current.
 

richmlow

macrumors 6502
Jul 17, 2002
379
273
While it is true that the 2013 Mac Pro has its limitations, it certainly meets my modest needs. Fortunately, it's been rock-solid. I use it for web surfing, playing games, music/movie playback, Mathematica programming, and typesetting research articles (LaTeX).
 
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teohyc

macrumors 6502a
May 24, 2007
510
419
I'm trying to decide between a new mini or a used trashcan. So all you trashcan users, answer my poll on what you think of your machine. And in the thread tell me what you use it for, and how long you plan to keep it.

Thanks!

Buy the appropriate computer for the type of work you do.

You did not even say what work you do.
 

sigmadog

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Feb 11, 2009
835
753
just west of Idaho
Buy the appropriate computer for the type of work you do.

You did not even say what work you do.
Part of the process is determining which computer is right for me. That's the point of the poll. I'm not asking for advice, just polling other peoples' experiences. Hearing how other people use their computers and if they like 'em helps me decide what will work for me.

I'm not interested in the typical "you should get this" or "you should get that" thread, so I didn't give any details about my specific needs (until a few posts ago). Instead I wanted to hear about others' experiences and then decide for myself.
 

yellowbunny

macrumors 6502
Jun 27, 2010
293
459
I bought a 4 core two years ago and recently updated to 12 core and 64gb. It's been an amazing machine for me. Super easy to upgrade, super quiet and super stable. I hope they keep supporting it for a while. I know geekbench is not the whole story but its not that far behind the new mac pro for around 1/4 the price...

I can easily add an egpu if I want to take it to next level.

I use it for FCPX, resolve and design work.
 
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loby

macrumors 68000
Jul 1, 2010
1,846
1,459
It's two years of Security Updates after a new macOS is released, not three. Apple macOS support is on a three year cycle. Sierra don't have any more Security Updates since the day Catalina was released.

A sure bet is that Apple will support MP6,1 with 10.16. So, you have three years of macOS support from October this year, October 2023.

A possible/reasonable bet is that Apple will support MP6,1 with 10.17, so three years of macOS support from October 2021, it will end at October 2024.

Even with the improbable scenario that Apple don't support MP6,1 with 10.16, you will have Security Updates for Catalina until October 2022.

If your purchase is for more so productivity and you are not slaved into the cloud with Adobe, security updates should not be the deciding factor. Any somewhat production system should not be on the internet constantly regardless and I turn the wifi off when working, processing etc. Software now a -days "calls home" a lot, meaning contact their company's servers for various reasons constantly (get a firewall app and watch how often your software checks for updates and/or sends info etc.) and this can disturb processing/work or cause errors. I noticed this when using audio and video programs while on the internet, especially with Adobe and Microsoft..

Take your production machine off the internet and if the 6.1mp is enough for your needs (as mine is), then cost wise is a good option if you don't care about upgrading to the latest and greatest eye-candy OS. I will update to 12-core on my mac pro 2013 and that should be plenty for some years. I use it mostly for FCPX, Motion and Logic Pro X. MacOS Mojave and maybe Catalina (after a few more versions) will probably be the "stay-on" OS for the mac pro 2013.
 
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teohyc

macrumors 6502a
May 24, 2007
510
419
Part of the process is determining which computer is right for me. That's the point of the poll. I'm not asking for advice, just polling other peoples' experiences. Hearing how other people use their computers and if they like 'em helps me decide what will work for me.

I'm not interested in the typical "you should get this" or "you should get that" thread, so I didn't give any details about my specific needs (until a few posts ago). Instead I wanted to hear about others' experiences and then decide for myself.

I see from your signature you have a MacPro 6,1. I've that Mac Pro too, but it's quad 3.7Ghz.

I've been tempted to upgrade to the Mac Mini, iMac and even the MBP released recently but I've always held back. Those new computers are significantly faster than my 2013 Mac Pro.

I do a lot of 4K video editing which could really use the extra processing power....

BUT getting a new Mac doesn't help me create more content because the bottleneck is my lack of time, not how much time it takes to export a video.

A video can spend hours to export and that's fine with me because the Mac Pro can export videos overnight.
 
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fiatlux

macrumors 6502
Dec 5, 2007
352
140
I have recently switched from an upgraded MP4,1 to a MP6,1 - but have not sold the cMP yet.

I am still undecided as to whether I love or hate the MP6,1, even if I make abstraction of the problems I mentioned here.

On the pros side, it offers a combination of good CPU perf, OK GPU perf, some storage and plenty of RAM extensibility in a nice, small and quiet form factor.

On the cons side, we know the GPUs are not upgradable (beyond swapping D300 for D500 or D700), but there is the eGPU option if required.

What frustrates me the most is probably the storage situation:
  • internal storage performances are a bit disappointing compared to what I achieved in my cMP with a simple PCIe/M2 adapter (the original built-in SSDs are way slower than contemporary options and the proprietary slot is limited by the PCIe 2.0 x4 bandwidth)
  • while TB2 bandwidth is OK on paper, there are actually very few high-performance TB2 storage options (and most are no longer available new and rare on the second-hand market). In particular, I'd love a bus-powered TB2 enclosure for M2/PCIe SSDs but found none. And bus-powered TB3 disks do not work with the TB2/TB3 adapter :(
This combined with other teething problems make me wonder if I shouldn't go back to the cMP (and probably stick to Mojave for a couple more years).
 
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techwhiz

macrumors 65816
Feb 22, 2010
1,297
1,804
Northern Ca.
I was looking at a Mini with i7, and 1 TB of storage with 3dr party 64 GB of memory. The total including tax and apple care came to $1599 + $150 tax + $350 (OWC 64GB memory) = $2099

I was able to get an 8 core trashcan with 16GB memory, 1TB and 8 core with a 2 year warranty for $1400
Add 64GB of memory for $199 and a total of $1599 and I'm in for $500 cheaper with better GPU.

Yeah I know, old machine, etc., but since Apple sold the machine up until 2019 they all be supporting the machine for at least about 5 years.

I needed a new machine since my 2008 is not upgradeable to the current OS.
It is my Pro Tools rig and I'm not ready to go to PT HDX due to expense
My solution is the run it headless and leave it on the old version of OS and treat it like a peripheral and move everything else to my new machine. I'll revisit another upgrade in a few years when the 2020 machines start hitting the used market. There is a company that virtualizes Mac software and they keep machines for about 3 years, they'll be pulling 2020 machines for replacement at about that time.

Anyway, waiting for delivery.
Forcing me to be at home makes me spend money as I look around and see stuff that I need to upgrade.
 
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tsialex

Contributor
Jun 13, 2016
13,137
13,326
Yeah I know, old machine, etc., but since Apple sold the machine up until 2019 they all be supporting the machine for at least about 5 years.

Don't bet on 5 years of support for late 2013 Mac Pro.

Since 10.7, Apple only supports a macOS release for the year of the release and the two subsequent years. For 5 years of support, Apple will have to support MP6,1 with 10.19:

macOS Release:Year Of The macOS Release:First Year Of Security Updates:Second Year Of Security Updates:
10.15201920202021
10.16202020212022
10.17202120222023
10.18202220232024
10.19202320242025

While late 2013 Mac Pro has very good chances of being supported by 10.16, the chances of 10.17 support are slim, 10.18 and 10.19 are probably a no go. Intel is dropping support for older processors at each time a major vulnerability is found, Apple will stop supporting MP6,1 the moment that Intel drops it and MP6,1 Xeon family, Ivy Bridge, is the oldest Xeon currently supported.
 

AidenShaw

macrumors P6
Feb 8, 2003
18,667
4,676
The Peninsula
Yeah I know, old machine, etc., but since Apple sold the machine up until 2019 they [will] be supporting the machine for at least about 5 years.
There is no guarantee for that length of support, or what "support" means.

Does "support" mean the Apple OSX 2024 will install on it? Will it be patched and updated?

What Apple has typically done, and what contractually they must do, are two different things.

(If Apple has made a statement about end-of-support support for the 6,1, please correct me.)
 

flowrider

macrumors 604
Nov 23, 2012
7,248
2,967
Don't bet on 5 years of support for late 2013 Mac Pro.

Since 10.7, Apple only supports a macOS release for the year of the release and the two subsequent years. For 5 years of support, Apple will have to support MP6,1 with 10.19:

While late 2013 Mac Pro has very good chances of being supported by 10.16, the chances of 10.17 support are slim, 10.18 and 10.19 are probably a no go. Intel is dropping support for older processors at each time a major vulnerability is found, Apple will stop supporting MP6,1 the moment that Intel drops it and MP6,1 Xeon family, Ivy Bridge, is the oldest Xeon currently supported.

I disagree. I agree with support through OS 10.16, which will be released next year. Then Apple will support that OS with security updates for another three years - through 2024, or 5 years from now.

Lou
 

tsialex

Contributor
Jun 13, 2016
13,137
13,326

gnomeisland

macrumors 65816
Jul 30, 2008
1,094
829
New York, NY
A real shame they did not do an interim update to Thunderbolt 3 with the 6,1. When you hang drives from a TB3 imac , if they are ssds with usb gen2 housings, you get about 500mb/sec so the lack of internal storage options seems a bit less important..... In most respects the 6,1 is a lot more upgradeable than the mac mini.
This was my biggest beef. Has there been another consumer machine that stayed on the shelf as long without a single hardware update? I know the form factor isn't for everyone, and I wish the GPU's were at least take-it-to-a-shop upgradeable, but my complaint was Apple never updated the components or switched to TB3. Heck, even the same CPU/GPU with TB3 would have upped the longevity.

If Apple does transition fully to ARM based Macs, I hope they bring back this form factor as an option (before I get staked and burned, let them keep the cheese grater+ too!). With Apple controlling the silicon I think they could have done much, much more with it!
 
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