I use Windows 11 daily, and dabble occasionally in Linux, so if Macs (my first choice) disappeared, I'd shed a single tear, shrug, and switch.
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Thought experiment: What if Apple stops making computers one day?
- Thread starter richmlow
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If you do experience hardware failure why should your data be lost with regular backups. You do backups don't you?!!
The beauty with these older 27" iMacs is the relative ease at changing out hardware components, and installing a good SSD (dumping the truly awful optional fusion drive if present) and you have an excellent iMac - even in 2023!
I'll probably continue to use my Mac mini Late 2012 as long as it works. If the browser gets outdated (certificates and so on) I'll probably have a VM with Linux and a supported browser on my mac.
Don't hold your breath for a replacement just yet though! Many thought it may happen in Q4 of 2021 shortly after the 24" iMac M1 but it didn't. And here we are in 2023 and still waiting......
And as for, 'What if Apple stops making computers one day?'. As far as I'm concerned they've already stopped making exciting looking computers. And you can bet your mother-in-law's dentures that if/when a new larger iMac is announced, it won't have any user upgradeable components. Not to worry though; I'll still have a very functional earlier very upgraded iMac which will still last for years.
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Interesting question.
I wonder if people had similar shower thoughts back in the 1980s with regard to IBM. What if IBM stopped making PCs. Now look at them, a service orientated company.
I think its possible that Apple transforms into a service company, but not likely. Apple's hardware is means to generate income for Apple's services. The iPod is a great example of this. The revolutionary part of the iPod was not the device but rather tying it to iTunes where people could buy music. Apple made billions on the music, so like with the iPhone, and Mac, the hardware opens the door to other income streams. To that point I don't envision them stopping
I also have a late 2012 Mac Mini - a great upgradeable machine running Mojave! I don't think one has to worry unduly about outdated browsers, especially if one uses the patches currently available and future releases which will surely follow.
To give a (somewhat exceptional) example, I also regularly use a 2004 G4 PowerPC iMac with a web browser that has been especially tailored for it, namely Sorbet Leopard 10.5.9. And love it. Sure, I don't use it for banking or other sites that could possibly compromise security, but with the hundreds of other favourite sites used regularly I've never had any nasty Malware or other security threats.
If we believe all we read, Apple's M1 chip is considered more secure than Intel processors, however it's been claimed that Malware was found on an m1 Mac soon after launch. Either with new or older models, I reckon a safe password at boot, and an updated search engine such as Firefox with perhaps one or more security add-ons, gives a relatively safe belt & braces feeling.
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I think a lot of people have to focus on the reality.
Apple’s most expandable Mac is the Mac pro, and they don’t even sell 1 million of those a year.
The Mac Studio only sold 600,000 units last year.
Meanwhile the hard drives, RAM, and pretty much everything on the MacBook line hasn’t been upgradable in years, the ram over a decade, and they still sell in the millions.
Upgrading ram, processors, storage, graphics cards… That’s a niche within a niche within a niche.
More people choose iPads than they do MacBooks. Obviously, no one cares about upgrading their iPads internals.
More people will choose a laptop over a desktop. Laptops especially from Apple haven’t been upgradable in years.
More people choose all in ones then do towers. The smaller iMac also hasn’t been upgradable in years, and the bigger one is discontinued.
And plenty of people get true “Pro” work done on iPads, MacBooks and iMacs.
The idea that expandability is a requirement for “pro” work is insane.
Computers from 20 years ago were expandable, and yet… People are still choosing to use the 2021-23 MacBook Pro and the Mac Studio (totally unupgradable machines) instead of their old 06 Mac Pro that they could stuff with RAM and graphics cards and drives.
That kind of expandability is really not important to the majority.
Apple’s most expandable Mac is the Mac pro, and they don’t even sell 1 million of those a year.
The Mac Studio only sold 600,000 units last year.
Meanwhile the hard drives, RAM, and pretty much everything on the MacBook line hasn’t been upgradable in years, the ram over a decade, and they still sell in the millions.
Upgrading ram, processors, storage, graphics cards… That’s a niche within a niche within a niche.
More people choose iPads than they do MacBooks. Obviously, no one cares about upgrading their iPads internals.
More people will choose a laptop over a desktop. Laptops especially from Apple haven’t been upgradable in years.
More people choose all in ones then do towers. The smaller iMac also hasn’t been upgradable in years, and the bigger one is discontinued.
And plenty of people get true “Pro” work done on iPads, MacBooks and iMacs.
The idea that expandability is a requirement for “pro” work is insane.
Computers from 20 years ago were expandable, and yet… People are still choosing to use the 2021-23 MacBook Pro and the Mac Studio (totally unupgradable machines) instead of their old 06 Mac Pro that they could stuff with RAM and graphics cards and drives.
That kind of expandability is really not important to the majority.
No idea what you’re talking about, how would you know that their current computers don’t have the longevity of the ones in the past if you haven’t owned one?
The 2006 Mac Pro saw its final software update in 2012, only six years after it was introduced.
Apple only four months ago dropped support for the eight years old iPad Air2 and the seven years old 2015 MacBook Pro.
And since the graphics have become integrated, there’s been way less reports of GPU failure like there was with the 2008 and 2011 MacBook Pro’s.
I can not find a single shred of evidence that since Apple started soldering ram in 2012 and started putting the SSD directly on the logic board in 2015 that the longevity of their computers has gone down.
It’s not like the 2013 mac pro or the 2015 iMac being discussed here is that upgradable either…
Depends on what you consider "computers".
In the broadest sense, the iPhone, Apple Watch, iPad, iMac, Macbook, et cetera, are all computers.
If Apple stops making ALL of that, then they're not really "Apple" anymore, are they? It's like asking if a company that makes chocolate is still the same company after it stops making chocolates.
But if you mean only desktops, then it means that Apple will narrow its product lines. It's a viable strategy, but also more dangerous. Because it requires on a few product lines to turn a profit. If Apple bets everything on the iPhone and the iPhone flops, well...
Right now, Apple is neglecting whatever makes them good – the user experience – for a quicker buck. It works for a while, but if you only sell your hardware because it is the only hardware that does X or that is the easiest to use, what happens when you become like your competitors, but more expensive and limited?
Suppose that Apple neglects the iPhone so much that the Google Pixel becomes better in every way: prettier, smoother, more stable, more cutting edge.
WHY would I spend more money on an iPhone in this scenario?
I'm not stupid. And many other users aren't.
In the broadest sense, the iPhone, Apple Watch, iPad, iMac, Macbook, et cetera, are all computers.
If Apple stops making ALL of that, then they're not really "Apple" anymore, are they? It's like asking if a company that makes chocolate is still the same company after it stops making chocolates.
But if you mean only desktops, then it means that Apple will narrow its product lines. It's a viable strategy, but also more dangerous. Because it requires on a few product lines to turn a profit. If Apple bets everything on the iPhone and the iPhone flops, well...
Right now, Apple is neglecting whatever makes them good – the user experience – for a quicker buck. It works for a while, but if you only sell your hardware because it is the only hardware that does X or that is the easiest to use, what happens when you become like your competitors, but more expensive and limited?
Suppose that Apple neglects the iPhone so much that the Google Pixel becomes better in every way: prettier, smoother, more stable, more cutting edge.
WHY would I spend more money on an iPhone in this scenario?
I'm not stupid. And many other users aren't.
Hello Lounge vibes 05,
My 2013 Mac Pro is able to last 10+ years for my workflow, due to the expandability of RAM and SSD upgrades. If you look at one of my responses in this particular thread, I did mention the expandability of the 2013 Mac Pro!
However, my 2019 MacBook Pro (13") will NOT be able to last until 2029 for my workflow, due to its locked-down design.
All the best,
richmlow
To address the lack of expandability of other Macs... some of my thoughts below
- Mac Studio M1 Ultra with maxed out memory & maxed out CPU cores that have least GPU cores
- external Thunderbolt 3 SSD drive with 40Gbps throughput
- fin
Assuming your apps are now Universal Binaries to work with Apple silicon odds are a 2022 or 2023 Mac Studio Ultra would perform computations at a fraction of the time at a power consumption below 215W.
I get the allure of user upgradeable memory & storage but these add size/weight/latency. Yes its cheaper to be modular as Apple upgrades are 2-3x or more expensive.
I think the only way you'd be convinced to upgrade is when you see another personal with same/similar workflow using a Mac Studio Ultra and seeing in person the improved workflow in terms of time saved.
- Mac Studio M1 Ultra with maxed out memory & maxed out CPU cores that have least GPU cores
- external Thunderbolt 3 SSD drive with 40Gbps throughput
- fin
Assuming your apps are now Universal Binaries to work with Apple silicon odds are a 2022 or 2023 Mac Studio Ultra would perform computations at a fraction of the time at a power consumption below 215W.
I get the allure of user upgradeable memory & storage but these add size/weight/latency. Yes its cheaper to be modular as Apple upgrades are 2-3x or more expensive.
I think the only way you'd be convinced to upgrade is when you see another personal with same/similar workflow using a Mac Studio Ultra and seeing in person the improved workflow in terms of time saved.
What?
All of your assumptions on how Apple’s computers are getting worse start based on you going from the best top-of-the-line, most expensive desktop computer they made… and then switching to one of their cheapest laptops?
That’s not an Apples to Apples comparison at all.
There’s no reason any of Apple’s current high-end laptops and desktops shouldn’t last you around a decade.
I could switch to Linux and make it work. There would be apps I'd miss but maybe it'd encourage third-party developers to start serious development for Linux as people migrate over.
They would be just fine because they make Azure, Microsoft Office and Xbox One S. Chances are they would migrate their API to Linux (maybe even investing in Wine) should that ever happen.
But under the current conditions, that's not going to happen anytime soon.
I used windows for most of my professional life and still have a windows machine. In spite of having a MBP, iPad, iPhone, and Apple Watch, I’m still not sure if I would buy a new mini or a windows machine when my present Windows desktop dies. Excel is so much better than numbers and I would want all the windows features in the Mac version. Bottom line, I wouldn’t miss Apple computers.
A few years ago I couldn't make the switch to Linux, but now that I can (theoretically) run almost everything I need in a browser, it would be fairly easy. I would only miss one program, but I could work around that.
Hello Lounge vibes 05,
You're missing my point.
The so-called "cheapest" laptop (my 2019 MacBook Pro 13") is considerably more powerful than my 2013 Mac Pro. Yet, the 2013 Mac Pro (because of its upgradability) has lasted 10+ for my workflow. In stark contrast, I'm quite sure that my 2019 MacBook Pro 13" (because of its non-upgradability) will NOT last me until 2029.
richmlow
I prefer to use MacOS, but really there's nothing at all that would stop me going to a Windows alternative if Macs went away. If anything Apple Silicon Macs seem to be having a bit of a renaissance, possibly to the slight detriment of iPads... Now, I don't know what I'd use instead of an iPad Pro. Nothing available that would really be a 1:1 replacement.
Thats your problem, you are projecting an Intel MacBook Pro which are going to be obsolete pretty soon. Apple has moved on to a much more futuristic and better Architecture.