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bviktor

macrumors regular
Sep 19, 2019
221
442
He seems like a smart enough guy not accidentally to conflate “allow sideloading” with “compel sideloading,” so he must understand that users aren’t going to be exposed to the risks he cites unless they choose to be.
Users are dumb. That's the biggest issue here.
 
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Slix

macrumors 65816
Mar 24, 2010
1,452
2,019
I think he's right. iOS users want privacy and security, even if they don't fully understand what that means on a technical level. Apple wants to give that privacy and security to users, and the way they've done that is great so far.

I've asked a few people who are more tech-oriented about sideloading on iOS, and no one can tell me a single app they want to see that the App Store can't provide. It's like people want "control" without knowing what they'll actually control when given the choice.
 

wordsworth

macrumors 6502
Apr 7, 2011
306
269
UK
The Apple brand is one of the company's greatest strengths, hard earned over decades. Steve Jobs helped launch the company, eventually found himself banished from it thanks to what was merely standard business practice at the time, and then returned as the prodigal son when the business experts in the boardroom had failed to turn things around. Apple nearly went out of business, probably more than once during those Jobs years. It used to be a minnow in the great tech pond. It was really up against it.

We all know (don't we?) how things moved on and upwards for Apple, on a global scale so awesome that the Apple brand has since become a benchmark signifier culturally. Not a bad result for those guys in the garage and all us Apple customers who 'got it' – those customers buying their Apple IIs, Lisas, and on down through the years before Apple became as much a fashion to many as it was tech company. These days, thanks to the Internet, everyone's an expert but of course not everyone can see the bigger picture (or even the detail) – because their vested interests obscure the view.

So for Apple to have achieved all that progress and commensurate success, and then for others – well-meaning consumers and, less so, politicians and competitors – to expect the company to allow a profound dilution of those very strengths that makes Apple what it is, by initiating third-party interference and the inevitable undermining of the brand and user experience (and that's what will begin to happen were sideloading to be imposed), makes little sense, certainly not to Apple, and not to this consumer either. I buy Apple because it's Apple. I know what I'm getting and it suits me very well. I'm willing to pay a premium to get it and it's worth it. There are lots of other choices that I could have made. I've made mine because Apple's is a compelling case and gives me what I want and rely on.

For those Apple customers who don't know nearly enough about their devices in the way that seasoned Apple purchasers and 'fanboys' do, they've simply hit lucky with their (less-informed) choice of Apple computer, phone, etc and will benefit regardless of how aware they are of the merits of their choices and what provides the technical basis for these merits. A diluted version of Apple will not be helpful to these people either.

Apple does not have a monopoly. It is a competitor with its own unique attributes, long developed, well worked and in many ways superior. Thus it has established itself as the global company it is now. Unfortunately, everyone wants to take a shot at the champ. It's human nature and it's probably always been like that. It's not always appropriate though, and so called experts might do well by reminding themselves of the bigger picture. Take away a bit of what makes Apple great and ultimately we might not be left with any of what we actually value about Apple.
 

Mousse

macrumors 68040
Apr 7, 2008
3,509
6,742
Flea Bottom, King's Landing
they-who-would-give-up-an-essential-liberty-for-temporary-28219944.png

Don't piss down our backs and tell us it's raining. You don't lose any security by allowing sideloading. There is negligible gain in security by disallowing sideloading.

If Apple is serious about security, build a proper firewall in to iOS. Data miners will have a harder time collecting my data than an incel would have of getting a girl.
 

anthogag

macrumors 68020
Jan 15, 2015
2,172
3,587
Canada
Apple has a dominant position with App Store. Privacy is very important but Apple should get ready for side-loading because otherwise it is a monopolistic situation. Apple could say apps sideloading into Apple devices should be regulated for user privacy.
 

sw1tcher

macrumors 603
Jan 6, 2004
5,483
19,235
It's not sorted at all, it won't prevent all the ignorant people from launching lawsuits against Apple for not protecting them.
Have there been many lawsuits against Apple for the ability to "sideload" apps on a Mac? What about against Microsoft and people "sideloading" apps on Windows?


And it's also unclear WHY I'd want sideloading on my phone? What for? Do I hate all the vetting Apple does on those apps? NOPE. Why do you think Android has 50 times more malware? App Store works just fine, I don't need anything else, thanks.
Oh. I see. So that's how it works. Just because you don't want or have a use for something, everyone else must also feel the same way.
 

mikethemartian

macrumors 65816
Jan 5, 2017
1,483
2,239
Melbourne, FL
It sure would be nice if the US gov cared as much about protecting consumer privacy from big business as they are about forcing Apple to allow side loading.

I mean if there were consumer protections, the whole Apple argument over user privacy melts away.

Maybe they should focus on passing that bill first.
Or you can stop using free services from companies that use and sell your data.
 

laptech

macrumors 68040
Apr 26, 2013
3,600
4,005
Earth
Cook reflected on Apple's ongoing commitment to privacy, which the company has repeatedly described as a fundamental human right.

So, Tim Cook believes privacy is a funamental human right. Maybe he should try explaining that to the citizens of China and Russia who do not have that 'fundamental human right' but yet Tim Cook bent over backwards to comply with Russia and China laws on privacy an security so his company could continue to make millions of $$$$.

Tim Cook does not care one bit about privacy because if he did he would not be dealing with Russia or China. He doesn't care, Apple does'nt care. Money talks, privacy walks and that is clear as day when it comes to Tim Cook and Apple.
 

GeoStructural

macrumors 65816
Oct 8, 2016
1,171
3,988
Colombia
I've not listened to the speech but can someone fill me in on how its different to "sideloading" on a mac instead of downloading from the Mac App Store?
It is not, it just means a huge loss of revenue and control for Apple, so they will rehash their tired “privacy” argument over and over. Craig even went as far as to trash MacOS recently to support this idea.

Apple is a greedy company that goes against its core values and stifles innovation on purpose for their own gains. They are still using Lightning port because they can charge a fee for it (MFi stamp) even thought it is just USB 2 technology released 20 years ago… this on the face of much better technology like Thunderbolt and USB C (USB 4.0) which they co-developed.
 
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sw1tcher

macrumors 603
Jan 6, 2004
5,483
19,235
I've asked a few people who are more tech-oriented about sideloading on iOS, and no one can tell me a single app they want to see that the App Store can't provide. It's like people want "control" without knowing what they'll actually control when given the choice.
Obviously, these people do not live in China or Hong Kong or a country with censorship and human rights abuses.






Editing to also say that it's not just about getting an app that's not available on the App Store. For me personally, if given the opportunity, I'd rather support the developer directly. Let's take Affinity Photo as an example. It's available for the Mac both on Apple's App Store and directly from Seif Labs. For me, I chose to get it directly from Serif Labs because there's no Apple middleman cut.
 
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jav6454

macrumors Core
Nov 14, 2007
22,303
6,257
1 Geostationary Tower Plaza
These people must not live in China or Hong Kong
Here is the thing about that. Yes, it is sad about the whole censorship, but in the end, there certain laws every company has to abide by in every country. People blast Apple due to doing business in China, but last I checked, almost every American company does business there and they all have to follow those same rules & laws.

If these people need to side load due to censorship, you have Android. Why touch the iPhone?
 

Zaft

macrumors 601
Jun 16, 2009
4,553
4,032
Brooklyn, NY
If it’s such a bad thing, than why am I able to side load on Mac OS?

Just put in a warning and be done with it. Vast majority won’t side load anyway.
 
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dguisinger

macrumors 65816
Jul 25, 2002
1,097
2,242
Have there been many lawsuits against Apple for the ability to "sideload" apps on a Mac? What about against Microsoft and people "sideloading" apps on Windows?



Oh. I see. So that's how it works. Just because you don't want or have a use for something, everyone else must also feel the same way.

The joke is on him regarding how much vetting Apple actually does of his apps.....
 
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LV426

macrumors 68000
Jan 22, 2013
1,838
2,272
I don't buy it. Sideloading on Android works just fine and hey, all major corps are still putting their apps in the PlayStore. I don't see a single reason why that should be different on iOS. Sideloading is a hassle for users, so the majority of users will stick with the AppStore therefore no "big" company is going to skip the store for a different solution.
Did you miss the Apple memo reporting that Android have the malware market all sewn up? Like 99% of malware heading in that direction.
 
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SpotOnT

macrumors 6502a
Dec 7, 2016
874
1,771
Or you can stop using free services from companies that use and sell your data.

It isn’t as simple as free vs paid. I mean Amazon mines the sht out of everything you do with them, including your Ring feed, and you pay for all of that. As far as I know, Sony and Microsoft do the same.

Tracking and data mining isn’t limited to Facebook and Google.
 
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fbr$

macrumors 6502a
Feb 6, 2020
547
1,124
I am not a fan of sideloading, mostly because it's not something many less-experienced phone users want to deal with. Now, multiple app stores that operate under a common security framework, that's a different story.

(I should emphasize "less-experienced users." We posting here on MacRumors forums aren't that crowd (in general).
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