TSMC's Arizona Plant Will Manufacture 4nm Chips Starting in 2024 at Apple's Request

[MacRumors]

TSMC's $12 billion chip plant currently under construction in Arizona will begin producing 4-nanometer chips as soon as it opens in 2024 thanks to urging from Apple and other companies, according to Bloomberg's Mark Gurman.

The plant had originally been planned to start with production of 5-nanometer chips, but with Apple and other companies increasingly looking to source components from the United States, TSMC has upgraded its plans so the facility will be able to supply more cutting-edge chips.

TSMC previously said it would make 20,000 wafers per month at the Arizona facility, although production may increase from those original plans, the people said. Apple will use about a third of the output as production gets underway.

Apple and other major tech companies rely on TSMC for their chipmaking needs, and the change means they'll be able to get more of their processors from the US. Apple Chief Executive Officer Tim Cook has previously told employees that his company plans to source chips from the Arizona plant.

The new plans are scheduled to be announced in Phoenix next Tuesday with President Joe Biden, Commerce Secretary Gina Raimondo, and Apple CEO Tim Cook expected to be in attendance, along with AMD CEO Lisa Su and Nvidia founder and CEO Jensen Huang.

In addition to the 4-nanometer production facility, TSMC will reportedly officially announce plans for a second phase involving an adjacent facility that will produce even more advanced 3-nanometer chips, a development that was revealed last week by TSMC founder Morris Chang.

Apple's latest chips are manufactured on a 5-nanometer process, and moving to more advanced processes should result in significant improvements in performance and power efficiency. Apple has been rumored to be using 4nm and 3nm processes for some of its upcoming M-series and A-series chips for use in Macs, iPads, iPhones, and other products.

Article Link: TSMC's Arizona Plant Will Manufacture 4nm Chips Starting in 2024 at Apple's Request

 

[Mr Fusion]

This is political? Uhh I guess we if we have to…

“When TSMC sends its chips, they’re not sending their best…”

If I had $12B I too would be demanding a lower nanometer chip. Another bullseye, Tim. 👍

 

[scottrichardson]

Doesn’t apple already used “4nm” for the A16 chip in the iPhone 14 Pro? Or is this Arizona 4nm a different 4nm? Like a real 4nm as opposed to a 4nm that’s actually still 5nm?

 

[Piggie]

Doesn’t apple already used “4nm” for the A16 chip in the iPhone 14 Pro? Or is this Arizona 4nm a different 4nm? Like a real 4nm as opposed to a 4nm that’s actually still 5nm?

I would hope that most people on these forums are intelligent enough to know that 4nm and 5nm are not what they would appear to honestly be, and very sadly this has become marking spin as opposed to genuine technical details.
It's a shame this happens.

Because of this marketing spin we have Intel considering renaming it's 7nm to 5nm.

Just wish companies would be accurate and honest.

 

[bLackjackj]

This is political? Uhh I guess we if we have to…

I was about to say the same. How on earth is this political at all? Are we "woke" 🤷‍♂️

 

[goobot]

Doesn’t apple already used “4nm” for the A16 chip in the iPhone 14 Pro? Or is this Arizona 4nm a different 4nm? Like a real 4nm as opposed to a 4nm that’s actually still 5nm?

This is going to be for older stuff and stuff that runs older hardware like Apple TV. I doubt they will be making top of the line chips here, at least not at first

 

[cuencap]

Love the efforts. Wonder how long US-made chips will be exported to Asia/India for assembly then be re-imported.

 

[Nozuka]

Apple might end up widening the gap between product lines, to make better use of this and to increase the difference between products.

And there are products that don't change as often. Apple Watch is still on 7nm, for example (and has been for many years). 4nm could be their next target and then they just keep it at that for a while.

Or chips like the H1/H2 for Airpods etc, that we don't really know the tech they use.

 

[A MacBook lover]

Doesn’t apple already used “4nm” for the A16 chip in the iPhone 14 Pro? Or is this Arizona 4nm a different 4nm? Like a real 4nm as opposed to a 4nm that’s actually still 5nm?

Since it's so close, it will be much fresher - possibly organic, similar to having a farm nearby.

 

[Leon Ze Professional]

I don't understand why some are negative about this? Diversification of silicon chip production has to start somewhere. It's only the beginning.

 

[nottorp]

If they decided to change process that means there was no machinery in the factory yet? As far as I understand chip making you need different ?litography machines? if you change process?

 

[AndiG]

This is a very good move by Apple and the US. Since Taiwan is threatened by China, opening new production lines in different countries is inevitable. If China attacks Taiwan, all TSMC employees could get on a plane and move to the US, leaving China naked in the rain.

 

[sinoka56]

I don't understand why some are negative about this? Diversification of silicon chip production has to start somewhere. It's only the beginning.

Rumors suggest TSMC will only manufacture it's cutting edge chips in Taiwan as a defense from invasion, so countries depend on it and will defend them, but looks like Apple is "requesting" or maybe forcing them for diversification in case Taiwan is invaded.

As expected, Apple prioritizing its business over Taiwan's defense / independence.

 

[Gudi]

If they decided to change process that means there was no machinery in the factory yet? As far as I understand chip making you need different litography machines? if you change process?

Apparently 4nm (N4) is an enhanced version of N5 technology, whereas 3nm (N3) is a totally new technology. Don't ask me about the difference between N5+ and N5P.

 

[cicalinarrot]

Nanometers are the new gigahertz/megapixels: no matter how adherent they are to reality, they tell you nothing about your phone's performance. It's pure marketing.

 

[Gudi]

A4 (45nm)
A5 (45 or 32nm)
A5X (45nm)
A6 (32nm)
A6X (32nm)
A7+M7 (28nm)
A8+M8 (20nm)
A8X (20nm)
A9 (16nm)
A9X (16FF+ nm)
A10 Fusion (16FFC nm)
A10X Fusion (10FF nm)
A11 Bionic (10nm)
A12 Bionic (7nm)
A12X/A12Z Bionic (7nm)
A13 Bionic (7nm)
A14 Bionic (5nm)
A15 Bionic (5nm)
A16 Bionic (N4 5nm)

M1 (5nm)
M1 Pro/Max/Ultra (5nm)
M2 (N5P 5nm)

If a new N4 factory is opening in 2024, enhanced 5nm technology is going to stick around for quite a while.

 

[mdriftmeyer]

Doesn’t apple already used “4nm” for the A16 chip in the iPhone 14 Pro? Or is this Arizona 4nm a different 4nm? Like a real 4nm as opposed to a 4nm that’s actually still 5nm?

No. It's 5nm (N4) process.

Apple A16 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

5nm Technology - Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company Limited

TSMC’s 5nm (N5) Fin Field-Effect Transistor (FinFET) technology successfully entered volume production in the second quarter of 2020 and experienced a strong ramp in the second half of 2020.

www.tsmc.com

TSMC’s 5nm (N5) Fin Field-Effect Transistor (FinFET) technology successfully entered volume production in the second quarter of 2020 and experienced a strong ramp in the second half of 2020.

TSMC’s N5 technology is TSMC’s second available EUV process technology, to enable our customers’ innovations for both smartphone and HPC applications. As the foundry industry’s most advanced solution with the best performance, power and area (PPA), N5 technology provides about 20% faster speed than N7 technology or about 40% power reduction. N5 technology further expands our customer product portfolio and increases our addressable markets.

In addition, TSMC plans to launch 4nm (N4) technology, an enhanced version of N5 technology. N4 provides further enhancement in performance, power and density for the next wave of N5 products. The development of N4 technology is on schedule with good progress, and volume production is expected to start in 2022.

 

[happydude]

I was about to say the same. How on earth is this political at all? Are we "woke" 🤷‍♂️

because the moment a, especially one in particular, recent president's name is uttered, facts tend to be cast aside and it automatically becomes a toxic culture war. doesn't matter who signed it, moving manufacturing back to the US is a good move for the US.

in this case - thanks Biden, who pushed for this and signed it into law.

 

[SnappleRumors]

TSMC's Arizona Plant Will Manufacture 4nm Chips Starting in 2024 at Apple's Request​

For accuracy sake:

US customers, of which Apple was one, urged TSMC to do so.

Secondly, the Bloomberg article was written by Ian King, Mark Gurman, and Debby Wu.

 

[GeoStructural]

I would hope that most people on these forums are intelligent enough to know that 4nm and 5nm are not what they would appear to honestly be, and very sadly this has become marking spin as opposed to genuine technical details.
It's a shame this happens.

Because of this marketing spin we have Intel considering renaming it's 7nm to 5nm.

Just wish companies would be accurate and honest.

For years people in these forums have been bashing Intel for chips that have essentially the same or even higher transistor densities just because of marketing names.

 

[darngooddesign]

I was about to say the same. How on earth is this political at all? Are we "woke" 🤷‍♂️

I also enjoy using words like woke incorrectly.

 

[rjohnstone]

If they decided to change process that means there was no machinery in the factory yet? As far as I understand chip making you need different ?litography machines? if you change process?

The building is still in the construction phase. They won't be installing any equipment until late next year.
I drive past it at least once a week.

 

[rjohnstone]

because the moment a, especially one in particular, recent president's name is uttered, facts tend to be cast aside and it automatically becomes a toxic culture war. doesn't matter who signed it, moving manufacturing back to the US is a good move for the US.

in this case - thanks Biden, who pushed for this and signed it into law.

TSMC bought the land and started construction long before the CHIPS law was even a thought in any politicians head.
The base infrastructure for the plant and site excavation was started in 2020.
They are building it right across the Loop 303 freeway from a major power substation.

 

[Sasparilla]

No. It's 5nm (N4) process.

Apple A16 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

5nm Technology - Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company Limited

TSMC’s 5nm (N5) Fin Field-Effect Transistor (FinFET) technology successfully entered volume production in the second quarter of 2020 and experienced a strong ramp in the second half of 2020.

www.tsmc.com

While true, the iPhone 14 Pro's SOC's use a refined 5nm process, which TMSC calls 4nm. So yeah if this starts making it in 2024, it'll be a couple of years off the top process TMSC is using.

TMSC is planning on to provide 3nm SOC's (a true change to the process tech) to Apple for the 15 Pro's next fall. But its better to have some stuff made in the U.S. even if its a few years off the process front. Guessing Apple told them they need to provide fabs outside of Taiwan or they'd go somewhere else - so Apple isn't at risk of no SOC's (and those consequences) if China invades.

 

[Bob1985]

This is a great start to alleviating the risk from China. I would not be surprised if TSMC has their best nodes immediately available in AZ at some point.