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amartinez1660

macrumors 68000
Sep 22, 2014
1,589
1,622
I still think a lot of this "regulation" business is about the fines they can collect.
Definitely, there’s never indication about what happens AFTER the fines are collected, how they are sent back to each of the “affected costumers that had to look for this cable instead of that one” or lost hair follicles because there’s only a single App Store (and only some of them, a single PlayStation store on Sony’s, or Nintendo eShop don’t get affected somehow).

This looks to me a like a way to tax: make rules (some reasonable, some bonkers), collect fines to finance the more making of rules to be able to collect more fines.

Just like parking tickets, rules accumulate, the end user is the most affected even if meaning good intentions. After first lockdowns when people started using their cars… hot pancakes the amount of ticketing that I have seen take place.
Example:
1651933020294.jpeg
 
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Jrshelby

macrumors regular
Nov 12, 2017
238
298
Buffalo, NY
We definitely have better products with apple in complete control of their software and hardware. I feel safer with apple products because of this control. I hate when giver knows better and interferes with a great business practice that has proved safe for their customer. I don’t see apple bending on this one. Why penalize customers and companies. apple has an competitive edge because they’ve earned it.
 

npmacuser5

macrumors 68000
Apr 10, 2015
1,777
2,012
Pass the price of the fine onto the EU consumers. EU needs to put more energy into actually building products than they do telling other countries how to build them. Hopefully this one step will get more countries to exit the EU.
 

twocents

macrumors 6502
Mar 31, 2016
427
2,103
California, USA
This from a govt who can't even regulate it's own inner circle of politicians to not have a party at Number 10 during a period when the rest of us were told we would be fined if we visited our own friends and families.
Oh ’they‘ are above being regulated, unlike the populace masses. Look across the pond at London Breed or Pelosi or Newsom who were caught disregarding the mandates they themselves advocated for.

disclaimer: politician’s names listed based solely on that they are prominently based from the Bay Area that iHQ is down the 270 from. Folks from both parties UK & US have flaunted public health policies, because the “elites” evidently think they live by another set of rules.
 

Philip_S

macrumors regular
Feb 6, 2020
191
102
How can one country decide to fine a company 10% of their global annual turnover?
Because companies have to either
  1. break apart into genuinely separate national entities,
  2. divest themselves of all assets and activities within countries that have such laws (including offloading their copyrights, patents, and so on),
  3. ask a friendlier government to “restore democracy”,
  4. pay the fines, or
  5. obey the law.
1 and 2 would be insane for Apple to do, even if the country was Tuvalu, and 3 can’t happen to a nuclear power, so that leaves 4 or 5, which was the desired effect.
That just ridiculous.
what if 11 countries did that?
Companies just have to limit themselves to nine crimes a year.
 

Philip_S

macrumors regular
Feb 6, 2020
191
102
i doubt this will get very far, the UK simply hasn’t got the resources to take on the big tech firms.
10% of Apple’s global turnover could pay for pretty much all the lawyers anyone could wish for, and with a sovereign currency and no moronic SGP-like limits they question is how confident they are they’ll ultimately win. Lack of resources is just a pretext for ignoring their mates’ crimes.
We can choose our search engine in our browsers. Users need to learn accountablity.
I think that’s referring to opaque sort functions and potential bias, which are much harder for the public to even detect, let alone avoid.
 

Unregistered 4U

macrumors G4
Jul 22, 2002
10,143
8,096
We definitely have better products with apple in complete control of their software and hardware. I feel safer with apple products because of this control. I hate when giver knows better and interferes with a great business practice that has proved safe for their customer. I don’t see apple bending on this one. Why penalize customers and companies. apple has an competitive edge because they’ve earned it.
We also have the potential for better FUTURE products as long as we keep letting Apple shoot themselves in the foot with their restrictive App Store. As Android has shown, there are BILLIONS of folks that have no interest in what Apple’s selling and would potentially be open to a game-changing newcomer. Give iOS the abilities of Android and Apple might be falling over themselves selling iPhones into the EU and UK in record breaking numbers.
 

Unregistered 4U

macrumors G4
Jul 22, 2002
10,143
8,096
Or raise prices in the UK to offset the risk of doing business there.
That’s a good one, too, but would likely have the same effect :) Raise the price to make it match the fees, folks in the UK stops buying phones and shareholders say it’s no longer worth packing and shipping UK specific versions with sales so low.
 

shplock

macrumors 6502a
Dec 25, 2015
846
484
Somewhere in a Galaxy far far away
This is just yet another obvious attempt by the greedy corrupt Conservative Party to grab as much cash as they can to pay for the tax breaks of their elite chums such as Akshata Murthy (wife of the U.K Chancellor of the Exchequer).
 

shplock

macrumors 6502a
Dec 25, 2015
846
484
Somewhere in a Galaxy far far away
A trade deal with the US is smoke and mirrors. The US isn’t all that interested in it from what I can see even though we have a “special relationship”.

It’s interesting reading these articles on the EU and here the UK with some people saying they should exit these markets. These are massive markets for Apple but Americans are also missing that the US government is also looking into similar regulation of big tech. If Apple exit all these markets that want to regulate them they might as well move to China as it’ll be their only major market left.

Anyway cannot say I agree with everything here but ultimately all governments want to do for the most part is turn the phone into a computer. You can install software from anywhere on MacOS / Windows. MacOS has stayed pretty malware free and if you stick to just installing from the store you should be pretty safe overall. Phones are now major computing platforms so why should they not be as open?

For the most part I think this is good and with so many major markets now looking for similar changes, Apple won’t have any choice. The writing is on the wall here and I’d bet Apple are already working on iOS updates in secret to support this. I’d not expect them to roll it out until forced but let’s see what they announce at WWDC if that contains some steps towards more opening up.
Because some people need protecting from themselves and you forget that if you were to use the iPhone as you please and install dodgy apps etc that could then put others like myself at risk if IOS were truly open.
Just look at what a nightmare mess Android is and how Google have been trying and failing for years to fix the problem.
 
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shplock

macrumors 6502a
Dec 25, 2015
846
484
Somewhere in a Galaxy far far away
How can the US sentence and imprison people for more years than anyone has ever lived?

But back to topic: Even if 11 countries did that, Apple has enough cash reserves to pay the fines.

Also, these fines are hardly ever exhausted to the legal maximum - nor do they come out of nowhere.
Regulators will usually issue a friendly reminder to change / adjust business practises first.

And there’s always the choices of leaving - or obeying the law.
Not when corrupt politicians get a taste for other people/company's money in which case even Apple will run out of cash!
 

shplock

macrumors 6502a
Dec 25, 2015
846
484
Somewhere in a Galaxy far far away
This is great news. If we have any hope of getting corporations under control, it will come from Europe. In the U.S., lawmakers are paid for by corporations and enact toothless "regulations" with small fines in the millions or tens of millions that are just like a small "fee" for screwing over consumers. If Apple was threatened with fines that could really matter, we could see more pro-consumer developments (alas, in Europe only).
Newsflash....ALL politicians are paid for by big corporations....including the U.K and EU!
 

shplock

macrumors 6502a
Dec 25, 2015
846
484
Somewhere in a Galaxy far far away
We also have the potential for better FUTURE products as long as we keep letting Apple shoot themselves in the foot with their restrictive App Store. As Android has shown, there are BILLIONS of folks that have no interest in what Apple’s selling and would potentially be open to a game-changing newcomer. Give iOS the abilities of Android and Apple might be falling over themselves selling iPhones into the EU and UK in record breaking numbers.
There are also billions of people who REGRET going to Android and the countless dodgy apps that ruin their lives.
 

planteater

Cancelled
Feb 11, 2020
892
1,680
Because some people need protecting from themselves and you forget that if you were to use the iPhone as you please and install dodgy apps etc that could then put others like myself at risk if IOS were truly open.
Just look at what a nightmare mess Android is and how Google have been trying and failing for years to fix the problem.
One thing that those that want iOS wide open fail to understand about my position, as you mentioned, it potentially harms me. If apps I want/need decide to move to an alternate store, I’d be faced with with not using them or using them and being open to the spyware that they are sure to have.

The only way I see it not harming me is if Apple were to allow users to implement full featured firewalls like macOS, so that trackers, spyware, analytics and the sort could be blocked.

But that would never happen because one thing is for sure, governments want the systems open so they can be beneficiaries of the spyware.
 

AppliedMicro

macrumors 68020
Aug 17, 2008
2,283
2,607
If apps I want/need decide to move to an alternate store, I’d be faced with with not using them
Just use other apps then.™️

You'd still have that a choice, just as I have a choice to "just use Android then", don't I?
There are apps I want and can't get on iOS. Today.
or using them and being open to the spyware that they are sure to have.
There have been and are such apps in Apple's App Store today
This will only by resolved by robust sandboxing, not by Apple withdrawing developer certificates after the fact.
The only way I see it not harming me is if Apple were to allow users to implement full featured firewalls like macOS, so that trackers, spyware, analytics and the sort could be blocked.

But that would never happen because one thing is for sure
There are very stringent privacy controls and sandboxing in iOS today.
More than on macOS, so your comparison is off.
 

AppliedMicro

macrumors 68020
Aug 17, 2008
2,283
2,607
The only way I see it not harming me is if Apple were to allow users to implement full featured firewalls like macOS, so that trackers, spyware, analytics and the sort could be blocked.
The statement is a fallacy.
Firewalls don't reliably block spyware or analytics.

As long as an app has internet connection (and many need an internet connection to work, think social networks, video streaming, food ordering or ride hailing apps), its developer can transmit personal data. And run analytics or trackers.

Sure, you may have to use your own server, and need to roll the analytics/tracking on it, rather than just quickly dropping third-party tracking/analytics software (by Google or someone else) that directly connects to third-parties. But that's really not rocket science. As opposed to blocking analytics and trackers with firewalls, which indeed is rather tricky and/or an uphill battle.
In order to "spy" on you, spyware needs access to other data on your phone (such as contacts, calendars, photos, location, etc.), i.e. to be allowed access out of its "sandbox". And that's the only somewhat reliable way to combat spyware: To prevent it from having access to sensitive data (or the internet) in the first place.

There's pretty fine-grained controls for that in iOS today.
 
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