Updating an 27 inch iMac 2017

[el.rafar]

Hello everyone! My name is Rafael Ferreira and i´m from Brazil

Last week my company autorized us to go back to a hybrid workplace and now i will home some days a week, it will be great as i can help at home with my 1 year daughter.

I was a really long time mac user, using an 2010 base model Macbook Pro, it lasted from college, 3 different jobs and outlived as my wife work computer until late last year when she bought an 2019 base model 21.5 imac. I have upgraded it with 16GB of 2666 memory and a 500GB SATA SSD from kingston (the black one with DRAM cache). It was pain and suffering opening the screen but it was really worth it.

Now i´m with a 2017 imac 27 inch mid-tier model equipped with an i5-7600k, 24GB of 2666 memory, 2TB Fusion drive (128GB NVMe + 2TB spinning drive) and a 8GB Radeon 580 and i´m really tempted to open it and upgrade everything i can.
With that i would need an i7-7700k, a samsung 980pro 1TB ssd (is the WD Black compatible? WD has better support than samsung here in Brazil) and a WD Blue 1TB Sata SSD. But here is the question..

It would make a significant difference in performance? i do mainly web based work and some large database querys locally.Doing it with everything new would cost me arround 400 usd.
Other question, with that combo (980pro + wd blue) would be better using the fusion tech or just run everything separated?

If you guys have any other suggestions or different aproaches please feel free to comment.

Thanks!

 

[Fishrrman]

If you're going to put a bigger SSD inside, there's no point in "fusing" it with the remaining drive.
Let each drive "be its own drive".

I don't think there's much else inside that's "upgrade-able".

Actually, if you want a larger SSD, the easiest way is to buy a USB3.1 gen2 external SSD (such as the Samsung t7 "shield"), and plug it into the USBc port.

That will give you read speeds up around 850MBps, possibly faster.
It's not as fast as you'd see from installing an internal drive, but doing it this way avoids any chance you might open it up... and then... break something inside.

 

[el.rafar]

If you're going to put a bigger SSD inside, there's no point in "fusing" it with the remaining drive.
Let each drive "be its own drive".

I don't think there's much else inside that's "upgrade-able".

Actually, if you want a larger SSD, the easiest way is to buy a USB3.1 gen2 external SSD (such as the Samsung t7 "shield"), and plug it into the USBc port.

That will give you read speeds up around 850MBps, possibly faster.
It's not as fast as you'd see from installing an internal drive, but doing it this way avoids any chance you might open it up... and then... break something inside.

As i wanted to clean the cooler and upgrade the CPU, changing the SSD was a oportunity. I've opened my wife 21.5, but i will not open this 27 myself... i will pay an store to do it.

My biggest doubt is if changing the processor will make a noticiable difference. it´s faster 4 cores, with HT, but i will notice it?

 

[stradify]

For working with large databases more RAM is usually the best solution
but since you already have 24GB I wonder if you're getting the 'beachball".
What's your Memory Pressure when pushing your iMac? Are you maxing out the RAM?

As an upgrade to your internal storage go with a WD Black M.2 NVME and since you want 2GB of storage get one
w/2GB as they're on sale for around $120 and forego the internal 1GB SSD. Drop the Fusion drive and don't upgrade the CPU as it won't make a significant difference with your workload.

 

[RJH_MUSIC]

The newer the model the more difficult it is to get the screen off without cracking it. If you do it yourself, use a hair dryer to heat up the glass to melt the adhesive. Samsung SSD's 2-4 TB have worked for me very well and are reliable. OWC offers a conversion bracket to mount the smaller 2.5 inch SSD drive in the 3.5 inch bay. I also use a Samsung NVME M.2 2TB in the slot on the back of the logic board. Also very reliable.

 

[stradify]

The newer the model the more difficult it is to get the screen off without cracking it. If you do it yourself, use a hair dryer to heat up the glass to melt the adhesive. Samsung SSD's 2-4 TB have worked for me very well and are reliable. OWC offers a conversion bracket to mount the smaller 2.5 inch SSD drive in the 3.5 inch bay. I also use a Samsung NVME M.2 2TB in the slot on the back of the logic board. Also very reliable.

There's been problems with the latest Samsung drives:

Samsung Pro SSD reliability questioned as longtime partner shifts to Sabrent

Custom PC-builder Puget says it's had issues with the Pro line since the last gen.

arstechnica.com

Samsung 870 EVO - Beware, certain batches prone to failure!

Certain 870 EVO 4TB and 2TB drives are affected by early failures where they develop uncorrectable errors and some data just cannot be read from them anymore. This seems to primarily affect drives produced in January/February 2021. For example, i have three 870 EVO 4TB, only one is affected (so...

www.techpowerup.com

 

[el.rafar]

For working with large databases more RAM is usually the best solution
but since you already have 24GB I wonder if you're getting the 'beachball".
What's your Memory Pressure when pushing your iMac? Are you maxing out the RAM?

As an upgrade to your internal storage go with a WD Black M.2 NVME and since you want 2GB of storage get one
w/2GB as they're on sale for around $120 and forego the internal 1GB SSD. Drop the Fusion drive and don't upgrade the CPU as it won't make a significant difference with your workload.

Tryed this today and with a typical workload + all my browser stuff open I reached 17GB with 0 compression.

I never really tough of just upgrading the SSD to two tb. Nice thought! Can save a bit here.

As for the cpu i’m still in doubt, I will have to open up everything, renewing the thermal paste, I want some cryonaut there, so… let’s go to the 7700k…

The newer the model the more difficult it is to get the screen off without cracking it. If you do it yourself, use a hair dryer to heat up the glass to melt the adhesive. Samsung SSD's 2-4 TB have worked for me very well and are reliable. OWC offers a conversion bracket to mount the smaller 2.5 inch SSD drive in the 3.5 inch bay. I also use a Samsung NVME M.2 2TB in the slot on the back of the logic board. Also very reliable.

This time i will send the iMac to a store for the upgrade. Doing the 21.5 was pain enough

There's been problems with the latest Samsung drives:

Samsung Pro SSD reliability questioned as longtime partner shifts to Sabrent

Custom PC-builder Puget says it's had issues with the Pro line since the last gen.

arstechnica.com

Samsung 870 EVO - Beware, certain batches prone to failure!

Certain 870 EVO 4TB and 2TB drives are affected by early failures where they develop uncorrectable errors and some data just cannot be read from them anymore. This seems to primarily affect drives produced in January/February 2021. For example, i have three 870 EVO 4TB, only one is affected (so...

www.techpowerup.com

I had great experiences with Samsung ssd, but the difficulty of opening the iMac because of a drive failure is driving me to de WD Black series.

 

[RJH_MUSIC]

There's been problems with the latest Samsung drives:

Samsung Pro SSD reliability questioned as longtime partner shifts to Sabrent

Custom PC-builder Puget says it's had issues with the Pro line since the last gen.

arstechnica.com

Samsung 870 EVO - Beware, certain batches prone to failure!

Certain 870 EVO 4TB and 2TB drives are affected by early failures where they develop uncorrectable errors and some data just cannot be read from them anymore. This seems to primarily affect drives produced in January/February 2021. For example, i have three 870 EVO 4TB, only one is affected (so...

www.techpowerup.com

Wow i did not know that. I never bought the pro models. I have 8 Samsung 2.5 inch ssd and 4 M.2 870 evo since 2020 and knock on wood, all have never failed-me. And all run in my music studio so they are run hard.

 

[saudor]

samsung nvme drives have issues with TRIM in monterey and later, which can cause minutes of startup delay among others. plus they have reliability issues now.

My WD_Black drives work great in macOS although it's through a hackintosh. (SN850 for the macOS drive)

 

[mikehalloran]

If you're going to put a bigger SSD inside, there's no point in "fusing" it with the remaining drive.
Let each drive "be its own drive".

I don't think there's much else inside that's "upgrade-able".

Actually, if you want a larger SSD, the easiest way is to buy a USB3.1 gen2 external SSD (such as the Samsung t7 "shield"), and plug it into the USBc port.

That will give you read speeds up around 850MBps, possibly faster.
It's not as fast as you'd see from installing an internal drive, but doing it this way avoids any chance you might open it up... and then... break something inside.

Nah… There's only one PCIe socket in these.

Toss the miniscule internal and the HDD just replace them with an NVMe 3 x4 blade. They are available up to 4TB and have a 3100MBps R/W speed when mounted on the internal bus. Although OWC will sell one with a matching pin-out, an .m2 like the Samsung 970 or Crucial P3 with a pin adapter costs hundreds less (a speaker will need to be loosened to slide the adapter in). Any tech can do the work in less than an hour. It will be a major upgrade on a 2017.

 

[mikehalloran]

samsung nvme drives have issues with TRIM in monterey and later, which can cause minutes of startup delay among others. plus they have reliability issues now.

The 990 PRO is the blade in question is a PCIe 4 x6 blade that has no business being in a 2017 iMac — yes, PCI 4 is backwards compatible with the PCI 3 x4 bus but it's wasted money.

The Crucial P3 is about the best bang for the buck at the moment if installing in a 2017 iMac. $220 for 4TB + the $16 pin adapter on Amazon.

There is no Mac that can use a 4 x6 aftermarket SSD. The Studio has a PCI 4 x6 bus but that uses a proprietary Samsung or Toshiba blade without a NAND controller onboard (controller is on the M1).

 

[jamwithryetaost]

@el.rafar I am curious
i) what OS did you upgrade to and
ii) how is the performance new CPU/ SSD? - relative to using the new OS?

 

[el.rafar]

@el.rafar I am curious
i) what OS did you upgrade to and
ii) how is the performance new CPU/ SSD? - relative to using the new OS?

So, I’m using Ventura right now. Everything works great but things don’t feel snap / instantaneous as my work dell notebook witch also has an 7th gen processor, but with HT and has a ssd only 256GB storage.

On blackmagic disk test I get 700MB/s writes and 2.2GB/s reads. I think that maybe getting everything to about 3GB/s will give that speed feeling that I want

 

[el.rafar]

Just an update to everyone.

The SSD upgrade was great. The kingstons SC3000 with the adapter worked great. Blackmagic disk test is giving me consistent 2.8GB/s reads and writes. The system is really responsive. I can really recommend this to anyone with an 2017 or 2019 iMac.

Also, changing the thermal paste to a new thermal greasly and cleaning the internal cooler fins, they were really dirty, made the temps fall 15* average on idle and stress

 

[mikehalloran]

Just an update to everyone.

The SSD upgrade was great. The kingstons SC3000 with the adapter worked great. Blackmagic disk test is giving me consistent 2.8GB/s reads and writes. The system is really responsive. I can really recommend this to anyone with an 2017 or 2019 iMac.

Also, changing the thermal paste to a new thermal greasly and cleaning the internal cooler fins, they were really dirty, made the temps fall 15* average on idle and stress

All well and good but 2800–3100GB/S is the performance that one should get out of an NVMe 3 x4 blade in the same slot.

Yes, these are backward compatible but no iMac has a PCI 4 bus. Thanks for the confirmation that the 4.0 blade is no faster, unfortunately. It would have been most welcome news if it had been as fast as in a PC with a PCI 4 bus.

Since I posted about this in February, the Crucial P3 has dropped another $20 to $199.99 on Amazon for 4TB.

 

[el.rafar]

All well and good but 2800–3100GB/S is the performance that one should get out of an NVMe 3 x4 blade in the same slot.

Yes, these are backward compatible but no iMac has a PCI 4 bus. Thanks for the confirmation that the 4.0 blade is no faster, unfortunately. It would have been most welcome news if it had been as fast as in a PC with a PCI 4 bus.

Since I posted about this in February, the Crucial P3 has dropped another $20 to $199.99 on Amazon for 4TB.

Here in Brazil crucial parts are really expensive, just checking right now, the 1TB p3 is 220 US dollars.

I’ve got the sc3000 for 140 on a sale. Yes, it is topping pcie gen3, but at least I can enjoy the really fast dram cache on the drive. Also, Kingston has great support here.

 

[mikehalloran]

I’ve got the sc3000 for 140 on a sale.

Sounds like a really good deal! Nothing wrong with buying on price if you don't take a performance hit.

BTW, I am not being sarcastic when I thank you for running your tests and posting. The manufacturers tout that NVMe 4 x4 and 4 x6 blades are faster. Although I was certain that applied only to PCs with matching busses, I had not been able to test it myself.

Also nice to know that it's no slower than a fast NVMe 3 x4 SSD in a Mac. Way to go!

 

[Nguyen Duc Hieu]

Here in Brazil crucial parts are really expensive, just checking right now, the 1TB p3 is 220 US dollars.

I’ve got the sc3000 for 140 on a sale. Yes, it is topping pcie gen3, but at least I can enjoy the really fast dram cache on the drive. Also, Kingston has great support here.

Hope you will have a peace of mind with this information below:

NO iMac or Mac mini can utilize PCIe 4.0 yet.

 

[mikehalloran]

Hope you will have a peace of mind with this information below:

"NO iMac or Mac mini can utilize PCIe 4.0 yet."

That's not quite true. The Mini M2 Pro appears to have a PCIe 4 x4 bus. Aftermarket SSDs cannot work, however, since the NAND controller is built into the ARM chip (same as the 4 x6 bus in the Studio).

Since you are quoting what I posted earlier, you should also include the rest of what I said which is that NVMe 4 is backwards compatible with PCI 3.0. This includes 4 x4 and 4 x6 NAND. My point was that the extra money spent for these faster chips is wasted in a PCIe 3 bus.

If we had any doubt, el.rafar has proved this backward compatibility to be true. The only speed penalty is that the extra performance cannot be utilized. Frankly, I had hoped to be wrong on this but the experiment is equally valid one way or the other,

​

 

[Nguyen Duc Hieu]

That's not quite true. The Mini M2 Pro appears to have a PCIe 4 x4 bus. Aftermarket SSDs cannot work, however, since the NAND controller is built into the ARM chip (same as the 4 x6 bus in the Studio).

Since you are quoting what I posted earlier, you should also include the rest of what I said which is that NVMe 4 is backwards compatible with PCI 3.0. This includes 4 x4 and 4 x6 NAND. My point was that the extra money spent for these faster chips is wasted in a PCIe 3 bus.

If we had any doubt, el.rafar has proved this backward compatibility to be true. The only speed penalty is that the extra performance cannot be utilized. Frankly, I had hoped to be wrong on this but the experiment is equally valid one way or the other,

​

That's the reason why I chose my wording as "utilize", not "workable"...
nVME 1.4 and PCIe 4.0 graphic card both work well in a PC with Intel core i CPU gen 11 or later.

 

[Frame2023]

Hello there!!
Happy to read this thread, I expected no one to upgrade a 2017 Imac in 2023. I already bought some basic parts (Tools adhesive strips, thermal sensor, opening wheel) already 3-4 years ago but delayed the open heart surgery since then.
Now I'd like to take the plunge.

My Imac ist a Retina 5k 27inch, Intel Core i5, 3.4Ghz, Model identifier 18,3.
It was the very basic model with Radeon Pro 570 and 1TB Fusion Drive.
I maxed the RAM to 64gB already after buying it.

So, just to confirm:

-A Crucial P3 nc3000 will work as as Blade SSD.
I would go for a Crucial P3 4TB M.2 PCIe Gen3 NVMe (CT4000P3SSD8).
Can anyone confirm that it works? Or should I stick with el.rafars 1tB version?

-Is the heat of a blade SSD dependent on size / storage?

-Which adapter was exactly used? A model number would be great.

-To keep some older / defunct software, I have two partitions:
Mojave (can go after the upgrade, because APFS of newer OS extremely slows down platter disks)
and Sierra 10.12.6 (has to stay, mainly because of FCP7).
So partitioning into APFS (Current OS) and HFS+ (Sierra) will work on an SSD?
(I could use a Samsung SSD 870 EVO SSD as second drive, so platter could go as well)
BTW, what a mess compared to the times when you could open your Mac without
cutting through glue... Still have a G4.
All the best and many thanks,
Frame 2023

 

[Nguyen Duc Hieu]

BTW, what a mess compared to the times when you could open your Mac without
cutting through glue... Still have a G4.

Not much of a mess, more like a risk.
I've seen several dozens iMacs with broken glasses or even damage LCD panels because of this SSD upgrade process.

 

[el.rafar]

Hello there!!
Happy to read this thread, I expected no one to upgrade a 2017 Imac in 2023. I already bought some basic parts (Tools adhesive strips, thermal sensor, opening wheel) already 3-4 years ago but delayed the open heart surgery since then.
Now I'd like to take the plunge.

My Imac ist a Retina 5k 27inch, Intel Core i5, 3.4Ghz, Model identifier 18,3.
It was the very basic model with Radeon Pro 570 and 1TB Fusion Drive.
I maxed the RAM to 64gB already after buying it.

So, just to confirm:

-A Crucial P3 nc3000 will work as as Blade SSD.
I would go for a Crucial P3 4TB M.2 PCIe Gen3 NVMe (CT4000P3SSD8).
Can anyone confirm that it works? Or should I stick with el.rafars 1tB version?

-Is the heat of a blade SSD dependent on size / storage?

-Which adapter was exactly used? A model number would be great.

-To keep some older / defunct software, I have two partitions:
Mojave (can go after the upgrade, because APFS of newer OS extremely slows down platter disks)
and Sierra 10.12.6 (has to stay, mainly because of FCP7).
So partitioning into APFS (Current OS) and HFS+ (Sierra) will work on an SSD?
(I could use a Samsung SSD 870 EVO SSD as second drive, so platter could go as well)
BTW, what a mess compared to the times when you could open your Mac without
cutting through glue... Still have a G4.
All the best and many thanks,
Frame 2023

Hello !

So, my upgrade did not finished as intended... the 7700k that I have bought used proved to be dead... so the processor upgrade was a no go.

All the rest went pretty fine... as everyone told here the ssd was overkill but price and warranty here in Brazil made it worth it. I'm pretty happy with the result.

That is almost theoretical speed of the Gen3 x4 bus and the SSD has a big DRAM Cache so no slowdowns.

As for the RAM I went 32GB of 3200Mhz A-data memory as it was cheap. Of course the processor does not support that speed, but, I "think" it is running with tight timings. I couldn't find a way to check that at MacOS but the system definitely felt snappier after going from 16GB 2666Mhz to 32GB 3200Mhz

Other housekeeping was changing all thermal past to a good one, Kryonault, make sure you have a lot and changing the motherboard battery just in case.

I will eventually look for another 7700k but for now the iMac is great!

 

[Frame2023]

Thank you, el.rafar, but I need the exact model number of the Blade SSD and exact model number of the adapter used!

 

[el.rafar]

Thank you, el.rafar, but I need the exact model number of the Blade SSD and exact model number of the adapter used!

The blade SSD is a Kingston kC3000 1TB - https://www.kingston.com/br/ssd/kc3000-nvme-m2-solid-state-drive

And the adapter is bought two of those cheap Chinese (the small ones) from eBay just in case one didn't worked.

1 - Adaptador Ssd NVMe M.2 Para Apple Macbook Air/Pro, Imac, Retina Imac 4K/5K, Mac ProAbre em janela ou guia separada

The big adapter was not recommended by the shop that I took my iMac.