USB Booting a PowerBook G4 12"

[bsdppc]

I've been installing a bunch of operating systems on my PowerBook G4 12" 1.33GHz (PowerBook6,4) lately. For [reasons] I only wanted to install said operating systems using the built-in USB2 ports — I did not want to use the DVD drive. I have experienced many, many hours of frustrating failures along the way. Eventually I realised that some USB Flash drives simply don't play nice with the PowerBook G4 12". Specifically, they aren't recognised by Open Firmware and thus are not made available as a boot device so that you can boot from them and then install an operating system onto the internal drive.

To possibly save you some time and grief, here is what worked for me, and what didn't...

Note: When testing for compatibility with Mac OS X, all USB Flash drives had an Apple Partition Map (APM) applied, with a single partition formatted to HFS+ (Journaled), which then had the installer image 'restored' to it.

The following drives were recognised by Open Firmware (i.e. the dev / ls command yielded a /usb@1b entry followed by a /disk@1 entry):

• 2GB USB2 SanDisk Cruzer Colors+ (x1)
• 2GB USB2 Verbatim Store’n’Go (x1)
• 8GB USB2 Corsair Flash Voyager (x1)
  • The only drive that performed flawlessly with Mac OS X Tiger and Leopard. No imaging issues. No booting issues. No installation issues. No need to do anything in Open Firmware whatsoever. The only drive that "just worked" for Mac OS X.
• 8GB USB2 Verbatim Store’n’Go Micro (x1)
• 8GB USB2 Verbatim Store’n’Go PinStripe (x4)
• 16GB USB3 Patriot Spark (x1)

The following drives were not recognised by Open Firmware:

• 8GB USB2 SanDisk Cruzer Facet (x2)
• 16GB USB3 Verbatim Store’n’Go Gold (x2)

Notes: The (x1, x2, etc.) figures next to each entry indicate how many different drives of that type I tested. The smaller (2GB) drives were used to install various BSD Unix operating systems.

Although it may be possible to somehow boot from a drive that isn't automatically detected by Open Firmware, drives are cheap and plentiful. I'd rather use a drive that "just works" than spend time entering fiddly commands in Open Firmware.

Even if your PowerBook G4 12" and USB Flash drive play nicely together, there is something else to be aware of: Some operating system installers simply do not work properly when run from USB.

All attempts to perform 'standard' installs of the following operating systems failed:

• Mac OS X 10.3.7 Panther (from a compatible restore disk image)
  • you end up with a 'prohibited' sign
• Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger (from a retail disk image)
  • not a boot option; you can extract the reason — "[USBdrive] is not bootable because it has no Open Firmware path" — by booting from an installer on a different (e.g. internal disk) partition and then checking the installer log

All installs of the following operating systems succeeded:

• Mac OS X 10.4.6 Tiger (from a retail disk image)
• Mac OS X 10.5.4 Leopard (from a retail disk image)
• Mac OS X 10.5.4 Leopard (single-layer DVD version; 4.7GB image)
  • you need to customise the install and omit language translations and additional printer drivers, or an error occurs — this is to be expected as those files (plus Xcode) were what was removed from the full retail disk image to bring it down to a size that could fit on a single-layer DVD

Research suggests that the cross-over point — where Mac OS X installers start working properly when run from USB Flash drives — is 10.4.3 Tiger, although I cannot confirm this.

HTH.

PS: One final (non-USB) boot gotcha for you... I'm not sure if all PowerBook G4 12" laptops have the same "SuperDrive", but mine has a Matshita UJ-825. This is actually a DVD-RW. It's not a DVD+RW or DVD±RW. So if you burn your installer image onto a DVD+R disk using a different machine, transfer it to your PowerBook G4 12", and then try boot from it, all you will get is a few seconds of grindy-grindy noises before the attempt fails and the DVD gets ejected.

 

[Macbookprodude]

If that is your only USB stick w/ Leopard, just simply go into Open Firmware and type: devalias ->Look for ud.

Then type: boot ud:,\\:tbxi - That should boot up the USB stick w/ Leopard installer. I have a Titanium 1Ghz and USB is automatically recognized as bootable when I hold down command key.

 

[bsdppc]

@Macbookprodude Thanks for the suggestion, but that doesn't work on my (perhaps any) PowerBook G4 12". Since the "problematic" USB Flash drives are not recognised by Open Firmware at all, they cannot be addressed. If they cannot be addressed then they cannot be aliased. Thus ud doesn't exist. In fact, ud doesn't even exist on USB Flash drives that are bootable (can be selected by booting with the Option key held down in the usual manner).

It goes without saying that a 15" TiBook is not the same as a 12" PowerBook G4, so what works on one doesn't necessarily work on the other.

Interestingly, all of the "problematic" drives can be used normally once the operating system has booted — so it's not like they are defective. They just can't be booted from. I suspect that the drives are "not initialising and responding fast enough" to be accepted by Open Firmware's hardware probe before the timeout expires and booting proceeds. Whether that is the case or not doesn't really matter — the problem likely could not be corrected and can easily be avoided by using a different drive.

Not all USB2 drives are equal. Not all USB3 drives are equal. Obscure incompatibilities exist. The purpose of my post was to merely document some of the ones I have discovered so that others can avoid suffering needlessly. Who knows, maybe other PB G4 12" owners could post their verified successes and failures as well?

 

[Macbookprodude]

Possibly. I wish someone could create a usb 3 PCMCIA card.. I wonder if DosDude can update onboard USB ports ? Are you using Tiger for this ?

 

[bsdppc]

@Macbookprodude I've now tested 10.3.7 Panther, 10.5.4 Leopard and 10.4 Tiger. The original post has been updated. Even if the USB Flash drive is visible in Open Firmware, I can only install 10.5.4 Leopard. So there are two factors at work: 1) Some USB Flash drives aren't recognised at all. 2) Some Mac OS X installers simply wont boot/run properly off USB Flash drives.

As Apple was abandoning the PowerPC platform and moving to Intel at the time these machines were being produced, it is understandable why they might not have allocated adequate engineering time to make this stuff work.

 

[Amethyst1]

@bsdppc - You could have tried Tiger 10.4.6. That's the newest retail SKU and has been successfully installed via USB by several members.

 

[Macbookprodude]

Odd, as my 5,9 DLSD boots USB with no issues. My quad G5 does too, either the 12 inch G4 PowerBooks firmware is preventing it, or you don’t have the correct Tiger installed, namely 10.4.6 as mentioned above. But, I will do more testing to see.
Ironic, that usb 1.1 Macs and PowerBooks can boot USB by selection option. It just shows up in the boot selector. Even, my PB G4 Pismo boots USB by holding option and selecting it there. Odd indeed.

 

[weckart]

Possibly. I wish someone could create a usb 3 PCMCIA card.. I wonder if DosDude can update onboard USB ports ? Are you using Tiger for this ?

I don't see how this is possible since PCMCIA is 16 bits and has a max throughput of 20MB/s. Even Cardbus tops out at 133MB/s, so you would still get a bottleneck on USB 3.0 although most cheap USB 3.0 flashdrives would struggle to fill its bandwidth.

Your biggest problem is getting USB 3.0 to work on PPC at all. Someone will need to write the driver for that. It only exists for Intel. Needless to say, it will stay absent from Open Firmware so no booting with USB 3.0.

 

[Macbookprodude]

I don't see how this is possible since PCMCIA is 16 bits and has a max throughput of 20MB/s. Even Cardbus tops out at 133MB/s, so you would still get a bottleneck on USB 3.0 although most cheap USB 3.0 flashdrives would struggle to fill its bandwidth.

Your biggest problem is getting USB 3.0 to work on PPC at all. Someone will need to write the driver for that. It only exists for Intel. Needless to say, it will stay absent from Open Firmware so no booting with USB 3.0.

:-( You are saying that a driver would need to be written for this.. but OF doesn't recognize it. Sounds like in addition to a driver, also OF needs to be reversed engineered to handle it.

 

[weckart]

:-( You are saying that a driver would need to be written for this.. but OF doesn't recognize it. Sounds like in addition to a driver, also OF needs to be reversed engineered to handle it.

Generic USB 3.0 support (XHCI) for OSX came in with 10.8.5 IIRR. Prior to that, you had proprietary support only from the likes of Sonnet and Caldigit. I think these were based on a Renesas chipset. The Sonnet USB 3.0 card required 10.6.8 as a bare minimum and Sonnet's driver.

As you can see, this excludes all PPC hardware. USB 3.0 ports were only added to Mac hardware in 2012 - some 7 years after the last PPC hardware was launched.

 

[B S Magnet]

Odd, as my 5,9 DLSD boots USB with no issues. My quad G5 does too, either the 12 inch G4 PowerBooks firmware is preventing it, or you don’t have the correct Tiger installed, namely 10.4.6 as mentioned above. But, I will do more testing to see.
Ironic, that usb 1.1 Macs and PowerBooks can boot USB by selection option. It just shows up in the boot selector. Even, my PB G4 Pismo boots USB by holding option and selecting it there. Odd indeed.

As the OP noted in exquisite detail, some USB drives/keys work and some do not.

Until you personally try booting to USB from several different USB drives/keys on, say, your Titanium G4, then you will not be able to know definitively whether all of the USB drives/keys out there are bootable on your Titanium, or on your aluminium G4. ?‍♀️

 

[Macbookprodude]

Do we know who makes the USB flash drive ? Vendor ?

 

[repairedCheese]

Do we know who makes the USB flash drive ? Vendor ?

As listed in the OP, yes, yes we do. Verbatim and SanDisk make drives that both do and don't work. So as @B S Magnet literally just said, the only way to know what works is to test each and every drive. Given how inconsistent it all seems, I wouldn't be surprised if flash drives with different manufacture dates, assuming you can even find that information, with the same branding have different results.

There is no simple and easy solution here. Apple implemented USB badly in Open Firmware, and there's no fixing that.

 

[Macbookprodude]

As listed in the OP, yes, yes we do. Verbatim and SanDisk make drives that both do and don't work. So as @B S Magnet literally just said, the only way to know what works is to test each and every drive. Given how inconsistent it all seems, I wouldn't be surprised if flash drives with different manufacture dates, assuming you can even find that information, with the same branding have different results.

There is no simple and easy solution here. Apple implemented USB badly in Open Firmware, and there's no fixing that.

Hell yeah they did.. They crippled it. But I will tell you most of my flash drives are sandisk and one PNY - tested them on my PB G4 Titanium - all booted fine.. Pismo G4 also tested fine, but slowwww... Since I don't have Verbatim, that is untested. It could be just a random thing, dunno. Some inconsistencies, of course exist.. but on all my machines i have never had this issue. I could test my Quad G5.. but don't feel like taking it out of the box right now.

 

[repairedCheese]

Hell yeah they did.. They crippled it. But I will tell you most of my flash drives are sandisk and one PNY - tested them on my PB G4 Titanium - all booted fine.. Pismo G4 also tested fine, but slowwww... Since I don't have Verbatim, that is untested. It could be just a random thing, dunno. Some inconsistencies, of course exist.. but on all my machines i have never had this issue. I could test my Quad G5.. but don't feel like taking it out of the box right now.

As @bsdppc indicates, of the drives that didn't work, multiples were tested. this isn't random. This isn't inconsistent. Your results don't discount theirs and saying "but it works for me" doesn't actually help here. You aren't being specific enough about what flash drives you've used. This has nothing to do with brand.

 

[AphoticD]

Thanks for the report @bsdppc. I concur there is a very much hit and miss compatibility with USB drives. I've been reporting for the past few years that USB 3.x thumb drives won't boot my PowerPC Macs and that USB 2.0 drives will. So it is good to see you've taken the theory further with mixed results across USB 2.0 and 3.x devices.

Recently, I have successfully booted a DLSD 15" G4 from a USB 3.1 drive which is not recognized by OF on my SLSD 15" or 12" G4s.

As a time saving measure moving forward, I would suggest to newcomers trying to boot from USB;

1. Insert the [candidate] USB drive (unformatted or with existing data / format)
2. Boot into OF
3. List all devices with `dev / ls` and scroll down to see if the `disk@X` device is listed under any of the `usb@X` devices in the list.
4. If the device is recognized by OF, then go ahead and spend the time to dd or Disk Utility > Restore your installer iso (Mac OS X, Linux, MorphOS or whatever)

This should take the mystery out of "WTF won't my USB installer boot!?"


Edit: Also as a side-note re: min 10.4.3 for USB boot; My USB 2.0 4GB Tiger installer is a (reduced) iso of 10.4 retail with Dev Tools removed and BadMachines edited for increased model support. This installer boots everything from my Clamshell to my DLSDs via OF. (The DLSD requires an external mouse when booted from the 10.4 installer and graphics are glitchy, but it boots).

Another fun fact: I discovered the original (867MHz) model PowerBook G4 12" can boot from USB via the Option-key multi-boot selector just like the Clamshell.

 

[bsdppc]

As a time saving measure moving forward, I would suggest to newcomers trying to boot from USB;

1. Insert the [candidate] USB drive (unformatted or with existing data / format)
2. Boot into OF
3. List all devices with `dev / ls` and scroll down to see if the `disk@X` device is listed under any of the `usb@X` devices in the list.
4. If the device is recognized by OF, then go ahead and spend the time to dd or Disk Utility > Restore your installer iso (Mac OS X, Linux, MorphOS or whatever)

This should take the mystery out of "WTF won't my USB installer boot!?"

Good advice. If a connected USB Flash drive doesn't even get a disk@X entry then I suspect further effort is futile, or demands arcane wizardry. That said, having a disk@X entry does not guarantee it will work. It may work. A disk@X entry is just the first hurdle, it would seem.

I'm not sure if the partitioning/formatting scheme matters for the purpose of Open Firmware detection. Haven't tested that. Probably should.

Speaking of which, you suggested trying 10.4.6 Tiger earlier. The 10.4.6 Tiger image I first downloaded (from Mega) was selectable and bootable but the installer either refused to run or stalled immediately upon launching. No error, just a never-ending spinner on the grey Apple logo screen, with occasional (repetitive) signs of USB Flash drive activity. It 'felt' like it was stuck in an endless loop trying to find/do something.

A different (archive.org) image is downloading now. Let's see how that goes.

 

[AphoticD]

Good advice. If a connected USB Flash drive doesn't even get a disk@X entry then I suspect further effort is futile, or demands arcane wizardry. That said, having a disk@X entry does not guarantee it will work. It may work. A disk@X entry is just the first hurdle, it would seem.

I'm not sure if the partitioning/formatting scheme matters for the purpose of Open Firmware detection. Haven't tested that. Probably should.

Speaking of which, you suggested trying 10.4.6 Tiger earlier. The 10.4.6 Tiger image I first downloaded (from Mega) was selectable and bootable but the installer either refused to run or stalled immediately upon launching. No error, just a never-ending spinner on the grey Apple logo screen, with occasional (repetitive) signs of USB Flash drive activity. It 'felt' like it was stuck in an endless loop trying to find/do something.

A different (archive.org) image is downloading now. Let's see how that goes.

Yes, there are no guarantees with compatibility here!

You can try setting verbose mode to see what is happening with the boot process.

`setenv boot-args -v` is the OF equivalent of holding command-V on a regular boot and sets verbose mode as persistent. Zapping PRAM will reset this.

I think you should be fine with the archive.org iso.

 

[bsdppc]

I think you should be fine with the archive.org iso.

I found two 10.4.6 Tigers on archive.org. One worked, one didn't. The one that didn't ended up being an x86 version. I didn't know those even existed. I thought all black DVD versions were Universal. Oh well.

Is there a forum policy regarding directly linking to (pages with) working images?

 

[Amethyst1]

The one that didn't ended up being an x86 version. I didn't know those even existed. I thought all black DVD versions were Universal.

Tiger was available for both ppc and x86 starting with 10.4.4, but as separate branches, with all black/retail discs being ppc-only. There's no universal Tiger client, only the retail Server 10.4.7 release is ppc-and-x86.

 

[atalan4]

Hello,
I have a 12-inch, 867MHz G4 Powerbook, Model 8760LL/A. A while ago it sopped working and I assumed the problem was the hard disk. So I bought a Zheino 120GB mSATA SSD with the case enclosure. It was a challenging job to disassemble and assemble this powerbook.
Now I have been trying to install with different USBs Tiger or Leopard with no success. Since accidentally I broke the clip that goes on the keyboard’s flex connector, I am doing the testing using an old external Mac keyboard.
I tried dev / ls on Open Firmware as suggested before but I am not sure how to interpret the chart (see picture attached).
I have a few of questions:
- Is it possible to install the OS with a firewire 400 external HD? Is it more reliable than USB?
- How do I know if the new SSD is functioning properly?
- Could the problem be the ram memory?

Thank you for your help.

 

[bsdppc]

I tried dev / ls on Open Firmware as suggested before but I am not sure how to interpret the chart (see picture attached).

All of your USB devices are listed together. You'll find them on the second page of your list, about three-quarters the way down.

Your first USB entry is /usb@18. That's what AphoticD and I meant when we both wrote "look for a line that says /usb@X". X is variable that is different from system to system. In this particular case, on that particular line, your value for X was 18. A little further down, there are also /usb@19 and also /usb@1a entries. The value of X changes for each device, but the format of all three lines is the same.

If a USB Flash drive has been recognised by Open Firmware, you will have a /usb@X entry and — immediately following that, on the very next line — you will have a /disk@X entry. If you do not have two lines with these formats, then your USB Flash drive has not been recognised by Open Firmware, and you will not be able to boot from it, regardless of what operating system installer you have on it.

Is it possible to install the OS with a firewire 400 external HD? Is it more reliable than USB?

Yes. You can put an installer image onto a partition of an external HDD connected via Firewire. That partition should be visible to the Startup Manager, and selectable in the normal way, when you hold down Option at startup. Other threads cover Firewire booting, if that is the way you want to go. I'm not sure what you mean by 'reliable', but with these particular PowerBooks, you are more likely to be able to boot from a Firewire HDD/SSD than you are from 'a random' USB Flash drive.

How do I know if the new SSD is functioning properly?

It will be visible as an install target from within the installer, and the install process will go smoothly.

Could the problem be the ram memory?

The ability to boot from USB has nothing to do with RAM. Memory problems usually result in strange chimes during startup, perhaps accompanied by an 'unhappy Mac' icon, or the machine will actually boot but then you will notice that System Profiler reports the computer as having less memory than you think it should have.

 

[atalan4]

All of your USB devices are listed together. You'll find them on the second page of your list, about three-quarters the way down.

Your first USB entry is /usb@18. That's what AphoticD and I meant when we both wrote "look for a line that says /usb@X". X is variable that is different from system to system. In this particular case, on that particular line, your value for X was 18. A little further down, there are also /usb@19 and also /usb@1a entries. The value of X changes for each device, but the format of all three lines is the same.

If a USB Flash drive has been recognised by Open Firmware, you will have a /usb@X entry and — immediately following that, on the very next line — you will have a /disk@X entry. If you do not have two lines with these formats, then your USB Flash drive has not been recognised by Open Firmware, and you will not be able to boot from it, regardless of what operating system installer you have on it.


Yes. You can put an installer image onto a partition of an external HDD connected via Firewire. That partition should be visible to the Startup Manager, and selectable in the normal way, when you hold down Option at startup. Other threads cover Firewire booting, if that is the way you want to go. I'm not sure what you mean by 'reliable', but with these particular PowerBooks, you are more likely to be able to boot from a Firewire HDD/SSD than you are from 'a random' USB Flash drive.


It will be visible as an install target from within the installer, and the install process will go smoothly.


The ability to boot from USB has nothing to do with RAM. Memory problems usually result in strange chimes during startup, perhaps accompanied by an 'unhappy Mac' icon, or the machine will actually boot but then you will notice that System Profiler reports the computer as having less memory than you think it should have.

Thank you for this valuable information. Since the computer doesn't seem to recognize the USB Flash drives I have, I will look for the Firewire booting theads.

 

[u47]

In my Powerbook G4, booting from USB is done by writing
a long and confusing spell, which is very inconvenient.
Now I am using booting from the CD/DVD image on hard drive.

Spoiler: more details

1. Create a hard disk partition for the DVD image.
If there is no room for the partition, decrease the size of some disk using iPartition.

2. Download the dvd image to a local disk, for example, it is bootdisk.dmg

3. Run Terminal and goto dirrectory with downloaded bootdisk.dmg image.

4. To get the partition name for the DVD image, use the command:
diskutil list.
(For example, this is the partition disk0s9)

5. Unmount the partition for DVD image. use command:
umountDisk forced disk0s9

6. Copy the DVD image to the partition with the command:
dd if=bootdisk.dmg of=/dev/disk0s9 bs=32768

7. Reboot. Hold Alt to select boot options.

8. Booting from dvd image is available! Use it.

9. When the DVD image partition becomes unnecessary, you can delete
it and add space to another partition using iPartition.

 

[kavanasc]

I found two 10.4.6 Tigers on archive.org. One worked, one didn't. The one that didn't ended up being an x86 version. I didn't know those even existed. I thought all black DVD versions were Universal. Oh well.

Is there a forum policy regarding directly linking to (pages with) working images?

oh that really helps, I was working on different ways of making a bootable usb but failed, turn out that I was using the very first release of 10.4, no wonder.....

could you PM me the link of 10.4.6 which is working for you