Water cooled vs. Air cooled

[maflynn]

I'm sure this discussion can go off the rails much like PC vs. Macs can, as people take their technology seriously

Anyways, I've been more of an air cool fan (pun intended) because you can design them to be quiet, and they're not a single point of failure. Yet with that said, i think I'm in the minority as most YTers I've seen work with, show off and down right prefer water cooled solutions. Case makers have rolled out some seriously unique and down right beautiful cases, but clearly with an eye towards using liquid coolers.

I figured it couldn't hurt to get other people thoughts and opinions.

My thoughts:
All In One:
AIOs are a sealed system which also means they have a finite life span - potentially shorter then air cooled, simply because there's no way to replace the liquid that evaporates out slowly. Plus you have to be sure to position in a way that doesn't cause the small amount of air in the system to be near the pump. Personally, I'm partial to the NZXT solution and if I were to opt for a AIO, they would be on my short list

Downsides are as mention, a single point of failure.

Custom loop solutions:
With custom loops, you can either choose hard line where you need to bend the tubing or soft. You have to supply the reservoir cooler, liquid and pump. This offers more flexibility and opportunities like cooling the GPU along with CPU.

Downsides AFAIK are higher maintenance, i.e., draining and cleaning, high skill level to implement, and high cost. that flexibility comes at a cost, literally more money

Air Cooled:
I have two favorites, the NH-D15 and the Dark Rock Pro 4. They are huge, so you have to be sure both the motherboard and case can accommodate them and I can see this being a turn off. Depending on the cooler the solution can be noisier then an water cooled. It takes a bit of work, and choosing the right case to ensure quiet operation. For me, that also means leaving some processing power on the table, in exchange for cooler running. Even so, the back of my computer belches out some hot air.

Downsides: Require work to ensure case/motherboard compatibility. Can be nosier, smaller air coolers will be less efficient, i.e., hotter and louder. Challenge in finding cases that look good and have excellent air flow. Possible issues with dust infiltration

What are everyone else's opinions?

 

[erayser]

I've been doing custom watercooling for over a decade, and the reason I chose to do it was for silent computing and overclocking/benchmarking.

I've done soft tubing builds...

and I've done hard line tubing builds...

Both seem to be the same cost (easy to go over 1k alone on wc parts)... but hard line tubing builds are more popular. Soft tubing is easier, but depending the case, it's easy to kink soft tubing.

My latest build... I went with an AIO for the CPU initially. But these new RTX 30 series cards run really hot at stock settings, so instead of converting over to a custom water loop, I bought an AIO liquid cooled shroud made for my GPU.

This dropped my temps on my GPU by 20 C. Between my AIO and my custom watercooled builds, the custom loops are more quiet than my AIO build. I had a total of 15 fans in my custom loop builds, and it was quieter than my AIO build with 8 fans. I think it's because of the RGB fans I'm using on my current system. I used Gentle Typhoon fans... which are very quiet high static pressure fans, and I ran all my rads in push/pull configurations. This configuration allowed me to lower the rpm's on all my fans.

I might buy waterblocks for my current build because I might have replace the AIO shroud on my GPU someday anyway, and they might discontinue selling the shroud by the time it fails. I still have my custom loop fittings, rads, pumps, reservoir, so all I need are the waterblocks... and a case designed for custom watercooling.

It would be really hard for me to go back to an air cooled system after going custom watercooling and AIO cooling.

 

[Queen6]

Keep it Simple, Keep it Safe rather move the PC further away than mess with water cooling, on the other hand if I could significantly benefit from water cooling I wouldn't hesitate to do so. I've mostly been on notebooks last couple of decades (work) and my observation is running in the 75C - 85C region is not an issue.

For gaming these days the requirements are TBH fairly moderate so I'd opt for air, for heavy continuous rendering where time was a factor water. There's always the hobby factor, over all for a desktop I'd rather keep it simple as practicable to meet the demands of the intended usage.

Q-6

 

[GrumpyCoder]

Water vs Air doesn't matter if done right. The biggest problem with air is airflow through the case, particularly for GPU in addition to CPU. Placement of the case is also a problem. I have the back of my case placed somewhat close to a wall, that's why Im using water and blow the heat out of the top of the case. With a free standing case, I'd use air cooling (front to back, passing the CPU cooler).

 

[maflynn]

Water vs Air doesn't matter if done right.

Yes and no, both options have their own distinctive pros and cons, but I get what you mean, at the end of the day as long as the computer is kept cool, that's all that matters.

The biggest problem with air is airflow through the case, particularly for GPU in addition to CPU

Definitely, and much of the new designs from lian-li, corsair, NZXT, etc etc are quite stunning but are more intended for water cool solutions.

 

[erayser]

Definitely, and much of the new designs from lian-li, corsair, NZXT, etc etc are quite stunning but are more intended for water cool solutions.

I like that cases are designed with both air and water cooling in mind today. When I first got into custom loops, most of us had to modify our cases... to fit 2 or 3 rads inside the case. It's a lot easier to do custom loops today than how it was 10+ years ago.

I'm using a Crystal Series 680X case currently... which is advertised as a High Airflow case. The issue with this case is it has tempered glass in the front intake panel, and on the top where the intake/exhaust fans go. I bought the case just to put an AIO for the CPU... and just aircool the GPU. This case just didn't have enough airflow, so I took the tempered glass off the front panel. Even then... my GPU would be 70 - 80c when gaming and idle in the 40's. After installing the AIO shroud on my 3090, it idles in the 20's, and games in the 60's. Junction mem temps are still in the 90's... but they say it's normal. These RTX 30 series cards run too hot... and I'm not comfortable with it. I just feel a little more at ease running them under water.

 

[mi7chy]

I have a no liquid policy near electronics but came across this that might change my mind.

 

[LeeW]

I have gone down the water cooling route in the past, don't anymore. The bottom line for temp control is that it makes little difference in the majority of cases. There are still plenty of instances where it would be useful, in particular where the ambient temp is higher.

Having said that, When I was doing my last tower build the Dark Rock Pro 4 was actually a significant amount more expensive than a decent AIO liquid cooler. And of course, many cases are geared more towards liquid.

Ultimately though, unless you have a really specific use case, it's a case of whatever you want the build to be.

 

[maflynn]

I'm using a Crystal Series 680X case currently... which is advertised as a High Airflow case. The issue with this case is it has tempered glass in the front intake panel

Yeah, I saw that case, and it looks great, except where do the fans pull the air from?

 

[erayser]

Yeah, I saw that case, and it looks great, except where do the fans pull the air from?

It has 3 pre-installed rgb 120's mounted as intakes in the front panel. It also has 2 cutouts and screw mounts for 2x 120/140 fans on the bottom for intakes pulling air to the GPU. The top panel can take 240 or 280 AIO radiator... most will exhaust case air out through the rad so they can see the rgb fans. I personally prefer pulling cooler ambient air through my rads... I don't mind not seeing the rgb.... or you can mount just intake/exhausts fans if you use an air cooler on your cpu. The tempered glass on top and front panel restricts ambient air pulling in. It's not easy to take off the front panel tempered glass... but if you want higher airflow... you pretty have to remove it.

 

[jav6454]

I'm sure this discussion can go off the rails much like PC vs. Macs can, as people take their technology seriously

[...]

What are everyone else's opinions?

Depends on your needs and budget. In my experience, the best thermal dissipation has always been traditional custom water cooling. However, that type of customization brings in an added cost.

Air coolers are cheap but to be effective they require high real estate and lots of airflow to properly work.

Now, AIOs... they are a step between traditional water cooling and air cooling; however, because they are already prebuilt you can't add more steps to the loop. Also, traditionally they only serve to cool down CPU. Adding cooling capacity comes in the form of a larger radiator.

These are my opinions and $0.02 to the subject. What would I choose? Like I said, it always depends on system needs, requirements and expected usage.

 

[kamikazeeMC]

I like the simplicity of air, though I would like to do a custom loop at least once. My last build, I bought a Corsair 900D with the intention to, but got lazy. Maybe I might custom loop my current build, eventually.

 

[Applicator]

I've decided to go AIO. To be precise: Dual AIO in plan, like erayser did.
My Ryzen 3600 is running cool and quiet (max 65°C at constant 90+% usage, barely audible), and I can't wait for GPU prices to drop back to normal and upgrade to a watercooled 3070 or 6800XT.
I just love the slim form factor, flexibility and everything looks clean and accessible.

 

[diamond.g]

I am on Team Custom Loop. Though I do appreciate a good Air Cooler. There is just someting nice about not having to worry about the temps on my reference 6900XT (AMD's stock cooler isn't that great for keeping memory temps down).

 

[maflynn]

I am on Team Custom Loop.

How often do you drain and clean it? Do you use colored liquid? Does that impact the longevity of the cooling liquid or maintenance, i.e., gums up the fittings?

 

[diamond.g]

How often do you drain and clean it? Do you use colored liquid? Does that impact the longevity of the cooling liquid or maintenance, i.e., gums up the fittings?

I have had my current loop in service since April so I have not drained it yet. I am using clear liquid specifically to reduce the change of gunk. Prior to this loop I had an air cooler because my AIO (Enermax) died on me and miraculously didn't nuke my Threadripper on it's way out.

I expect to have to drain and refill every couple of years. I am using EKWB Cryofuel premix.

 

[maflynn]

I watch JayzTwoCents builds and I'm impressed with his hard line builds. While impressed, I'm not sure a hard line build is feasible for me, but it can produce some really impressive builds.

 

[diamond.g]

I watch JayzTwoCents builds and I'm impressed with his hard line builds. While impressed, I'm not sure a hard line build is feasible for me, but it can produce some really impressive builds.

I went with soft tubing (10/13) this go around. I may do ZMT next time, but that will require I change my fittings. Hard tubing would be awesome, but it looks like a lot of work.

 

[maflynn]

died on me and miraculously didn't nuke my Threadripper on it's way out.

btw, That's my concern, specifically on AIOs but to a lesser extent custom loops. Its probably less of a concern but no matter how you slice it, the pump is a single point of failure

but it looks like a lot of work.

No question and you need a certain level of skill. I'm mildly handy, so its within the realm of possibility but...

 

[diamond.g]

btw, That's my concern, specifically on AIOs but to a lesser extent custom loops. Its probably less of a concern but no matter how you slice it, the pump is a single point of failure


No question and you need a certain level of skill. I'm mildly handy, so its within the realm of possibility but...

Yeah, my co-worker talked me into a custom loop specifically because I can replace parts that go bad without having to redo the whole thing. With my Enermax, the seal was compromised causing the AIO to burn all the fluid out of the block. I was really lucky it didn't get fluid all over my system. I check my custom loop for leaks all the time, lol, still nervous about it.

 

[erayser]

Watching Linus, it seems he looks like he just uses distilled water in his loops. I just use clear ec6 premix. Jayztwocents likes colored pre-mix. I prefer using colored tubing and use clear premix. I've never had anything gunk up in my blocks, so I find myself adding premix from evaporation once in a great while rather than draining and refilling the loop. I used 3 rads and a res... and it adds a lot of weight to the case, so if my temps are fine, and my blocks are clear... I'm not carrying that case outside to drain my loop.

As far as tubing... soft tubing is easier to work with. I've had to redo acrylic tubing to get the right bend and angle... but looks better in the end.

I might buy another AIO shroud for my GPU as a backup. It's still a cheaper solution than buying new blocks alone. At the same time, I trust my D5 Vario pump motors than my AIO pumps. I just need them to last till my next upgrade build.

 

[diamond.g]

Watching Linus, it seems he looks like he just uses distilled water in his loops. I just use clear ec6 premix. Jayztwocents likes colored pre-mix. I prefer using colored tubing and use clear premix. I've never had anything gunk up in my blocks, so I find myself adding premix from evaporation once in a great while rather than draining and refilling the loop. I used 3 rads and a res... and it adds a lot of weight to the case, so if my temps are fine, and my blocks are clear... I'm not carrying that case outside to drain my loop.

As far as tubing... soft tubing is easier to work with. I've had to redo acrylic tubing to get the right bend and angle... but looks better in the end.

I might buy another AIO shroud for my GPU as a backup. It's still a cheaper solution than buying new blocks alone. At the same time, I trust my D5 Vario pump motors than my AIO pumps. I just need them to last till my next upgrade build.

The biocide is important so you don't grow algae...

 

[poorcody]

I've been debating this myself recently. I'm trying to build a deep-learning box with a 3090 that could run at full-power 24/7 for days on end. Kind of feel like water-cooled might be the only option to be safe in such a scenario, but I am really am turned-off by the risks of leak and maintenance...

As an alternative, what about running a system on a test bench "case"? I've seen a lot of bitcoin miners do this. Will that solve excessive heat problems as long as you are still moving air with a fan? Is dust a serious problem? Curious if anyone has taken this approach.

 

[maflynn]

still nervous about it.

That's the bottom line for me.
With air cooling, its basically fire and forget. With water cooling, there's more up front costs, complexity is higher, and the risk faster is higher. Yet the coolness factor is much higher, no question. I do love the look of it. I'll probably not go the water cooling route, but I am intrigued

 

[diamond.g]

I've been debating this myself recently. I'm trying to build a deep-learning box with a 3090 that could run at full-power 24/7 for days on end. Kind of feel like water-cooled might be the only option to be safe in such a scenario, but I am really am turned-off by the risks of leak and maintenance...

As an alternative, what about running a system on a test bench "case"? I've seen a lot of bitcoin miners do this. Will that solve excessive heat problems as long as you are still moving air with a fan? Is dust a serious problem? Curious if anyone has taken this approach.

For a test bench style case you are going to want airflow on the back of the GPU, especially one that has memory on both sides of the PCB like the 3090 does. They are very temperature sensitive so if the ram gets too warm you will lose performance.