iPad Pro Went to the Apple Store for the iPad Pro, came back home with a Surface Pro

[Night Spring]

While I personally am generally fine with the smart cover, it's hard to argue against the usefulness of an integrated kickstand that can support multiple angles.

While a kickstand does have its advantages, it inevitably makes the device thicker, and probably heavier. I've always used Smart Cover / Case with my iPads since they were first introduced, and never felt I was missing out by the iPad not having a kickstand. However, I always use the iPad on my lap and never prop it up on a desk. Which shows that the iPad is optimized for tablet use, while Surface is optimized for desktop use.

 

[ZombiePete]

While a kickstand does have its advantages, it inevitably makes the device thicker, and probably heavier. I've always used Smart Cover / Case with my iPads since they were first introduced, and never felt I was missing out by the iPad not having a kickstand. However, I always use the iPad on my lap and never prop it up on a desk. Which shows that the iPad is optimized for tablet use, while Surface is optimized for desktop use.

I don't disagree with what you're saying, but I don't think a kickstand would have to add much more weight/thickness than the Smart Cover already does if engineered properly.

 

[QquegChristian]

while Surface is optimized for desktop use.

The Surface type cover can flip under the device to rest the kickstand in any position on a flat surface on your lap or in bed. Not many images show it like this.

 

[aajeevlin]

As the owner of the Surface Pro and have pretty much stop using it, I will say that Surface Pro series is a great hardware. However, Windows on tablet sucks, I won't buy another Surface Pro because of Windows. I still don't think Windows is optimized enough for tablet usage.

 

[Night Spring]

The Surface type cover can flip under the device to rest the kickstand in any position on a flat surface on your lap or in bed. Not many images show it like this.

View attachment 601808

Hmmmmm. Could work, but still uses two elements (kickstand + keyboard cover) to achieve what the iPad accomplishes with one (smart case/cover).

My point is, Apple didn't leave a kickstand off the iPad because they didn't think to make one. They decided not to make one because they thought (1) a tablet did not need one, or (2) a kickstand is a bad idea for a tablet. You might not agree with that decision, but it was a deliberate decision.

 

[Farrellcollie]

I find the surface pro more stable in my lap with its kickstand than I do the ipad pro with its smart cover.

 

[swkong626]

It works for some things pretty well; I prefer checking in on the app than I do the website, and the integration into iOS the app gives you is nice on occasion. The point, though, is that you have the choice of either on iOS (though iirc there's a FB app for Windows too; I don't know how well it works); those choices are far more limited on Windows where apps are concerned.

Are you seriously pulling out your iPad pro to check in to locations? Don't you already have a phone to do that with? Even if they can, i don't think anybody with a Surface device is using it to check into locations. While I'm not going to take anything away from the iOS store and the # of apps that are available on the iPad Pro, how many of those apps are ppl actually using on their iPPs? For example, snapchat. Many ppl seem to cite this as an example of an app that is available on the iPP and not the SP4 but do you really need to use snapchat on a huge 13" tablet?

 

[ZombiePete]

Are you seriously pulling out your iPad pro to check in to locations? Don't you already have a phone to do that with?

I was simply explaining why it's sometimes nice to be able to use the app vice the webpage; that was just one example. I wasn't even referring to it specifically on the iPP; the comment I was replying to was questioning the efficacy of FB app, period.

While I'm not going to take anything away from the iOS store and the # of apps that are available on the iPad Pro, how many of those apps are ppl actually using on their iPPs? For example, snapchat. Many ppl seem to cite this as an example of an app that is available on the iPP and not the SP4 but do you really need to use snapchat on a huge 13" tablet?

Regardless of whether people actually use the apps or not (I would venture to say, based on my own experience, that many of them do; the touch-optimization versus using the website on top of the better OS integration make apps more convenient for a lot of use-cases), the point is that with iOS there are a lot more apps to choose from than on Windows, but I can still use the website if I choose to.

With Windows, more often than not you're going to have to use the website, which means that you'll likely be more comfortable using the keyboard/mouse attachment, which means that you essentially have a touchscreen laptop. Fine, awesome if that's the experience you're after. For me, a touch-centric OS with a better app selection is a better tablet. That's all that I've been saying.

 

[blackoutz]

I feel iPad pro fans still miss the point. iPad pro may be a better tablet but what makes is distinguishable from the iPad Air the way the surface pro does? Why would people want to pay double the price for a larger iPad that can't do much more?

 

[ZombiePete]

I feel iPad pro fans still miss the point. iPad pro may be a better tablet but what makes is distinguishable from the iPad Air the way the surface pro does? Why would people want to pay double the price for a larger iPad that can't do much more?

Well, right off the bat I think it's necessary to question why what anyone wants or likes needs to have a "point"? If I like the iPP more than the iPA, what is it to you and why do you have to try and convince me that my perspective is incorrect?

Personally, I feel perfectly comfortable saying that in this case size is a big differentiator in what makes the iPP an actual productivity device versus my iPA2. I would never sit and write a Word document on my Air because the screen is small enough to make it uncomfortable for me. Multitasking is sort of wasted on a screen that size, in my experience, because neither app is getting the space it needs to really allow me to use both simultaneously. That's not true on my iPP. I am very comfortable doing the things that I did on my 13" rMBP now on my iPP, and I didn't have that same feeling with my Air.

I want a tablet first-and-foremost, not just a touchscreen laptop that replaces my MBP. I also don't want Windows, particularly on a touchscreen device. So the SP4 doesn't appeal to me; that it differentiates itself doesn't matter, because for me it does so in a manner that doesn't interest me.

So now that I've justified my purchasing motives to you, are you more satisfied that I now get "the point"?

 

[swkong626]

I was simply explaining why it's sometimes nice to be able to use the app vice the webpage; that was just one example. I wasn't even referring to it specifically on the iPP; the comment I was replying to was questioning the efficacy of FB app, period.


Regardless of whether people actually use the apps or not (I would venture to say, based on my own experience, that many of them do; the touch-optimization versus using the website on top of the better OS integration make apps more convenient for a lot of use-cases), the point is that with iOS there are a lot more apps to choose from than on Windows, but I can still use the website if I choose to.

With Windows, more often than not you're going to have to use the website, which means that you'll likely be more comfortable using the keyboard/mouse attachment, which means that you essentially have a touchscreen laptop. Fine, awesome if that's the experience you're after. For me, a touch-centric OS with a better app selection is a better tablet. That's all that I've been saying.

Using the app vs website is absolutely something to consider when using a smartphone (nobody is saying windows phones are just as usable as iOS/Android devices b/c of mobile websites) but the situation changes a lot when considering 12"+ tablets. Some things are definitely more convenient via apps but there are times full websites are much better.

For example, google hangouts. There is no windows 10 hangouts app available currently but i would argue to say that using the website version (or even desktop version) is superior to the app b/c you can view multiple conversations at the same time.

My feeling about the iPP is that it is Apple's poor response to the Surface series. The Surface Pro can do everything the iPP can do (if a developer makes an app for it) but there are so many things the Surface can do that the iPP cannot do.

Apple should have updated OSX to make it more touch-friendly and released the iPP with OSXI.

 

[ZombiePete]

My feeling about the iPP is that it is Apple's poor response to the Surface series.

I think that this is really what it boils down to; you like the Surface better so you feel the need to defend it. I'm not sure why, particularly since I didn't attack it in the first place.

The Surface Pro can do everything the iPP can do (if a developer makes an app for it)

I could make the same argument in reverse. In the end, it's silly because one is trying to be a laptop and the other is not, so the comparison gets a little thin very quickly.

Apple should have updated OSX to make it more touch-friendly and released the iPP with OSXI.

I respectfully disagree. I don't want OSX bastardized to work with a touchscreen; I don't like what it's done to Windows, and I don't want it done to the perfectly fine desktop OS that I use at home.

 

[Sanlitun]

As the owner of the Surface Pro and have pretty much stop using it, I will say that Surface Pro series is a great hardware. However, Windows on tablet sucks, I won't buy another Surface Pro because of Windows. I still don't think Windows is optimized enough for tablet usage.

This is pretty much how I feel. It's trying to use Windows while looking through a keyhole, it's just too constricted to really use. That and the battery life.

The IPP is not a productivity device either, but it is certainly much more suited for touch use. In my case I can get more of the casual things I would do with these portable devices done easier on the IPP. And for content consumption there is no contest, the IPP is the world's greatest TV.

 

[maflynn]

Hmmmmm. Could work, but still uses two elements (kickstand + keyboard cover) to achieve what the iPad accomplishes with one (smart case/cover).

My point is, Apple didn't leave a kickstand off the iPad because they didn't think to make one. They decided not to make one because they thought (1) a tablet did not need one, or (2) a kickstand is a bad idea for a tablet. You might not agree with that decision, but it was a deliberate decision.

They may have thought that smart cover folding into a stand was sufficient for most people and didn't want to mess with the beautiful lines of the iPad Pro. That's my thinking anyways.

 

[Night Spring]

They may have thought that smart cover folding into a stand was sufficient for most people and didn't want to mess with the beautiful lines of the iPad Pro. That's my thinking anyways.

Yes, well, imo, that beautiful line serves a practical purpose, makes it easier to hold the iPad any way we want. But even if you don't agree with me on that point, this reasoning still falls under "Apple thought tablets don't need a kickstand," which I mentioned in my post.

 

[whodatrr]

OK, it's finally settled...

Went back in today, because they were supposed to have a SP4 i7/16/256 with my name on it. However, after lots of soul-searching, I determined that an XPS 13 was a better fit for me. While the tablet stuff is cool, I can still effectively do much of that with the XPS13. It's small, light, and I got the one with a touch display. at the end of the day, for this specific system, I guess I am more notebook-first.

I again compared the three units: SP4, SB, and XPS 13, with the XPS just being much more practical for me. SP4 cover KB was nice, but the XPS is better. And though it might not seem like much, that extra inch of screen makes a difference. As a bonus, I get USB-C/TB3, which is where I want to start investing in peripherals and such. Plus, I can share a charger with my rMB, when traveling!!!

 

[brentsg]

I sent my SP4 back to Microsoft on Saturday. I haven't owned a more buggy piece of hardware in my life. I'm sure a lot of the issues will get ironed out, but it's shameful that these things got put into customers hands in that state. I can't imagine what the SB is like..

 

[maflynn]

Yes, well, imo, that beautiful line serves a practical purpose, makes it easier to hold the iPad any way we want. But even if you don't agree with me on that point, this reasoning still falls under "Apple thought tablets don't need a kickstand," which I mentioned in my post.

Don't get me wrong, One of the things that keeps my coming back to apple is their beautiful designs.

 

[Night Spring]

Don't get me wrong, One of the things that keeps my coming back to apple is their beautiful designs.

Okay! We agree on something!

 

[aevan]

I feel iPad pro fans still miss the point. iPad pro may be a better tablet but what makes is distinguishable from the iPad Air the way the surface pro does? Why would people want to pay double the price for a larger iPad that can't do much more?

Apple Pencil. Simple. Desktop performance and large screen is nice.

I really don't get how people fail to understand this. It is the most mobile pro-grade illustration device (No, Surface Pro isn't as good for drawing). Also, I know it's hard to believe but some people just like iPads for everyday stuff. I never had such a great browsing experince visiting art sites as I did on my iPad Pro. Same for reading magazines like ImagineFX or comics. It's amazing.

 

[Macalway]

I really like windows 10. And on a SP4 its perfect (so far...knock on wood).

But that's just me. I also haven't had the usual 'I hate Windows' issues. (you know what they are )

 

[charlituna]

I was deciding between the two and chose the surface. So only positive reviews about the iPad pro are allowed here?

not at all but your logic does come off as rather thin. It's not the drawing capabilities or that the apps you really need don't exist on iOS. apparently what gets you up is a built in kickstand. That seems like a weird reason to pick one device over another

 

[PhoneI]

A full, proper web page is delivered to you on a Surface. Sites tend to still deliver terrible "optimized" experiences to iPads.

I will take nicely designed native apps (that utilize the full capabilities of the device), over a website any day.

 

[GaspodeX]

I will take nicely designed native apps (that utilize the full capabilities of the device), over a website any day.

Not to mention that the ipad chrome app quite happily delivers 99% of the desktop version if you ask for it (some stuff doesn't work - but not on FB)

 

[whodatrr]

But a lot of the corporate stuff I do still requires a full native browser. I know my use case isn't mainstream, but iOS browsers simply don't do everything, for me. 95% of it, maybe, but I can't be without a full browser, when that 5% of mission-critical stuff posts up.

Not to mention that the ipad chrome app quite happily delivers 99% of the desktop version if you ask for it (some stuff doesn't work - but not on FB)