What do you use for both on site and off site backups?

[HobeSoundDarryl]

How to people backup their Macbooks? I backup to a network time machine share on my TrueNAS server, but occasionally backing up will break and I'll have to delete my sparsebundle file and start over. That's happened every since I started backing up to a network drive, which I started doing when I had a Synology NAS.

I'd love to use an external drive, but I would need to attach and re-attach it several times a day. macOS has a fit whenever you disconnect a USB or TB drive without click on eject and waiting for it to eject. Ain't nobody got time for that, so I stuck with network backups.

Hook up an external drive less frequently? If your data is high value and changing daily, hook it up when you go to bed and then let it backup one time while you sleep. Eject next morning and repeat that night. If you lean on TM for backups, you don't have to make it an automatic backup. Instead you can choose the menu item to manually "back up now"... which could be a last command of your Mac before you call it a night.

If data is not updating that frequently, perhaps risk a few days of it and make this a weekly thing: every X-day, hook it up to an external and backup while you sleep, eject the next morning.

Almost any TM backup will occasionally need to be recreated from scratch. Until then, you have what should be a good backup. So even though that NAS sometimes needs to recreate the backup from scratch, you have a backup for all of the rest of the time. Pair it with 1 or ideally 2 backups to HDDs too- with one stored offsite and regularly rotating with the other- and you'd have a pretty good backup system. An offsite backup is key for flood/fire/theft scenarios which could take out all backups stored in one location. If you are not leaning on only one backup, the odds in 3 all becoming corrupt and needing to be re-created at the same time must be towards astronomical.

If that laptop has a companion desktop, use a tool like Chronosync to regularly sync files to the desktop and then backup just the desktop. Since it is stationary, you can just leave a TM HDD always attached AND also have it backing up to the NAS too. Laptop could then optionally be backup "naked" but all unique data will be backed up by that desktop.

There's also docks for MBs like this one from Brydge to which you can leave a backup drive always attached. When you dock the laptop, it will backup and/or you can manually "back up now."

 

[dai-leung]

Almost any TM backup will occasionally need to be recreated from scratch.

Would you mind explain more?

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

TM sparse bundles will occasionally need to be re-created. You get a notice that the backup can't complete and that it needs to create a new backup as if it is creating one for the first time. You click "OK" and it does and then a new backup will be set up on the drive or NAS. A first backup is almost an entire backup, so it will take a long time (sometimes upwards of hours to even a day or so- you just let it do its thing to completion).

The loss when this (only occasionally) happens is that you will then only have a "right now" backup instead of many copies of slightly updated files as you've updated them in the past (so you can't go "back in time" when using that part of the TM app if you try to do that right now, because how far back you can go is only the most recent versions of all files). However, passage of new time will then create the history as you update files so that you can again go "back in time" to access older versions of evolving files.

How often is "occasionally"? For me, maybe once a year, I'll get the notice and then just let it create a new TM backup.

I don't consider this any big consequence or negative- just how TM works. Then again, I maintain several different TM backups (NAS + two HDDs) so it is highly unlikely I could lose the ability to go "back in time" in all backups at one time.

The going "back in time" benefit is only important in special cases... such as when the most recent backup is missing something that an earlier version of the same file had. The classic example: you are writing a book. Each day you add a bit to it... so each day, TM is saving an updated version of the book. At some point, you accidentally delete finished chapters 2-4 and don't notice.

Then you finish the book and want to give it one complete pass for a final edit. At this point, there might be 100 versions of the book file in the TM archive. You discover the 3 missing chapters in your final editorial pass. In TM, recent versions will also be missing those chapters unless you just deleted them today/yesterday. However, if you step back far enough in time, you will find the last version of the book file that had those missing chapters. Restore it, copy the 3 missing chapters into the finished book and now the book is made whole.

In that scenario, if TM needed to re-create the whole backup, you would lose that ability in that backup to go back and find a version of your book with those chapters. Thus, I have a few TM backups so that if I experienced a scenario like that and my primary TM backup had just been re-created, I could always access one of the others to go "back in time" to recover my lost chapters. That's not the main reason I use multiple TM backups, but it is a tangible benefit in a scenario like that one.

For many people, the biggest need of TM or CCC or SuperDuper backups is to recover from a catastrophic loss... such as their Mac is stolen, lost, destroyed, etc... so this ability to go back in time is typically a secondary benefit. However, let that author in the above scenario crash into having to potentially recreate chapters 2-4 of their book and they will certainly NOT see that benefit as secondary.

That ability to go "back in time" is also the key one in arguing for getting a good sized TM backup drive instead of- say- only enough to match the storage of what you have right now. More space for backups basically buys more historical backups. When a drive is full, it starts deleting oldest backups to create room for new ones. So if the author had very little extra storage for their TM backup, they might lose Chapters 2-4 not due to a rebuild scenario but because the versions that still had Chapters 2-4 have since been overwritten by newer backup versions.

A good general rule is at least 3X the total storage space of the Mac or all Macs to be backed up. Example: if your Mac has 1TB of SSD inside, TM drive should be at least 3TB. If you and your S.O. both have Macs to backup and they total 3TB of storage, TM drive should be at least 9TB. And the more, the better... because anything above 3X is simply buying even more time (or history) in which you can travel if you need to go back.

 

[MisterSavage]

How often is "occasionally"? For me, maybe once a year, I'll get the notice and then just let it create a new TM backup.

That's baffling because I've had multiple backup drives over a year old and I've never had this happen. I've got two active ones right now that meet that criteria.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Again, no big deal at all but it does happen. You've been lucky.

When it happens, Mac prompts user. User clicks "OK" and it re-builds a new TM backup like it does the first time. It is so quick & easy, it would be easy to forget when it does happen to someone. Just takes a few seconds to process, act and then basically ignore and all is back to normal again (all background processes).

 

[MisterSavage]

Again, no big deal at all but it does happen. You've been lucky.

When it happens, Mac prompts user. User clicks "OK" and it re-builds a new TM backup like it does the first time. It is so quick & easy, it would be easy to forget when it does happen to someone. Just takes a few seconds to process, act and then basically ignore and all is back to normal again (all background processes).

That's good. As long as it's in the background and I keep doing my thing!

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Yes, nothing to it. It's like acknowledging a text message notification. The only issue is that it takes a long time to make a new, complete backup- sometimes hours, sometimes as much as a day depending on how much needs to be backed up. But all that is in the background, so user just lets it do its thing.

 

[Antares23]

I have a 2TB USB HDD that I use to backup both my iMac and MacBook with Time Machine
And everything I really care about are in my iCloud Drive
Not such a good solution because I have to trust Apple to keep my stuff on their server (I think there was some case of user getting their files deleted on iCloud Drive without any reason)

I used to backup with Carbon Copy Cloner on older os version but I think you can't make bootable backup of your system drive with CCC since a little while
If anyone have a solution of a solution for automated bootable backup on Ventura that would be awesome.

I'm thinking about getting either a Mid 2011 Server Mac mini or a Late 2012 Server Mac mini. Since they both have Quad Core i7 and 2 SATA 6 2.5" bay. Considering I can put the mini pretty much anywhere and that it just sips power, I think it's a good option, enough for what I need

I would put 2 1TB SSD in it, put them in RAID 1 and install TrueNAS (I think it's the best choice, I'm not sure macOS would be ideal for this application)

 

[dai-leung]

TM sparse bundles will occasionally need to be re-created. You get a notice that the backup can't complete and that it needs to create a new backup as if it is creating one for the first time.

Thank you for your detailed explanation! On my TM volume, using CCC, I found that it has many snapshots. From your explanation, when the “re- recreate ” happens, all the snapshots will be gone or useless, yes?

 

[dai-leung]

If anyone have a solution of a solution for automated bootable backup on Ventura that would be awesome.

Does the following method work?

4.) Run asr like this example, insert x, y and sourcevolumename accordingly.
asr restore --source /dev/diskxs2 -- target /dev/disky --sourcevolumename "Monterey"

OCLP can't boot Mac in recovery mode

you can always boot a createinstallmedia stick with Monterey. If you have plenty of disk space you can use a 20 GB HFSplus partition for it. To create bootable backups, btw. I had success with OC and using the asr restore command line tool.

forums.macrumors.com

 

[Antares23]

Does the following method work?

OCLP can't boot Mac in recovery mode

you can always boot a createinstallmedia stick with Monterey. If you have plenty of disk space you can use a 20 GB HFSplus partition for it. To create bootable backups, btw. I had success with OC and using the asr restore command line tool.

forums.macrumors.com

Nope, it give me an error message.
~ % asr restore --source /dev/disk3 --target /dev/disk4 --sourcevolumename "Macintosh SSD" Validating target...done Validating source...done Couldn’t set up partitions on target device - operation AddAPFSVolumeToContainer, line #5400 - erreur 49231

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Thank you for your detailed explanation! On my TM volume, using CCC, I found that it has many snapshots. From your explanation, when the “re- recreate ” happens, all the snapshots will be gone or useless, yes?

I don't know CCC as well as I know TM but probably. If TM, it is essentially like a fresh backup again that will then start piling up "new snapshots" of files as you evolve them from that day forward.

Again, this is not a "big worry" thing. It only happens every once in a while... maybe once a year for me in heavy use (and thus hourly backups around heavy use) of Mac by me. If it gives you some concern, involve at least 2 drives for backup so that one will likely have more history than the other when this occasionally happens. Or do like me and have THREE drives involved, with one always offsite.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

I have a 2TB USB HDD that I use to backup both my iMac and MacBook with Time Machine
And everything I really care about are in my iCloud Drive
Not such a good solution because I have to trust Apple to keep my stuff on their server (I think there was some case of user getting their files deleted on iCloud Drive without any reason)

I used to backup with Carbon Copy Cloner on older os version but I think you can't make bootable backup of your system drive with CCC since a little while
If anyone have a solution of a solution for automated bootable backup on Ventura that would be awesome.

I'm thinking about getting either a Mid 2011 Server Mac mini or a Late 2012 Server Mac mini. Since they both have Quad Core i7 and 2 SATA 6 2.5" bay. Considering I can put the mini pretty much anywhere and that it just sips power, I think it's a good option, enough for what I need

I would put 2 1TB SSD in it, put them in RAID 1 and install TrueNAS (I think it's the best choice, I'm not sure macOS would be ideal for this application)

If you want to sink money into it, I'd recommend Synology and HDDs instead of SSDs... and I'd get HDDs of SIZE so you have plenty of capacity for going "back in time" (see advice back in the lower part of #78). Synology has a TM-supporting tool that makes it work very well. I've been using it myself for about 10 years. Bonus: with Synology's own variation of RAID, you can grow storage by inserting new drives or replacing existing drives with bigger ones and not have to rebuild the RAID.

Synology can do many things beyond only this one thing too... such as being your own Cloud totally within your control for $0/month subscription, backup a PC, share storage between multiple users like Dropbox, host a website, email server, etc. One huge use for me as an Apple person beyond TM is as a whole home DVR with the great Channels app on AppleTV and iDevices.

 

[gilby101]

iCloud provides immediate backups for application data: Numbers, Pages, Keynote, anything I save in the documents folder and whatever I stick in the iCloud folder ( for example I have scanned several very old school D&D modules and have them saved in iCloud ).

Not what I call backup. I call that immediate synchronisation. There is no history - so deleted files and old versions of modified files disappear. Also completely destroyed in the unlikely event of ransomeware attack.

 

[gilby101]

If that laptop has a companion desktop, use a tool like Chronosync to regularly sync files to the desktop and then backup just the desktop. Since it is stationary, you can just leave a TM HDD always attached AND also have it backing up to the NAS too. Laptop could then optionally be backup "naked" but all unique data will be backed up by that desktop.

That is what I do. Confident I can recover lost files if required.

 

[gilby101]

I used to backup with Carbon Copy Cloner on older os version but I think you can't make bootable backup of your system drive with CCC since a little while
If anyone have a solution of a solution for automated bootable backup on Ventura that would be awesome.

You can make "legacy" bootable backups with CCC, but these are mostly one off backups with little scope for incremantal snapshots.

The use case for bootable backups has got smaller over the years. This is particularly true with Mx Apple Silicon Macs where the Mac can't boot from any disk with a faulty internal disk.

Fast recovery with a freshly created macOS is the method we are all encouraged to use. So TM/CCC of internal disk to an SSD.

 

[elvisimprsntr]

On site: Time Machine -> TrueNAS SCALE (SMB)
Off site: TrueNAS SCALE -> Google Drive (encrypted in transit and at rest)

 

[dai-leung]

Nope, it give me an error message.

CCC has a writeup on this topic if you are interested.

Creating legacy bootable copies of macOS (Big Sur and later) | Carbon Copy Cloner | Bombich Software

bombich.com

also see @gilby101 post above.

 

[dai-leung]

CCC copy function question.

I created an OCLP installer for Sonoma. When the mac starts and I press option key, it shows 2 items, an EFI with the open core logo, and "install Sonoma". I wanted to create another copy of the installer. So I used CCC to copy the installer to another drive. I checked the size of file, the original installer and the copy have exactly the same size. However, when I "option" the copied installer, only "install Sonoma" showed up that is the EFI boot was missing. I tried 5 times to different disks, results were the same.

It is odd because if I use CCC to copy the CCC backup drive to another drive, it does boot except I lose all the snapshots.

If any knowledgeable members here could explain what is the reason for this failure, I would appreciate it.

 

[HDFan]

Cloud provides immediate backups

iCloud is not a backup service, as gilby101 notes below.

May I ask what gets backup’ed in “personal backup”?

Anything I want. That's just the name of the product.

Not what I call backup. I call that immediate synchronisation. There is no history - so deleted files and old versions of modified files disappear.

 

[960design]

Not what I call backup. I call that immediate synchronisation.

You certainly are not wrong. It is not the backups we used back in the early 2000s, that proved to be obsolete one month after saving to tape and shipping off site. Hard lesson, many times.

There is no history - so deleted files and old versions of modified files disappear.

File > Revert To > Browse all versions
Git provides historical versioning

Also completely destroyed in the unlikely event of ransomeware attack.

Again not wrong. I would say equally likely to hurricane, fire, theft, but this is true of any other backup as well. Theft of the backup solution or access to it will render it useless.

See my earlier post for how I backup:

What do you use for both on site and off site backups?

rsync script to local server (delta updates for the l33t winz) github(s) for source code icloud for personal x1: dev system x2: rsync to local/network server ( could go to remote, but do not currently ) x3: github(s) for source code, cloud for personal

forums.macrumors.com

My thought process, as posed by the question, on how do you backup your mac:
99% of all users do not need triple/quad redundancy backups, 0.99% of those that do already know how.
60% of the time it works every time ( the statistics are completely made up, just like my backups).

I often see pundits throwing tons of complex backup solutions that are meaningless in the real world. I literally sit next to racks of mid dollar servers that backup data to tapes. This system certainly needs a different backup solution than a Macbook. Onsite backups (NAS) are the greatest threat to user backups ( single location loss ).

 

[gigapocket1]

2 synologys. One at my house, one at a family members. Use synology drive to sync all important folders (Desktop, Documents, Photos, etc) between multiple computers. similar to iCloud Drive would do.
Then I have that synology share synced to moms..
I do use Time Machine backups. Only locally to a different network share on my nas that’s not backed up off site.
I like this approach because I can really get up and going with what I need on a new computer pretty quickly. Download synology drive. Create multiple syncs for my folders…
Sign into iCloud. Also, each computer I use, everything is basically the same. Files are in the same place, etc. Love It

 

[Makisupa Policeman]

I use Time Machine and Carbon Copy Cloner to two different drives for local backups because I don’t trust TM 100% as well integrated as it is into MacOS. The lack of checksumming capabilities makes it less robust than CCC because errors can and do happen.

Offsite I use Backblaze with the 1-year version history enabled. Worth the extra $1 per month to roll back your backup imo.

 

[jagooch]

Hook up an external drive less frequently? If your data is high value and changing daily, hook it up when you go to bed and then let it backup one time while you sleep. Eject next morning and repeat that night. If you lean on TM for backups, you don't have to make it an automatic backup. Instead you can choose the menu item to manually "back up now"... which could be a last command of your Mac before you call it a night.

If data is not updating that frequently, perhaps risk a few days of it and make this a weekly thing: every X-day, hook it up to an external and backup while you sleep, eject the next morning.

Almost any TM backup will occasionally need to be recreated from scratch. Until then, you have what should be a good backup. So even though that NAS sometimes needs to recreate the backup from scratch, you have a backup for all of the rest of the time. Pair it with 1 or ideally 2 backups to HDDs too- with one stored offsite and regularly rotating with the other- and you'd have a pretty good backup system. An offsite backup is key for flood/fire/theft scenarios which could take out all backups stored in one location. If you are not leaning on only one backup, the odds in 3 all becoming corrupt and needing to be re-created at the same time must be towards astronomical.

If that laptop has a companion desktop, use a tool like Chronosync to regularly sync files to the desktop and then backup just the desktop. Since it is stationary, you can just leave a TM HDD always attached AND also have it backing up to the NAS too. Laptop could then optionally be backup "naked" but all unique data will be backed up by that desktop.

There's also docks for MBs like this one from Brydge to which you can leave a backup drive always attached. When you dock the laptop, it will backup and/or you can manually "back up now."

That’s way too much work. Backups should be easy to set up and then forget about. People have other things to do with their time.

 

[MisterSavage]

That’s way too much work. Backups should be easy to set up and then forget about. People have other things to do with their time.

That's what my online backup with Backblaze is for. It's not a big deal for me to connect an external drive once in a while.