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FeliApple

macrumors 68040
Apr 8, 2015
3,549
1,995
Ehm, the problem is actually the opposite, I know very well how OS’s and software works - It’s my job, and has been for 30 years. And while I'd love to say you are right it’s just more complicated than that. Of course new features, API’s and functions requires more ressources, and as such one can resonably expect slower performance with each new major release. The problem is that the software written today - is created in VERY inefficient high level code and after compiling it, it uses absurd amounts of ressources compared to what it could be using, if written 100% optimally. I'd wager that if IOS12 and apps was written 100% optimally it would probably be at generally 3 - 5 times faster and probably use about one fifth of the memory. The problem is that writing it like this (and in machinelevel code for 100% optimization) would be impossible. It would probably require a hundred or a thousand times more manpower, and would never reach the marked in a timely fashion. So what they do is make a tradeoff that's also very good for business. They optimize very little which speeds up development but unfortunately requires you to buy a phone every 2 or 3 years to have good performance due to added software bloat.
The major gripe with this approach is that today we are at a point where optimizations to make the OS runs VERY good on fx. iphone 6 and 6s would be comparatively easy, but the business incentive is not there - so it's not being done. We are actually so far down the "bloat" code path now that it's being used actively in "slowing down" older devices to make you purchase a new device (planned obsolecense).
What we need is a little more environmental responsibility from these manufactureres so we do not use up all of earths ressources to produce new phones and computers to run new and higher level code, but instead use the hardware already produced much more efficiently. But there is no money and business to made from doing that...... So we just continue doing what we always did and destroy the earth to make the top 1% people even more insanely rich

Just to make one thing clear - this is VERY far from apple fault alone - actually the OS is by far the most optimized codestack on your phone. The problem is very much with the app developers as well as they use insane amounts of memory in inefficient code and that forces the OS to start making "unhealthy" performance decisions to free up memory. Probably the best example I have seen on this issue is the Slack client for Windows. It's a simple chat/notification client, but it easily uses 800Mb to 1Gb+ memory to startup. If written properly and optimized I'd wager it could work perfectly with less than 20MB of memory. That's a 40 to 50x bloat on ressources just because they can reuse code across platforms and spare expenses on optimizing the code.
Hence why, the only solution available for end users is not to update and tolerate the disadvantages. So far, that has worked too well for me; therefore, I intend to not only maintain old iOS versions, but also recommend people not to update. It's the only way.
People might not tolerate the disadvantages, but that doesn't mean my advice is awful, and/or harmful.
 

nikusak

macrumors regular
Feb 11, 2014
206
614
Your iPhone 6 is slow compared to XR simply because it’s slow and old hardware by today’s standards.

XR CPU is 3,5 times faster in single core Geekbench and nearly 5 times faster in multicore. That kind of performance gain in just four years is pretty awesome. iPhone 6 is like a laptop from 2005 running Windows 10. No wonder it’s not blazingly fast with the latest SW.

There is no planned obsolescence going on.

But surely in general new features have higher priority than optimising performance for four year old devices with what must be close to single digit user base by now. Although iOS 12 did address performance on older devices. I’m assuming the CPU performance gains will not be as great in the future, so the current devices are likely to perform better in comparison in the future.

Why would Apple bother to support their devices for 5-6 years with SW updates it they want to obsolete their devices? It would be much easier to stop releasing updates after two years. People will be then forced to update when Instagram or their banking apps or whatever requires the latest iOS which isn’t available anymore.

My second phone is an iPhone 6s from 2015 with a brand new battery and the latest iOS. It runs amazingly well. I could easily use it as my main phone for say another two years, bringing the total to five years. Excellent value. In five years you need to buy 2-3 Android devices if you want to run the latest OS.

Finally, please do not follow the utterly insane advice given here i.e. “never update iOS beyond the version it came with”.
 

FeliApple

macrumors 68040
Apr 8, 2015
3,549
1,995
Your iPhone 6 is slow compared to XR simply because it’s slow and old hardware by today’s standards.

XR CPU is 3,5 times faster in single core Geekbench and nearly 5 times faster in multicore. That kind of performance gain in just four years is pretty awesome. iPhone 6 is like a laptop from 2005 running Windows 10. No wonder it’s not blazingly fast with the latest SW.

There is no planned obsolescence going on.

But surely in general new features have higher priority than optimising performance for four year old devices with what must be close to single digit user base by now. Although iOS 12 did address performance on older devices. I’m assuming the CPU performance gains will not be as great in the future, so the current devices are likely to perform better in comparison in the future.

Why would Apple bother to support their devices for 5-6 years with SW updates it they want to obsolete their devices? It would be much easier to stop releasing updates after two years. People will be then forced to update when Instagram or their banking apps or whatever requires the latest iOS which isn’t available anymore.

My second phone is an iPhone 6s from 2015 with a brand new battery and the latest iOS. It runs amazingly well. I could easily use it as my main phone for say another two years, bringing the total to five years. Excellent value. In five years you need to buy 2-3 Android devices if you want to run the latest OS.

Finally, please do not follow the utterly insane advice given here i.e. “never update iOS beyond the version it came with”.
Apple surely has reasons not to optimise for older devices. Therefore, all we can do is not update. The phone might be old; yet, it has the capability to be fast. How? Leave it on iOS 8. That would make it fast, years later. App support might be limited, but it will surely be a pleasure to use.
New devices are faster and can do more. I'm not putting that into question. Older devices can be "equally as fast" (for all intents and purposes, the difference is only minimal) but they might do a little less, rather than being on the same iOS version, with a battery life of three hours, and apps crashing left and right because the iOS version supports them but the hardware is bogged down by the iOS version.
 

Spoon!

macrumors 6502
Dec 9, 2018
256
391
Apple surely has reasons not to optimise for older devices. Therefore, all we can do is not update. The phone might be old; yet, it has the capability to be fast. How? Leave it on iOS 8. That would make it fast, years later. App support might be limited, but it will surely be a pleasure to use.
New devices are faster and can do more. I'm not putting that into question. Older devices can be "equally as fast" (for all intents and purposes, the difference is only minimal) but they might do a little less, rather than being on the same iOS version, with a battery life of three hours, and apps crashing left and right because the iOS version supports them but the hardware is bogged down by the iOS version.
Not sure what older devices you are referring to, but every single device that supports iOS 12 is fast on iOS 12.
 
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nikusak

macrumors regular
Feb 11, 2014
206
614
Battery life on this 6s running iOS 12 is as good as it ever was (new battery) and apps are not crashing left and right.
 

LoveToMacRumors

macrumors 68030
Feb 15, 2015
2,582
2,524
Canada
I just upgraded my iPhone 6 to iPhone XR. It is mainly due to the long loading time of iPhone 6. It was never a problem at the beginning. But since Oct this year, some apps would start to quit in the middle of operation. Then I need restart my iPhone to make everything work again. The only reason I could think of is due to limited resources on my phone. I am thinking why my ip6 was slowed down so much over years.
There was battery gate last year, so I took the chance to add in a new battery. I don't see other wearing on the hardware. Then I have iOS 12 and apps left. In comparison to a 5yr old OS, I think iOS 12 requires more resources to run logically, but I don't know if it can burden ip6 so much. Then I think maybe the lag is due to the new app updates, which make the apps more resource consuming over the years.
I am thinking if I should disable OS and app autoupdate to preserve my new XR in the current state. For an expensive phone like this, I would prefer using it for a long time like 5 yrs. I still think the screen and body of my ip6 is in a pristine state. I feel regretful to replace it because of the various updates I installed over years.
shoud've stayed on iOS 10. I have an iPhone 6 on iOS 10, still works great
 

FeliApple

macrumors 68040
Apr 8, 2015
3,549
1,995
Not sure what older devices you are referring to, but every single device that supports iOS 12 is fast on iOS 12.
Every 32-bit device, the iPhone 5s, and the 6 regarding performance, and the iPhone 7 and earlier regarding battery life.
 

Spoon!

macrumors 6502
Dec 9, 2018
256
391
Every 32-bit device, the iPhone 5s, and the 6 regarding performance, and the iPhone 7 and earlier regarding battery life.
The 5S and 6 are fast on iOS 12. The battery life issue was addressed in iOS 12 as well as the battery replacement program Apple did. So I’m not sure what you’re trying to say.
 

Knight3

Suspended
Oct 19, 2018
280
272
Ehm, the problem is actually the opposite, I know very well how OS’s and software works - It’s my job, and has been for 30 years. And while I'd love to say you are right it’s just more complicated than that. Of course new features, API’s and functions requires more ressources, and as such one can resonably expect slower performance with each new major release. The problem is that the software written today - is created in VERY inefficient high level code and after compiling it, it uses absurd amounts of ressources compared to what it could be using, if written 100% optimally. I'd wager that if IOS12 and apps was written 100% optimally it would probably be at generally 3 - 5 times faster and probably use about one fifth of the memory. The problem is that writing it like this (and in machinelevel code for 100% optimization) would be impossible. It would probably require a hundred or a thousand times more manpower, and would never reach the marked in a timely fashion. So what they do is make a tradeoff that's also very good for business. They optimize very little which speeds up development but unfortunately requires you to buy a phone every 2 or 3 years to have good performance due to added software bloat.
The major gripe with this approach is that today we are at a point where optimizations to make the OS runs VERY good on fx. iphone 6 and 6s would be comparatively easy, but the business incentive is not there - so it's not being done. We are actually so far down the "bloat" code path now that it's being used actively in "slowing down" older devices to make you purchase a new device (planned obsolecense).
What we need is a little more environmental responsibility from these manufactureres so we do not use up all of earths ressources to produce new phones and computers to run new and higher level code, but instead use the hardware already produced much more efficiently. But there is no money and business to made from doing that...... So we just continue doing what we always did and destroy the earth to make the top 1% people even more insanely rich

Just to make one thing clear - this is VERY far from apple fault alone - actually the OS is by far the most optimized codestack on your phone. The problem is very much with the app developers as well as they use insane amounts of memory in inefficient code and that forces the OS to start making "unhealthy" performance decisions to free up memory. Probably the best example I have seen on this issue is the Slack client for Windows. It's a simple chat/notification client, but it easily uses 800Mb to 1Gb+ memory to startup. If written properly and optimized I'd wager it could work perfectly with less than 20MB of memory. That's a 40 to 50x bloat on ressources just because they can reuse code across platforms and spare expenses on optimizing the code.

What you're saying requires a ground-up writing of the code every time they need to release an update and for every device which would be practically impossible thing to do. I'm not saying it's completely impossible to make it run on the older devices but that with their time and resource limitations the optimization is impossible. And then there's the business aspect like you said.
 
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FeliApple

macrumors 68040
Apr 8, 2015
3,549
1,995
The 5S and 6 are fast on iOS 12. The battery life issue was addressed in iOS 12 as well as the battery replacement program Apple did. So I’m not sure what you’re trying to say.
The battery life issue is far from solved. I heard and read something different regarding iOS 12 on the 5s and the 6, but I might be wrong.
 

Spoon!

macrumors 6502
Dec 9, 2018
256
391
The battery life issue is far from solved. I heard and read something different regarding iOS 12 on the 5s and the 6, but I might be wrong.
I have a 5S as a backup phone on iOS 12 and it’s fine. The battery life issue I was referring to was gimped performance on iOS 11 that they addressed in iOS 12. Sometimes a battery replacement is the only fix if the battery is bad, so it’s not entirely software, but Apple did get caught red-handed throttling phones, so it probably wouldn’t be good for them to do that again.
 

mrochester

macrumors 601
Feb 8, 2009
4,628
2,541
I have a 5S as a backup phone on iOS 12 and it’s fine. The battery life issue I was referring to was gimped performance on iOS 11 that they addressed in iOS 12. Sometimes a battery replacement is the only fix if the battery is bad, so it’s not entirely software, but Apple did get caught red-handed throttling phones, so it probably wouldn’t be good for them to do that again.

If you’re battery is bad the throttling still happens.
 

w_aldo

macrumors regular
Sep 18, 2018
195
188
Stockton-on-Tees, UK
Planned obsolecense from Apple’s part. They slowly make the OS heavier and heavier to criple performance and make you buy a new phone. Even with their fingers caught in the cookie jar on the battery issue they only made temporary band aids. Take IOS12 fx. Lightening fast at release because they needed the publicity from “making amends” and giving your device it’s performance back. But now at 12.1.2 it has already slowed down the iPhone 8 to IOS 11.4 speed again. So it was a very temporary “fix”.
The only question is: Is the slowdown built in from scratch in the OS based on timers/ages of the phone, or do they slow the OS down with each small release. I think it’s the former as they would otherwise be caught right away with performance comparisons. Also, the former will make every phone “age” the same so you cannot avoid it by not installing updates.

This is such a ridiculous conspiracy...

I had an iPhone 6s Plus for 3 years, running iOS 12 it was as fast as it was when it was new.

I also have an iPad Air 2 which is over 4 years old, it runs iOS 12 without any slowdowns at all. It holds up against the iPad 2018 very well. There is no way this, or any other device is intentionally artificially crippled.

Any devices with less than 2GB of RAM will struggle. That’s why there’s such a difference in usability with the iPhone 6s/iPad Air 2 and higher. It’s 2019 now, you can’t really expect 1GB to suffice.
 

Spoon!

macrumors 6502
Dec 9, 2018
256
391
If you’re battery is bad the throttling still happens.
You can disable throttling in iOS 12. You can turn throttling on if your battery is causing erratic behavior. Or you can get the battery replaced.
 

now i see it

macrumors G4
Jan 2, 2002
10,694
22,446
There's only one reason why Apple never allows you to downgrade to a previous version of iOS after a couple weeks. And we all know what the reason is.

THAT EXPLAINS IT ALL
 

C DM

macrumors Sandy Bridge
Oct 17, 2011
51,392
19,459
There's only one reason why Apple never allows you to downgrade to a previous version of iOS after a couple weeks. And we all know what the reason is.

THAT EXPLAINS IT ALL
There can't be more potential reasons? How do we know what it is?
 

C DM

macrumors Sandy Bridge
Oct 17, 2011
51,392
19,459
My iPhone 6 Plus is painfully slow on iOS 12. Even after fresh install, go figure.
Unfortunately 6 Plus was fairly underpowered from the start. Have you checked to see how your battery is and if performance management has been enabled perhaps?
 

hrl

macrumors member
Feb 8, 2009
80
13
Pacific Northwest
I did check the battery and the setting. This is actually a replacement unit (refurbished), 6 month old from Apple Store due to a speck inside the camera lens.
 

Knowlege Bomb

macrumors G4
Feb 14, 2008
10,199
8,833
US
There's only one reason why Apple never allows you to downgrade to a previous version of iOS after a couple weeks. And we all know what the reason is.

THAT EXPLAINS IT ALL
Speaking for the masses is always a mistake.

Care to fill me in on what we all know?
 

FeliApple

macrumors 68040
Apr 8, 2015
3,549
1,995
Speaking for the masses is always a mistake.

Care to fill me in on what we all know?
I would assume it is due to security, but there might be - and we are speculating because we certainly don't know - an upgrading reason behind it: if devices can't be fixed - as iOS updates cripple devices - by not allowing downgrades they might force people who want performance and battery life to buy new devices.
If Apple is so confident that people will update permanently even if given the chance to downgrade, then go ahead and test it. Their resolute reluctance to allow that makes me doubt a little. They surely profit from it. Even if they don't do it on purpose. The end result - and its unintended (let's assume) consequences - are abundantly clear.
[doublepost=1546967347][/doublepost]
I did check the battery and the setting. This is actually a replacement unit (refurbished), 6 month old from Apple Store due to a speck inside the camera lens.
I'm sorry to tell you this, but there's no solution. Don't update your nest phone and you'll be fine.
 

Knowlege Bomb

macrumors G4
Feb 14, 2008
10,199
8,833
US
I would assume it is due to security, but there might be - and we are speculating because we certainly don't know - an upgrading reason behind it: if devices can't be fixed - as iOS updates cripple devices - by not allowing downgrades they might force people who want performance and battery life to buy new devices.
If Apple is so confident that people will update permanently even if given the chance to downgrade, then go ahead and test it. Their resolute reluctance to allow that makes me doubt a little. They surely profit from it. Even if they don't do it on purpose. The end result - and its unintended (let's assume) consequences - are abundantly clear.
Yes, security is the main reason and since they're able to say it's for the good of the consumers privacy they're able to get away with it. As has been said, adding new code/features is going to make the OS heavier, full stop.

It's probably not a popular opinion but I would rather they develop code to make the newer devices as good as they can be. I tend to upgrade every year so "planned obsolescence" means nothing to me.
 

nikusak

macrumors regular
Feb 11, 2014
206
614
There's only one reason why Apple never allows you to downgrade to a previous version of iOS after a couple weeks. And we all know what the reason is.
Yes, we all know what the reason is:

Providing a secure platform for customers and providing as homogenous platform as possible for application developers.

It’s not really any more complicated.

Seriously, how anyone can think that Apple wants to make their customers angry on purpose? Any company’s most important job is to preserve customers.
 
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