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RedTheReader

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Nov 18, 2019
503
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So, about 2 years ago, when I tried the Razer Blade 14 in 2021, I noticed that something was off about its color saturation, most evident in its rendering of skin tones. I posted about it here and dismissed it as a one-off problem with that particular model's color accuracy, despite reviewers measuring it as perfectly excellent and choosing it as a creative machine for that reason. You can judge for yourself with it next to my 2020 13" MacBook Pro:

tempImagel6VVbq.png

Unfortunately, fast forward 2 years later and as I make another attempt to find a Windows machine that I like enough to ween myself off of Apple's hardware, I encounter the same problem. Bellow's my screenshot (not that kind, but I think I can still call it that, no?) of the 2022 Asus Zephyrus G14 next to the 2021 14" MacBook Pro, and though it's far less offensive than the previous example, I still felt that her face is weirdly red. Still, I understand people just dismissing this as a warmer display that falls within the realm of reality. I bet some might even prefer how the Zephyrus renders the image.

tempImagewQ8seA.png

What made me feel like there was something wrong here that I was missing was the Razer Blade 16 from this year. See, this machine is meant to have an incredibly bright, incredibly color accurate screen that uses miniLED to achieve spectacular HDR to boot, all tied together with 4K resolution. It's been reviewed as a better screen than even the 2021/2023 MacBook Pros, and at times, I could see what people meant. Unfortunately, it somehow still suffered from the same exact problem:

tempImagex1EFgp.png

In 3 cases, this wasn't an example of me enjoying the machine until I saw this particular moment: I could tell something was weirdly oversaturated and warm about the system's colors. Even when I was enjoying the Blade 16's HDR, I could tell the colors were drastically off. Even with the Asus, the least offensive of the systems, things didn't look quite right.

To make it clear, my goal in writing this isn't to rant about these machines or laugh at them; it's all written from a place of confusion: how is this possible if professional tools measure these screens to have excellent colors?? I've had people tell me that despite these measurements, the simplest explanation is that these are gaming oriented screens and they simply aren't meant to be color accurate and that this is all par for the course. But I don't buy that, because of the following image. That's from the Dell G2410, a 1080p TN panel from 2010, the sort of display known to have mediocre to terrible colors connected to my MacBook through an antiquated VGA port. And indeed, while the colors of Tammy's face look uneven and poor, they're still not skewed toward the warm side in the same way they are in these other Windows machines. Point being, I can't imagine these computers, gaming oriented or not, having worse colors than this thing. There's something else going on here.

tempImageVyJRxm.png

The only other explanation would be that the displays are actually super accurate and Tammy's face just looks like a tomato. So, what's up? What am I doing wrong, perhaps at a software level, to see what I'm seeing? Does anyone have any experience with this or any theories? Let me know what you think.
 
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casperes1996

macrumors 604
Jan 26, 2014
7,433
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Horsens, Denmark
What program are you watching through?

It is generally the case, and unfortunately has been for a long time, that Windows has rather poor colour management. See, if you connect a P3 display to a Mac and open an sRGB image in Preview it's going to look just fine cause macOS will map the sRGB colour space of the image to proper values for the output needed to colour match with the P3 display. Windows doesn't really do this and provides poor programmer features to allow application developers to easily add this for their applications. As such, displays connected to Windows may be very accurate for a given colour space but if the application does not map colour spaces properly (or the user does so by knowing both content and display gamuts) it results in poor reproduction of colour no matter what. I don't know if they still do this but on the Surface devices in the past, Microsoft even added a quick toggle in the little notification quick action thing in Windows 10 to change the displays' colour modes between accurate sRGB, P3 and "vibrant" - That was the solution; have the user change the display colour space to match the content all the time.

If your testing was performed in a pro application like Adobe Premiere or DaVinci Resolve however I don't know what's happening; They should colour manage things themselves just fine.
 
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SteveJUAE

macrumors 601
Aug 14, 2015
4,426
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Land of Smiles
Your doing something odd as you can see my MBP16M2 is warmer and my Razer Book is more blue (similar to your MBP 13/14 - look at colour of her dress) using the same stock viewer. As the poster above notes you need to level the playing field with testing in better software

razerbook vs mbp16m2.jpg
 
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Apr 12, 2023
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Your doing something odd as you can see my MBP16M2 is warmer and my Razer Book is more blue (similar to your MBP 13/14 - look at colour of her dress) using the same stock viewer. As the poster above notes you need to level the playing field with testing in better software

View attachment 2190386
that can be fixed with a quick color calibration unit. I have a spyder unit and all of my devices (pc's) have the same color across the board.
 
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RedTheReader

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Nov 18, 2019
503
1,223
What program are you watching through?

It is generally the case, and unfortunately has been for a long time, that Windows has rather poor colour management. See, if you connect a P3 display to a Mac and open an sRGB image in Preview it's going to look just fine cause macOS will map the sRGB colour space of the image to proper values for the output needed to colour match with the P3 display. Windows doesn't really do this and provides poor programmer features to allow application developers to easily add this for their applications. As such, displays connected to Windows may be very accurate for a given colour space but if the application does not map colour spaces properly (or the user does so by knowing both content and display gamuts) it results in poor reproduction of colour no matter what. I don't know if they still do this but on the Surface devices in the past, Microsoft even added a quick toggle in the little notification quick action thing in Windows 10 to change the displays' colour modes between accurate sRGB, P3 and "vibrant" - That was the solution; have the user change the display colour space to match the content all the time.

If your testing was performed in a pro application like Adobe Premiere or DaVinci Resolve however I don't know what's happening; They should colour manage things themselves just fine.
Ah, I see. Thanks for the explanation. So, I confirmed this to be the case by using an external monitor to compare the latest machine I'm trying to force myself to love: the Razer Blade 17 (2022). These were the results comparing against my 14" MacBook Pro connected to the same monitor, an LG UltraFine 5K:

IMG_8176.jpeg
IMG_8177.jpeg

As the poster above notes you need to level the playing field with testing in better software
The problem is that this video isn't playing in any dedicated application. It's being streamed in a web browser. I've used Chrome for most of the Mac pictures but Safari for the more recent ones; it doesn't seem to make a difference. I've tried Edge for most of the Windows ones but Chrome for at least one, so that's not the problem either. It's just any Windows browser that I'd want to use right now that showcases this issue. Now, you could argue that I should just move to some native application to watch videos, but that doesn't solve the actual problem. This clip is just something I'm using as an example because it highlights the issue very well, but I can easily see this on any image while browsing. I need it—some solution, I mean—to work well on the web, or it's a non-answer for me. The idea of just ignoring it since browsing isn't color sensitive (which I imagine is something at least some people would say) is baffling to me as it would represent a significant day-to-day downgrade from every other screen I've got or look at.

I don't know if you guys have any solutions, but if not, I think that might just kill Windows for me. I can't believe Microsoft would let something like this slide for years.
 
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SteveJUAE

macrumors 601
Aug 14, 2015
4,426
4,632
Land of Smiles
The problem is that this video isn't playing in any dedicated application. It's being streamed in a web browser. I've used Chrome for most of the Mac pictures but Safari for the more recent ones; it doesn't seem to make a difference. I've tried Edge for most of the Windows ones but Chrome for at least one, so that's not the problem either. It's just any Windows browser that I'd want to use right now that showcases this issue. Now, you could argue that I should just move to some native application to watch videos, but that doesn't solve the actual problem. This clip is just something I'm using as an example because it highlights the issue very well, but I can easily see this on any image while browsing. I need it—some solution, I mean—to work well on the web, or it's a non-answer for me. The idea of just ignoring it since browsing isn't color sensitive (which I imagine is something at least some people would say) is baffling to me as it would represent a significant day-to-day downgrade from every other screen I've got or look at.

I don't know if you guys have any solutions, but if not, I think that might just kill Windows for me. I can't believe Microsoft would let something like this slide for years.
My example is using a web browser "Chrome" on both laptops (MBP16M2/Razer Book) and not a specific app to ensure some semblance of consistency, so this issue is specific to your setups only IMO and nothing to do with Win11
 
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RedTheReader

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Nov 18, 2019
503
1,223
My example is using a web browser "Chrome" on both laptops (MBP16M2/Razer Book) and not a specific app to ensure some semblance of consistency, so this issue is specific to your setups only IMO and nothing to do with Win11
Huh. Then I don't know what it could be. My Windows installs are all done by the manufacturer, with no serious modifications on my end. Like, I open up a new machine out of the box and go through the factory install prompts... that's it.

On of the only things I can think of at this point is that I'm miss-remembering about trying some of these on Chrome and all of them were actually on Edge; I know this most recent one was Edge. I'll check back after trying on Chrome.
 
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