Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk

[The-Real-Deal82]

Actually the interest has shifted to Hybrids, which are a far better solution in today's world and the near future. They take advantage of old and new infrastructure, none of the charging anxiety never charge a plug in hybrid and the hybrid system still works fine. Many just look at the range on electric only and completely miss the the point.
Industry, wanting to suck up as much government money as possible always pitch solutions several generations ahead of where we are today to luddites controlling purse strings. They never talk cradle to grave analysis or system capacity to sustain production of say batteries as one example. EV sales nosedived in US after one large storm paralyzed charging infrastructure and media did their thing. Those driving hybrids and Gas vehicles had no issues.

I’d sooner keep our EV than drive a hybrid though as it’s a hell of a lot cheaper to run an EV. Hybrids have limited range on battery and appalling mpg once on combustion due to them often being heavy vehicles housing batteries and an engine.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

So, in the NY area, we have bridges/bridge levels/tunnels that you're not allowed to use with compressed gas tanks. Don't Hydrogen vehicles fall under that classification? I can't imagine having a passenger vehicle that I would have to monitor which bridge/bridge level/tunnel I use, especially in the North East USA.

There are also instances where EV’s are excluded due to policies on fires, two Norwegian ferry companies have this policy, along with car parks in parts of Europe. Norway is EV capital of the world with the highest adoption rate yet some companies are sacrificing profit due to fears of not having the resources to tackle lithium fires. I hope this strategy does not become commonplace.

 

[diamond.g]

Percent is accurate. I never was disputing that hence the recommendation is to always leave it on percent. That is displaying actual power left by percentage of the battery and will decrease by your actual consumption.

If you change it to miles, that is where it will be inaccurate.

It is even more fun when you realize the degradation calculation is "fluid" and can even change based on the software you are running.

 

[jz0309]

I’d sooner keep our EV than drive a hybrid though as it’s a hell of a lot cheaper to run an EV. Hybrids have limited range on battery and appalling mpg once on combustion due to them often being heavy vehicles housing batteries and an engine.

well, if you look at the Prius and the success it had/has ...

and as for hydrogen, I'm not against it, it probably makes sense in certain areas/regions, but, given the current goals (zero emission sales by 2035) we will have mixed fleets (ICE, EV, ???) for at least another 20-30 years and given the slow adoption of public charging infrastructure, I just don't see yet a 3rd infrastructure being built out, at least not for the masses

 

[quagmire]

Hydrogen makes sense for the big stuff IMHO with current known tech.

Semi's, planes, etc. I know Tesla has the Semi, but it's not a long haul rig.

The issue with hydrogen is it's not energy dense like diesel or Jet-A. Of course it takes a lot of energy right now to produce it.

 

[hobowankenobi]

Nope, much worse than that in the eyes of some people, and incredibly inspiring in the eyes of others. But hey, this isn't about me, I just like nice transparent pricing and consumers to be able to get a good deal for themselves. A car manufacturer taking that in house is not it, on the contrary, that is just more profit for them.

Hehehehehe... good one!

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

well, if you look at the Prius and the success it had/has ...

and as for hydrogen, I'm not against it, it probably makes sense in certain areas/regions, but, given the current goals (zero emission sales by 2035) we will have mixed fleets (ICE, EV, ???) for at least another 20-30 years and given the slow adoption of public charging infrastructure, I just don't see yet a 3rd infrastructure being built out, at least not for the masses

Could filling stations currently used for ICE vehicles not introduce it much like LPG pumps were added 20 years ago? Those filling stations occupy in the tens of thousands per country and are separate to EV charging locations, so it could potentially be viable. Not saying for definite, just putting it out there for discussion.

I think EV growth prior to 2024 grew very fast, but is still very small in the grand scheme of things. Alternatives to ICE for the future is still in its infancy so in my view it’s still early enough for alternative technologies to join the race.

 

[hobowankenobi]

I guess you have to define where the tailpipe is because pollution, toxic waste, environmental damage, corruption and labor exploitation from Ev production is spread all over the world, except of course in neighborhoods where most owners live.🤨

This again. Fundamentally inaccurate, and has been debunked repeatedly by respected sources.

Having worked in oil fields and refineries in 3 different states in the US, and with 3 generations of family doing the same...there is literally no way that any resource mining for batteries is worse overall than oil extraction.

Nobody but the tree huggers even acknowledge the true cost of oil in either money or destruction...and these same people lament the mining of other things. These people don't give a rip about every other battery-powered device they own, and they care exactly 0% about the massive amount of cobalt used in oil refining and other industries. Literally, everything you list has been happening for about a century with oil extraction/production—to say nothing of the wars for oil—and nobody even flinches. Only EVs are bad.

Even if resource mining for batteries was just as bad as oil extraction, batteries still easily win just on tailpipe emissions alone.

 

[I7guy]

I am a bit more open minded on this and there are still a vocal majority out there who think EV’s won’t go anywhere and that is part of the problem with the market segment at the moment. People like you and me who drive EV’s see some of the benefits but many are voting with their wallets and not giving it the chance. It’ll come down to cost and convenience and if some of the big players gamble on hydrogen as they are, it’ll be the market that decides.

I think hydrogen and EV’s are comparable on range (400 miles approx), but an advantage hydrogen has is the refuel time. It’s the same as an ICE vehicle. The EV market needs to solve this as 20 minutes for a supercharger will not be viable if hypothetically everybody chooses EV’s. It’s fine at the moment as a fraction of the overall number of motorists drive EV’s, so there is no congestion at chargers.

I think we’ll see these technologies go head to head along with ICE and hybrids sharing this space.

I would be surprised if hydrogen took off in a big way. there is an uphill battle with cost and distribution. Much less so with EVs. Evs have a lot of resources from many sources aiming to make them more convenient. From more dense batteries, 800 volt architecture and wireless charging.

Hybrids to me respresent the worst aspects of EVs and ICE vehicle. But you are correct and at the end of the day the market will decide. Even though EVs are going through a slump, I expect things start to turn around with more affordable options being produced by manufacturers.

As far as Tesla the company will either sink or swim.

 

[I7guy]

I guess you have to define where the tailpipe is because pollution, toxic waste, environmental damage, corruption and labor exploitation from Ev production is spread all over the world, except of course in neighborhoods where most owners live.🤨

This applies to oil as well and it’s rinse and repeat ad-infinitum. You can pick your study, that shows the total environmental impact over the life of a vehicle, whether it’s BEV, ICE or hybrid and have it fit your point of view.

In that way if you want to cast the worst light possible hybrids and EVs share a lot of commonality and ICE is in part responsible for the holes in the ozone. The reason I said tail-pipe is that is what I meant.

Of course charging kicks the can down the road, but using nuclear and green energy and solar to charge your vehicle has decided advantages on the environment.

But this conversation can go into the weeds.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Actually the interest has shifted to Hybrids, which are a far better solution in today's world and the near future. They take advantage of old and new infrastructure, none of the charging anxiety never charge a plug in hybrid and the hybrid system still works fine. Many just look at the range on electric only and completely miss the the point.
Industry, wanting to suck up as much government money as possible always pitch solutions several generations ahead of where we are today to luddites controlling purse strings. They never talk cradle to grave analysis or system capacity to sustain production of say batteries as one example. EV sales nosedived in US after one large storm paralyzed charging infrastructure and media did their thing. Those driving hybrids and Gas vehicles had no issues.

Hybrids. The worst of both worlds.

 

[Apple fanboy]

This again. Fundamentally inaccurate, and has been debunked repeatedly by respected sources.

Having worked in oil fields and refineries in 3 different states in the US, and with 3 generations of family doing the same...there is literally no way that any resource mining for batteries is worse overall than oil extraction.

Nobody but the tree huggers even acknowledge the true cost of oil in either money or destruction...and these same people lament the mining of other things. These people don't give a rip about every other battery-powered device they own, and they care exactly 0% about the massive amount of cobalt used in oil refining and other industries. Literally, everything you list has been happening for about a century with oil extraction/production—to say nothing of the wars for oil—and nobody even flinches. Only EVs are bad.

Even if resource mining for batteries was just as bad as oil extraction, batteries still easily win just on tailpipe emissions alone.

Exactly.

 

[RCElectricFlyer]

Hybrids. The worst of both worlds.

In a sense, plug-in hybrids (PHEVs) are like the worst of both worlds - the battery can be too small to get the full savings of EV efficiency and they have to carry around the higher maintenance engine/drivetrain. These are distinct from mild hybrids (HEVs) which are gas cars with a little kinetic energy recovery and thus, every little in savings. But PHEVs are often the "gateway drug" to EVs for those who use them properly.

 

[JT2002TJ]

I am team full EV. But, if the Engine is a light engine that is simply a generator that charges the biggest battery they can fit, I don't hate it. This would be minimal load on the engine.

But I still think EVs are the way...

The problem with the Prius has always been it was slow. The newest is much better, but a lot of people, me included, don't want a car that's slower than an 18-wheeler.

 

[4sallypat]

In a sense, plug-in hybrids (PHEVs) are like the worst of both worlds - the battery can be too small to get the full savings of EV efficiency and they have to carry around the higher maintenance engine/drivetrain. These are distinct from mild hybrids (HEVs) which are gas cars with a little kinetic energy recovery and thus, every little in savings. But PHEVs are often the "gateway drug" to EVs for those who use them properly.

My wife loves her PHEV.
45 mile range per charge is enough for her daily roundtrip commute.
Very little fuel used in the past 6 years of ownership.

She originally hated BEV - not happy about the recharge times and strange places we ended up trying to find a CCS fast charger in strange little towns...

Now that I have access to Tesla SC - my wife likes them now because shopping places are next door.
Guess how long I had to wait for her to finish shopping after I finished charging at Tesla ?

 

[jz0309]

The problem with the Prius has always been it was slow. The newest is much better, but a lot of people, me included, don't want a car that's slower than an 18-wheeler.

My 2017 Prius Prime had the governor at 104mph ... I had the previous gen Prius for 5 years, never had a problem with "slow" in SoCal

 

[RCElectricFlyer]

Guess how long I had to wait for her to finish shopping after I finished charging at Tesla ?

I'm gonna go with 2 hours. 😆

 

[jz0309]

Guess how long I had to wait for her to finish shopping after I finished charging at Tesla ?

bet you could have charged to 100%

 

[danny_w]

Guess how long I had to wait for her to finish shopping after I finished charging at Tesla ?

Wouldn’t work for me - my wife is one of the few women the world that hate shopping.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Wouldn’t work for me - my wife is one of the few women the world that hate shopping.

Same here. On the very odd occasion we go to the shops, we get there when they open and are out of there not long after that.

 

[4sallypat]

bet you could have charged to 100%

Yes, 100% is perfect as we were on a road trip thru Central California where CCS chargers were hit/miss.

Loving Ford & Tesla agreement to allow us Ford owners to use the Supercharger network.

 

[hobowankenobi]

Wouldn’t work for me - my wife is one of the few women the world that hate shopping.

Does she have a sister!?

 

[danny_w]

N

Does she have a sister!?

Nope - only 3 brothers. Sorry.

 

[burgman]

This applies to oil as well and it’s rinse and repeat ad-infinitum. You can pick your study, that shows the total environmental impact over the life of a vehicle, whether it’s BEV, ICE or hybrid and have it fit your point of view.

In that way if you want to cast the worst light possible hybrids and EVs share a lot of commonality and ICE is in part responsible for the holes in the ozone. The reason I said tail-pipe is that is what I meant.

Of course charging kicks the can down the road, but using nuclear and green energy and solar to charge your vehicle has decided advantages on the environment.

But this conversation can go into the weeds.

The missed point is viable alternatives like new generation nuclear, hydrogen infrastructure and cars, are all decades away. So please keep debating without a clue. What you’re really doing is nothing to break the oil cartels control in mental pursuit of the perfect. Opinions here of course are backed up with all that late night engineering study. Of course it’s Macrumors so the fix is simple.

 

[I7guy]

The missed point is viable alternatives like new generation nuclear, hydrogen infrastructure and cars, are all decades away. So please keep debating without a clue. What you’re really doing is nothing to break the oil cartels control in mental pursuit of the perfect. Opinions here of course are backed up with all that late night engineering study. Of course it’s Macrumors so the fix is simple.

Wow. I have some power stopping the breakup of the "oil cartels". The "opinion" contained in the post I quoted:

I guess you have to define where the tailpipe is because pollution, toxic waste, environmental damage, corruption and labor exploitation from Ev production is spread all over the world, except of course in neighborhoods where most owners live.🤨

is a generalized mountain of disinformation which under scrutiny can't be backed up at scale.