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Diatribe

macrumors 601
Jan 8, 2004
4,257
44
Back in the motherland
-Diatribe

I think this is inevitable considering the device is only HD. Heck it's basically a thin client, I see great extensibility - maybe even 1080i some day.

BTW- We like Hitachis ;)

Hehe, you have one too?

Anyway, after seeing the specs today, I must say I am reconsidering the probabilty of a purchase. No multi-channel audio is a deal breaker for me.
Just for listening to music this is not worth the price of admission. Too bad, could've been something. :(

Edit: And on top of that it doesn't support the minimum HD spec which is 60fps. No multi-channel audio AND no HD content? Lol, this is worse than I thought. :(
 

patrick0brien

macrumors 68040
Oct 24, 2002
3,246
9
The West Loop
Hehe, you have one too?

Anyway, after seeing the specs today, I must say I am reconsidering the probabilty of a purchase. No multi-channel audio is a deal breaker for me.
Just for listening to music this is not worth the price of admission. Too bad, could've been something. :(

Edit: And on top of that it doesn't support the minimum HD spec which is 60fps. No multi-channel audio AND no HD content? Lol, this is worse than I thought. :(

-Diatribe

Yes, just for music would be silly.

However, after rereading the specs you linked to, I see something funny. Nowhere in there does anything indicate that there is hardware limitation keeping it from 5.1(and 7.1 woohoo!). It's got HDMI which, by definition of it's own spec, supports multichannel quite well (I can speak to this), as well as optical audio which is ideal for it as well. It seems that the :apple:TV's perceived limitations are software/firmware and content based.
(*one possible exception - what are the upper limitations of the video card? The Mini Solo I have now struggles a bit with 1080p)

Additionally H.264 and MPEG-4 codecs do support multichannel (I should hope so, MPEG-2 for DVD's sure does)

What encourages me is the fact that the hardware supports everything we want, so do the codecs. And those little disclaimers: "Actual capacity varies by content."

This is just what I see though, with a generous dollop of 'Knowing His Steveness and His Sneaky Ways' (c). Apple rarely ships a full product already at the wall of obsolescence - good example is the C2D 'books with hidden 802.11n functionality.

I think you're right - they're underpromising right now. But I believe through firmware updates, we'll see capacity deeper than advertised - or at last, that's my wishful thinking. ;)

Of course, I'll report findings, as well as a bunch of other folks here in this little thread of ours.

As for the Hitachi, sure CPX345, bought mainly for presentations. Oh, and I work for an Hitachi ;) (see profile)
 

Diatribe

macrumors 601
Jan 8, 2004
4,257
44
Back in the motherland
-Diatribe

Yes, just for music would be silly.

However, after rereading the specs you linked to, I see something funny. Nowhere in there does anything indicate that there is hardware limitation keeping it from 5.1(and 7.1 woohoo!). It's got HDMI which, by definition of it's own spec, supports multichannel quite well (I can speak to this), as well as optical audio which is ideal for it as well. It seems that the :apple:TV's perceived limitations are software/firmware and content based.
(*one possible exception - what are the upper limitations of the video card? The Mini Solo I have now struggles a bit with 1080p)

Additionally H.264 and MPEG-4 codecs do support multichannel (I should hope so, MPEG-2 for DVD's sure does)

What encourages me is the fact that the hardware supports everything we want, so do the codecs. And those little disclaimers: "Actual capacity varies by content."

This is just what I see though, with a generous dollop of 'Knowing His Steveness and His Sneaky Ways' (c). Apple rarely ships a full product already at the wall of obsolescence - good example is the C2D 'books with hidden 802.11n functionality.

I think you're right - they're underpromising right now. But I believe through firmware updates, we'll see capacity deeper than advertised - or at last, that's my wishful thinking. ;)

Of course, I'll report findings, as well as a bunch of other folks here in this little thread of ours.

As for the Hitachi, sure CPX345, bought mainly for presentations. Oh, and I work for an Hitachi ;) (see profile)

Yeah, let me know how it works out for you. :)

AAC-LC is capable of multiple channels, there is just no receiver that decodes that so the :apple:tv would have to do that. Also it would have to up-convert the 24fps to 60fps, so it works on TVs (at least that always was my understanding). I am just hoping that the processor in this is up to the task.

I would just love to buy HD content with 5.1 audio. I would probably buy no more DVDs if Apple sold 720p with 5.1 audio and I would get the :apple:tv in a second.
I guess those are the only two wishes I have, as you said, just for audio it seems kind of silly. We will see what the future brings. Again, I am looking forward to seeing how it works for you. :)

As for the job, nice, I bet you get great deals. :D
 

patrick0brien

macrumors 68040
Oct 24, 2002
3,246
9
The West Loop
AAC-LC is capable of multiple channels, there is just no receiver that decodes that so the :apple:tv would have to do that. Also it would have to up-convert the 24fps to 60fps, so it works on TVs (at least that always was my understanding). I am just hoping that the processor in this is up to the task.

-Diatribe

Ah ha! I think I see the disconnect here! You’re right, there aren’t any 5.1 direct-to-speakers out from the box itself. You are absolutely right, you’d need to decode it somewhere else. I have a receiver that does all that for me, so it’s never occurred to me that that was a limitation for people. Sorry about that.

And that sir, is a very interesting point.

I will say this though: some TV’s are capable of being an audio decoder as well. Like,
|-:apple:TV HDMI OUT-->TV HDMI INPUT-->TV AUDIO OUT-->5.1 Speakers-|

I would just love to buy HD content with 5.1 audio. I would probably buy no more DVDs if Apple sold 720p with 5.1 audio and I would get the :apple:tv in a second.
I guess those are the only two wishes I have, as you said, just for audio it seems kind of silly. We will see what the future brings. Again, I am looking forward to seeing how it works for you. :)

Yeah, I’m not terribly worried about the upconversions of fps or anything els, these HDTVs anymore are getting pretty good at that – heck I throw full DVD 720-480p (yes progressive) through the receiver to the TV and everything is hunky-dory.

As for the job, nice, I bet you get great deals. :D

Would it surprise you to know that it may be our drive in that box? ;) Yeah, we get our own private online Apple store.

BTW- one thing I found out about the :apple:TV that’s a drag – its 7.7” square, and the Mac Mini is 5.5” square. Rats – they won’t nest well.

My :apple:TV is in Anchorage right now – I expect it Friday. Going to be setting shelfspace aside for it tonight – tearing out all my optical cables too. All HDMI from here on out.

I'd like to add that I think this is an extremely on-topic conversation - I was worried I was straying a bit at the beginning there. :D
 

Krevnik

macrumors 601
Sep 8, 2003
4,100
1,310
AAC-LC is capable of multiple channels, there is just no receiver that decodes that so the :apple:tv would have to do that. Also it would have to up-convert the 24fps to 60fps, so it works on TVs (at least that always was my understanding). I am just hoping that the processor in this is up to the task.

TVs display at 60Hz, but there is no requirement in HD that content be provided at 60Hz. There are a couple different 'specs' regarding framerate. IIRC, 24, 25, and 30 are all supported framerates for HD video as per ATSC specs.

Just that now, like before, the TV displays at 60Hz because of interlaced video.
 

/dev/toaster

macrumors 68020
Feb 23, 2006
2,478
249
San Francisco, CA
Not supporting 480i was a poor choice on Apples part. It didn't really occur to me until mine shipped. Yes, I have an HD TV ... but, it won't be here until my move is complete (3+ weeks).

Even worse then waiting for it to ship, is now I get to stare at the box for a few weeks before I can use it.

I think Apple is going to have a lot of returns when people realize they can't use it on a SD TV. I have a friend who called me up today cursing me out because I recommended him getting an AppleTV but didn't realize it had no support for SD TVs.

I don't think the lack of support for 480i is going to kill it, but it could have made things better.

Oh well, back to a few more weeks of waiting ... *sigh*
 

Diode

macrumors 68020
Original poster
Apr 15, 2004
2,443
125
Washington DC
Edit: And on top of that it doesn't support the minimum HD spec which is 60fps. No multi-channel audio AND no HD content? Lol, this is worse than I thought. :(

60 FPS? Huh? Most stuff is shot at 24FPS including HD. Where did you get 60 from?
 

patrick0brien

macrumors 68040
Oct 24, 2002
3,246
9
The West Loop
Not supporting 480i was a poor choice on Apples part. It didn't really occur to me until mine shipped. Yes, I have an HD TV ... but, it won't be here until my move is complete (3+ weeks).

Even worse then waiting for it to ship, is now I get to stare at the box for a few weeks before I can use it.

I think Apple is going to have a lot of returns when people realize they can't use it on a SD TV. I have a friend who called me up today cursing me out because I recommended him getting an AppleTV but didn't realize it had no support for SD TVs.

I don't think the lack of support for 480i is going to kill it, but it could have made things better.

Oh well, back to a few more weeks of waiting ... *sigh*

-/dev/toaster

Apple is just looking ahead - they've always done this. Never afraid to toss serial, floppies, AAUI, OS 9 out the window in favor of the next step - even if it's Somewhat painful.

It's less than two years before the death of 480i, it'll be here before you know it. You may not be in the market now, but that may change.
 

/dev/toaster

macrumors 68020
Feb 23, 2006
2,478
249
San Francisco, CA
-/dev/toaster

Apple is just looking ahead - they've always done this. Never afraid to toss serial, floppies, AAUI, OS 9 out the window in favor of the next step - even if it's Somewhat painful.

It's less than two years before the death of 480i, it'll be here before you know it. You may not be in the market now, but that may change.

Its going to take a lot longer then 2 years to see the death of 480i. I suppose your right about Apple looking towards the future on it.
 

patrick0brien

macrumors 68040
Oct 24, 2002
3,246
9
The West Loop
Its going to take a lot longer then 2 years to see the death of 480i. I suppose your right about Apple looking towards the future on it.

-/dev/toaster

Perhaps practically, yes, the legacy 480i equipment and content in people's homes and rental stores will live on for a while, but the FCC has mandated that all analog (e.g. 480i) broadcasts cease in 2009, this would require a set top box for any legacy 480i sets to continue to receive analog content over the air. Cable will follow - in fact, it's largely there already, a switchover is academic at this point.

It'll be messy, but 480i will begin to die, February 18 2009 in the US.

Other countries have already begun, or actually completed the switchover.

Linkypoo

and as for the date... (one source) Linkypoo
 

Diode

macrumors 68020
Original poster
Apr 15, 2004
2,443
125
Washington DC
It'll be messy, but 480i will begin to die, February 18 2009 in the US.

Aye hopefully the FCC won't push that date back again as they did for the earlier round. The big channels are still dragging their feet while screwing over the PBS channels. When I was in high school my local PBS channel (where I worked) was HD ready in 2000 while the local networks were complaining about the cost.

/off topic
I see you worked for KPMG consulting ... I'm with bearingpoint now ;-) I've heard some stories on how wild it was back then.
 

corona47

macrumors newbie
Mar 22, 2007
2
0
Itunes can play Divx/avi

Why are so many supposedly clued-up people insisting that itunes can't play Divx/avi files. Have you people never heard of versiontracker.com. I suggest that anyone wishing to purchase an Apple TV or indeed watch avi files via itunes, go to versiontracker.com and download a piece of free software called "movie2itunes". Once installed, launch it and drop any avi file onto the window and it will be imported into itunes.

Simple really.
 

corona47

macrumors newbie
Mar 22, 2007
2
0
Apple TV Can Play DIVX!!

If it plays divx then I could be sold, but aparently it won't so I'm not.

I have too many computers with all types of media on them, if I could consolidate it all into itunes and then consolidate all of that over the network to an :apple:tv then it'd be fab, but it's not looking like I'll be able to.

Just download "movie2itunes" from versiontracker.com.

It imports avi files into itunes just by dropping them onto this programmes window.
 

zen

macrumors 68000
Jun 26, 2003
1,713
472
Why are so many supposedly clued-up people insisting that itunes can't play Divx/avi files. Have you people never heard of versiontracker.com. I suggest that anyone wishing to purchase an Apple TV or indeed watch avi files via itunes, go to versiontracker.com and download a piece of free software called "movie2itunes". Once installed, launch it and drop any avi file onto the window and it will be imported into itunes.

Simple really.

That probably won't work - all movie2itunes does is create a mov linking file to the original DivX file. That linking mov can then be imported into iTunes - I've done it manually using Quicktime, movie2iTunes just automates the process.

To play the DivX file you still need to keep the original DivX file, plus you need to have whatever DivX codec you want installed on your computer.

I assume it won't work on the Apple TV, even if you play it via iTunes having made your shortcut with movie2itunes, because the DivX codec is not installed on the AppleTV box itself.

I imagine it will be possible to hack the Apple TV and install the DivX codec on it, but we'll need to wait and see.
 

Diatribe

macrumors 601
Jan 8, 2004
4,257
44
Back in the motherland
-Diatribe

Ah ha! I think I see the disconnect here! You’re right, there aren’t any 5.1 direct-to-speakers out from the box itself. You are absolutely right, you’d need to decode it somewhere else. I have a receiver that does all that for me, so it’s never occurred to me that that was a limitation for people. Sorry about that.

And that sir, is a very interesting point.

I will say this though: some TV’s are capable of being an audio decoder as well. Like,
|-:apple:TV HDMI OUT-->TV HDMI INPUT-->TV AUDIO OUT-->5.1 Speakers-|

Yeah, I’m not terribly worried about the upconversions of fps or anything els, these HDTVs anymore are getting pretty good at that – heck I throw full DVD 720-480p (yes progressive) through the receiver to the TV and everything is hunky-dory.

These two are from the other thread, don't know if you saw. I found that pretty interesting:

I'd like to address this since I have a trademark service agreement with Dolby Laboratories to use Dolby Digital logos/trademarks in conjunction with content I produce that meets their fidelity criteria...

Both AAC and AC-3 are perceptual coding schema. In fact, AAC is partially a descendant of AC-3, and was co-developed by Dolby Laboratories, Fraunhofer-IIS and a few other partners.

AAC supports multichannel audio, but it's not readable by an AC-3 decoder. In order for this to happen, the multichannel content must be transcoded.

There are hardware and software transcoders. One that strikes me as a distinct possibility for future AppleTV application is Dolby Digital Live. It was specifically designed to transcode multichannel output from, e.g., gaming platforms and other platforms that generate dynamically-changing multichannel audio (an operating system could be one example).

The advantage of this is that AppleTV as it is, is only a software upgrade away from incorporating such a transcoder.

The current bandwidth limitation of 160kbps for H.264-embedded AAC bitstreams are not really relevant to the question because that support too is essentially a software upgrade away. Less powerful processors have been used to decode DVD bitstreams in DVD players that range from 6 to 8 Mbps on a two-pass VBR encoded disc.

5.1-channel AC-3 is generally encoded into bitstreams ranging form 320 to 640kbps, with 448kbps being the fidelity standard for DVD and 320kbps being the standard bitstream encoded for theatrical application of Dolby Digital. Yes, you heard me correctly... Dolby Digital for DVD uses a higher bitrate than the theatrical variant.

It should be noted, however, that AAC's performance as a perceptual coding schema is superior to AC-3 at every bitrate. Put another way, an AAC bitstream would not need to be 448kbps to be perceptually transparent relative to AC-3.

At bitrates from 448kbps to 640kbps, AC-3 is perceptually transparent relative to an uncompressed multichannel stream. That is to say it's indiscernible from the uncompressed equivalent at those bitrates because of the way the encoding algorithm, low pass filtering, and other features reduce the bandwidth requirements for perceptible fidelity in the spectrum of human hearing.

A good reference measure is the performance of AC-3 stereo to AAC stereo. At 192kbps, 2.0-channel AC-3 is perceptually transparent. However, AES states that AAC is perceptually transparent at 128kbps.

The right transcoding algorithm combined with the right AAC parameters could, in principle, be capable of reconstructing a high-fidelity surround mix from 448kbps AAC or less. And this is not including any design improvements or new perceptual coding schema succesors to AAC.

In short, there's no fundamental hardware gap here... Just a software one.

Some will want to wait until that gap is bridged. Others, including myself, see this as an opportunity to support a very promising convergence of technologies that will drive the future of how we purchase, store, distribute, access, and experience home entertainment.

Any way you slice it, this technology is going to move forward and surpass the current fixed media schema. It was done with music recording (DAT is out, HDD is in), it's being done with digital cinematography (Thomson ViperStream, Panavision Genesis HD) and digital theatrical projection (Barco Cinema Projection HD, Texas Instruments DLP), and it continues with AppleTV and its inevitable emerging competitors.

The LAN is emerging as the backbone of home leisure/entertainment activity and all of Apple's efforts since 1997 have been sharply focused on broadening the original "hub" strategy from computer software/hardware integration with digital peripherals (iTunes, iMovie, iPhoto) to design and manufacture of digital peripherals (iPod) to datacenter distribution of content (iTunes Music Store) for digital peripherals to total household integration via the LAN and very soon WAN integration with digital peripherals (Mobile Mac).




While I don't think AppleTV in its current form can accomplish this, but HDMI 1.1 spec allows for upto 8 channels of uncompressed lossless audio in the form of PCM (pulse code modulation). This can actually support 24-bit 192kHz sampling rate. In fact, the PS3 has HDMI and it supports PCM output. So, instead of worrying about good quality DACs in the AppleTV, in a future iteration, Apple could go with multi channel PCM output through HDMI. This is the only way to achieve lossless surround sound through PS3. Optical only provides lossy DD or DTS.

Most mid range receivers today and even lower end receivers of tomorrow will offer HDMI sound processing (including PCM support). In fact, Sony has just released lower end receivers (<$400) that does PCM over HDMI.

So, Apple could use AAC 5.1 encoding in the file and then decode them to PCM and send them out through HDMI. This way, you can avoid DACs and all the analog baggage that comes with it.

The reason the frame rate for the movies is 24fps is because that is the frame rate for movies. It will be converted to 60Hz for 720p and 60 fields for 1080i by AppleTV. The method they use for this could be the 3:2 telecine. In fact, premium TVs and projectors support 24Hz but most consumer TVs don't. Some of the expensive Bluray players support 24Hz. This avoids the entire 3:2 pulldown issue.

I believe Apple might have restricted it to 720p and not 1080p because of cost/processing issues. Remember the PS3 is taking a loss of each device, while AppleTV is not. I have a PS3 and love it, BTW.

Many video cards with fancy features are more than $299. The video card in the AppleTV is a pretty low end one. I am sure they are still optimizing. The next gen should have better capabilities.




Would it surprise you to know that it may be our drive in that box? ;) Yeah, we get our own private online Apple store.

BTW- one thing I found out about the :apple:TV that’s a drag – its 7.7” square, and the Mac Mini is 5.5” square. Rats – they won’t nest well.

My :apple:TV is in Anchorage right now – I expect it Friday. Going to be setting shelfspace aside for it tonight – tearing out all my optical cables too. All HDMI from here on out.

I'd like to add that I think this is an extremely on-topic conversation - I was worried I was straying a bit at the beginning there. :D


Hehe, in any case I don't think anyone would've cared that much. But your own Apple store? :eek: That's pretty cool. :D
 

Wolfpup

macrumors 68030
Sep 7, 2006
2,927
105
From it's announcement I've seen the Apple TV as a very niche market. It's basically just for people who own large libraries of videos purchased from the iTunes store...

but the iTunes store is a rip off. If I'm going to buy a movie or show, I'm going to get it (probably for the same price or sometimes cheaper) on DVD, with better video quality, much better portability, availability, etc.

On top of that, I hardly ever buy movies or shows. I don't want to watch most stuff more than once.

I doubt Apple can do it, but I've been intrigued by the idea that Apple could offer essentially a "TV service" that's just a flat monthly fee for all you can watch. As a RENTAL service, the iTunes store would be solid, but Apple has shown no interest in rentals. With such a service, the Apple TV could really be great. Apple could have essentially their own TV service, and instantly be directly competing with regular providers...

but it's not going to happen. Apple's shown no interest in it, and even if they did, content providers would have to agree to it, and the cost couldn't be too high.

As it is, the vast majority of people out there would be far better served by a DVD player than an AppleTV. I think at this point if it sells well, it will actually be because of the Apple name. People buying it without any real idea of what they're going to use it for.

Sidenote-IMO it's inexplicable that AppleTV doesn't support composite and S-Video, especially since it doesn't really even have any HD content (yet anyway). Baffling. But then the entire product is baffling.

Comparisons to the iPod are flawed. The iPod solved an actual problem better than other MP3 players on the market. Other hard drive players were much larger at the time. Flash players were very small in capacity. The iPod had a better screen and interface than most if not all competitors.

Apple TV doesn't solve any problem, except for the small niche of people who have decided to tie themselves to Apple's hardware and software for video, instead of just buying DVDs, which are superior in virtually every regard.

I've also found analysts who compare Apple TV to Tivo or Netflix baffling. Apple TV competes much more directly with Best Buy than it does Tivo or Netflix, both of which essentially provide a ton of great content for a low monthly price (versus providing limited content for a high price).

Personally the DVR market is a little tough to crack as there is no great way to hook one to your TV. I've tried the Tivo method but hated the lag in changing channels. I currently use one my cable provider has provided me since it integrates so nicely with their system.

With Tivo there's no reason to actually change channels. There's no need to "channel browse" on any regular basis. The only reason there's a lag is because it begins recording, and then plays it back from the drive, so you get a second or two while that happens...but like I said, 99% of the time you shouldn't even be directly tuning channels anyway.

Driveless (or small hard drive)
Larger hard drive no DVR
DVR with large hard drive.

I've long thought Apple would be in a position to make a GREAT DVR, and have been surprised that they've never pursued it at all. Unfortunately, the Apple TV is almost contrary to a DVR-since they're now trying to sell content, they're less likely to build a device that lets us capture content from a different source. Someone mentioned a blog about Apple becoming like Sony and losing sight of the big picture-that really may be the case here.

I disagree, they are actually early to a party about to start. In the tech industry, even in the cable companies... IPTV is being heavily researched. All your TV content, distributed over IP instead of antiquated VHF/UHF signals (for digital cable, anyways, basic cable will likely remain as-is for some time to come). Companies like Comcast would only need to distribute new STBs, and they can reclaim chunks of bandwidth currently devoted to OnDemand and PPV channels. IPTV has a fairly fixed bandwidth requirement, regardless of the channel count, unlike current solutions.

Unless Apple starts up their own rental service with a flat fee, Apple TV is nothing like an IPTV service. IPTV won't even be noticed by most users. They'll just switch service providers, or get a new box, or whatever, and not even understand/know they're getting IPTV now.

Not quite the best analogy, but pretty close. Toyota was already a contender in cars before hybrid technology started to materialize into something that could be sold. Here, Apple and Microsoft are both new contenders to the content distribution market... and Microsoft already sees the 360 as a vehicle for IPTV on their terms. I wouldn't be surprised if the Apple TV is an IPTV vehicle for Apple, just that they don't want to sell it based on what it eventually might, possibly, maybe do.

Apple TV isn't anything close to IPTV. What the 360 is going to be doing is actual IPTV, just using the 360 as the box rather than a separate box.

What about 'one touch DVD rip with DRM'?

i.e. iTunes rips the DVD and encodes it with the user's Fairplay user ID such that it's subject to similar usage restrictions as that bought through iTMS.

That's something I've thought about for the last two years. Seems logical to me, and it would help iPod sales explode-even more than they are now.But I think even if they could, Apple won't as they now see themselves as a content provider. Another case like Sony...

IMO Apple's software and hardware choices are beginning to be seriously hurt by the iTunes store.
 

Krevnik

macrumors 601
Sep 8, 2003
4,100
1,310
Unless Apple starts up their own rental service with a flat fee, Apple TV is nothing like an IPTV service. IPTV won't even be noticed by most users. They'll just switch service providers, or get a new box, or whatever, and not even understand/know they're getting IPTV now.

Apple TV isn't anything close to IPTV. What the 360 is going to be doing is actual IPTV, just using the 360 as the box rather than a separate box.

Before bashing my ideas by telling me what AppleTV /is/... realize those posts are speculation on what further goal Apple /could/ have for the AppleTV in future iterations.

As it stands now, the only difference between the 360's capabilities to do IPTV and AppleTV's is that MS has /announced/ it will do IPTV in the next year. Apple doesn't announce jack, they release it. So we can't say if it will or won't, we can only speculate. For the record though, the Apple TV hardware certainly is capable of IPTV, the software currently isn't.
 

Wolfpup

macrumors 68030
Sep 7, 2006
2,927
105
Before bashing my ideas by telling me what AppleTV /is/... realize those posts are speculation on what further goal Apple /could/ have for the AppleTV in future iterations.

As it stands now, the only difference between the 360's capabilities to do IPTV and AppleTV's is that MS has /announced/ it will do IPTV in the next year. Apple doesn't announce jack, they release it. So we can't say if it will or won't, we can only speculate. For the record though, the Apple TV hardware certainly is capable of IPTV, the software currently isn't.

Sure, but Apple's never shown any indication they're going to do that. And even if they did, there's no guarantee it would make as much sense as using the hardware from whatever company they would be partnering with. Regardless, that's no reason to buy an Apple TV now.
I mean my computer is perfectly capable of being an IPTV box too, but that's not going to happen either.

I have to also disagree about them not pre-announcing stuff. They did for the Apple TV itself, and even more for the iPhone-especially important since they have to partner with someone for that too.
 

Krevnik

macrumors 601
Sep 8, 2003
4,100
1,310
Sure, but Apple's never shown any indication they're going to do that. And even if they did, there's no guarantee it would make as much sense as using the hardware from whatever company they would be partnering with. Regardless, that's no reason to buy an Apple TV now.
I mean my computer is perfectly capable of being an IPTV box too, but that's not going to happen either.

Microsoft is trying to make Windows the IPTV 'box' with Vista + Media Center.

I have to also disagree about them not pre-announcing stuff. They did for the Apple TV itself, and even more for the iPhone-especially important since they have to partner with someone for that too.

Yet the content deals have not been pre-announced before availability.

Also, re-read my posts, and realize I didn't say these were reasons for buying the Apple TV, and once again I point out they are speculation about where I think Apple is trying to go.

Don't read more into my posts than is already there. ;)

Right now, the only reason why I am buying one is it is a reasonable way to get my SD content ripped from DVDs to the TV, so I can put the DVDs away, and make room for my slowly growing HD disc collection (which I have refused to pay more than 20$ a disc for, so I usually wind up waiting for the sales/price cuts on certain discs I want). I have tried other solutions, and half of them aren't nearly as useful. Sure, I lose 5.1 right now, but that is a low priority on TV shows.
 

patrick0brien

macrumors 68040
Oct 24, 2002
3,246
9
The West Loop
I have to also disagree about them not pre-announcing stuff. They did for the Apple TV itself, and even more for the iPhone-especially important since they have to partner with someone for that too.

-Wolfpup

And these examples are a huge exception to Apple's rules. One of the reasons why they made so much news.

Can anyone think of another time Apple made a preannouncement?

/off topic
I see you worked for KPMG consulting ... I'm with bearingpoint now ;-) I've heard some stories on how wild it was back then.

Oh, yeah, lived through the transition period from LLP through becoming Inc and the IPO, then capped it off with the collapse of Andersen - why is that interesting? I was based in Chicago. Funky funky times...
 

Wolfpup

macrumors 68030
Sep 7, 2006
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Microsoft is trying to make Windows the IPTV 'box' with Vista + Media Center.

No they aren't. At least not to my knowledge. They make a DVR solution-by all accounts one of the better ones out there (certainly compared to cable company boxes).

Right now, the only reason why I am buying one is it is a reasonable way to get my SD content ripped from DVDs to the TV, so I can put the DVDs away, and make room for my slowly growing HD disc collection (which I have refused to pay more than 20$ a disc for, so I usually wind up waiting for the sales/price cuts on certain discs I want). I have tried other solutions, and half of them aren't nearly as useful. Sure, I lose 5.1 right now, but that is a low priority on TV shows.

But why but an Apple TV at all? I mean it sounds like you're spending $300 and going through the pain of ripping, just so you can swap movies or shows without physically getting up?

I don't see that a very big market...

-Wolfpup

And these examples are a huge exception to Apple's rules. One of the reasons why they made so much news.

Yes, but they were for the two most recent products, and an IPTV tie in would also pretty much have to be pre-announced if for no other reason than their partner would need it to be pre-announced.
 
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