Why doesn't the camera in the notch on the MacBook Air M2/M3 support Face ID?

[jchap]

As a MacBook Air M2 15-inch user as well as an owner of an iPhone 14 Plus (both which have a camera notch cut into the display area), I really can't understand from a technical perspective why the iPhone 14 supports Face ID, whereas the MacBook Air M2 15-inch does not.

The iPhone 14 Plus does have a slightly thicker body, which I assume could be necessary to house the Face ID mechanism, but isn't it just a matter of having the right software (i.e., an OS-related issue) that can interpret the image? Or perhaps the Face ID image is not decoded or interpreted by iOS/iPadOS at all, but is rather handled by a separate chip for security reasons?

I've also owned various Windows machines like the LG Gram, Lenovo Thinkpad X1 Carbon and Microsoft Surface Laptop, all of which support facial login recognition. None of those machines have a camera notch—the technology is built into the bezels, and those bezels are not too thick to begin with. I really can't see what the issue is for MacBook Airs (and Pros, for that matter).

It's probably my lack of understanding of Apple technology, but I often feel like this is just an artificial limitation imposed by the OS, and not specifically because the MacBook Airs are so "thin".

 

[Allyance]

Because Apple doesn’t use the camera on the iPhone. It uses a separate highly secure system to capture it’s own “image” for face ID. Search the forums for FaceID to get a complete technical explanation.

 

[Elusi]

Windows Hello has a lower barrier of entry. No dot projector required. Attention detection ommited. There’s a requirement for an IR camera though, but that’s it. I believe the numbers are that Hello has a 1 in 100’000 rate of someone fooling it while FaceID is 1 in a million.

To my knowledge the notch in our macbooks currently only houses no other tech than a simple webcam.

 

[jchap]

Because Apple doesn’t use the camera on the iPhone. It uses a separate highly secure system to capture it’s own “image” for face ID. Search the forums for FaceID to get a complete technical explanation.

Thanks. Apple's own support website states that Face ID-compatible iPads and iPhones use a "TrueDepth" camera, which I assume has the IR sensing and detection component built-in. Since MacBook Airs don't have that hardware (yet), that difference alone would seem to explain some things.

Face ID also requires a neural engine, which all Apple silicon MacBook Airs (even the M1) seem to have. So, the major issue is likely that the IR sensing component is not built into the MBAs.

I have to admit, Face ID (and Windows Hello on PCs) is quite convenient. My fingers tend to get dry in the wintertime, thus Touch ID rarely works reliably for me.

 

[ascender]

The required components are too thick to fit in a laptop screen/lid at the moment. I guess they could get round it by having a camera "bump" on the top surface, but that's not very "Apple".

I'd love FaceID on Macs, but I guess the Studio Display is the only place they could put the tech at the moment.

 

[Isamilis]

As a MacBook Air M2 15-inch user as well as an owner of an iPhone 14 Plus (both which have a camera notch cut into the display area), I really can't understand from a technical perspective why the iPhone 14 supports Face ID, whereas the MacBook Air M2 15-inch does not.

The iPhone 14 Plus does have a slightly thicker body, which I assume could be necessary to house the Face ID mechanism, but isn't it just a matter of having the right software (i.e., an OS-related issue) that can interpret the image? Or perhaps the Face ID image is not decoded or interpreted by iOS/iPadOS at all, but is rather handled by a separate chip for security reasons?

I've also owned various Windows machines like the LG Gram, Lenovo Thinkpad X1 Carbon and Microsoft Surface Laptop, all of which support facial login recognition. None of those machines have a camera notch—the technology is built into the bezels, and those bezels are not too thick to begin with. I really can't see what the issue is for MacBook Airs (and Pros, for that matter).

It's probably my lack of understanding of Apple technology, but I often feel like this is just an artificial limitation imposed by the OS, and not specifically because the MacBook Airs are so "thin".

Probably Apple save it for M5 MBA. Just like dual external monitor in M3.

 

[Steve121178]

...so they can introduce it as a feature later. There's no reason my M3 iMac couldn't have FaceID and thickness can't be used as a cheap excuse like it is on a laptop.

 

[deconstruct60]

Thanks. Apple's own support website states that Face ID-compatible iPads and iPhones use a "TrueDepth" camera, which I assume has the IR sensing and detection component built-in. Since MacBook Airs don't have that hardware (yet), that difference alone would seem to explain some things.

Really should go look up previous FaceID discussions . It is not built into the webcam. i suppose can cobtrive it as being built in to the whole assembly in the zone .

Bloomberg: Apple Relaxes Face ID Projector Tolerances

Bloomberg publishes some info about iPhone X depth camera production difficulties: " The 3-D sensor has three key elements: a dot project...

image-sensors-world.blogspot.com

The parts come from different vendors so it is a whole lot of hand waving to say it is “ built in” .

windows “Hello” is typically vastly cheaper and different . Getting very odd normal wavelength video and very good IR video Is tough to do with one camera lens-filter-sensor stack.

Face ID also requires a neural engine, which all Apple silicon MacBook Airs (even the M1) seem to have. So, the major issue is likely that the IR sensing component is not built into the MBAs.

more so than the Neyral engine ( which is a non issue for any standard modern silicon .. even watch has it ) is to have a correct AI/ML model. The size , shape and dot pattern resolution have to map to same parakeets the AI/ML model was trained on ( to get “ monkey see , monkey do” matching . ) Pretty good chance they would need a diffent ”software” also if they want to keep accuracy high.

computers do not sit at the same distance from users as phones and iPads do. There is limited varitibilty in user arm length . ( and more variability if following ergonomics with screen size

the dot projection is quite likely going to diverge at greater distances .

Demonstration of the Functional Principle of a Dot Projector

This Use Cases shows the working principle of a dot projector, including a comparision between an idealized and real design of a diffractive beam splitter.

www.lighttrans.com

That gets you different resolution of surface patterns.


An iPhone/iPad will refuse to do FaceID if the Face is too far away .

“… Face ID works best when the device is arm’s length or less from your face (25–50 cm away from your face). ….”

About Face ID advanced technology - Apple Support

Learn how Face ID helps protect your information on your iPhone and iPad Pro.

support.apple.com

it isn’t just a “works best” thing. Too far away, the phone will complain rather than unlock .

I have to admit, Face ID (and Windows Hello on PCs) is quite convenient. My fingers tend to get dry in the wintertime, thus Touch ID rarely works reliably for me.

There is a balance between convenience and security . “ Hello “ tosses a big chunk of security for convenience .

Most computers are used indoors or at least not out in a Winter blizzard. Similarly, no matter what size the monitor ( 24” , 27” , 32” , 43” , etc) the keyboard does not change position whether using Mini , iMac , Studio , or Mac Pro . Same the the clamshell laptops. ( apple wants to sell the same thing millions of times . Varying dot projectors between Mac/ monitor combos will be more expensive. )

 

[deconstruct60]

...so they can introduce it as a feature later. There's no reason my M3 iMac couldn't have FaceID and thickness can't be used as a cheap excuse like it is on a laptop.

The iMac is “iPad” like thin. Not a major factor but a contributing one. FaceID does not show up on low-mid range iPads. A substantive part of the “reason” is costs. The iMac uses a completely non standard display which doesn’t keep costs down. Studio Display is in a similar boat ( end user cost out of range with competing monitor ) .

Also the dot projection dispersal issue outlined above. ( and again custom projecyptrs for desktops going to cost more ) .

edit: fixed a missing 'not'. FaceID shows up on high end iPads (which support higher bill of material costs). So far same thing is true for iPhone. (go to bottom of line up and FaceID disappears. )

 

[Steve121178]

The iMac is “iPad” like thin. Not a major factor but a contributing one. FaceID does show up on low-mid range iPads. A substantive part of the “reason” is costs. The iMac uses a completely non standard display which doesn’t keep costs down. Studio Display is in a similar boat ( end user cost out of range with competing monitor ) .

Also the dot projection dispersal issue outlined above. ( and again custom projecyptrs for desktops going to cost more ) .

Not sure I quite follow. The iMac uses a 16:9 panel, so it's very much a standard display although it's a little more higher quality than the rubbish you find on a $250 monitor, but no different to what the likes of Dell would use on their high end displays. FaceID can easily be done on the iMac, even if it was a reverse notch like you see on some Lenovo laptops/screens but Apple chooses not to. I guess they don't want the iMac having it over the MacBook Pros as it will just make them look even more silly with the notch that doesn't do FaceID.

 

[ascender]

For a long time their laptops have been their biggest selling computers, so it wouldn't be a good look for them to have it in the iMac but not the MacBook Pro for example. I do wonder if they'll finally put it in to the next XDR and/or Studio Display though.

 

[deconstruct60]

Not sure I quite follow. The iMac uses a 16:9 panel, so it's very much a standard display although it's a little more higher quality than the rubbish you find on a $250 monitor, but no different to what the likes of Dell would use on their high end displays.

Care to point to the 24" Dell ( or anyone else) display that they sell with the same resolution. Pixel density and backlight tech is going to be far more substantive to costs than ratio. 16:9 is largely just misdirection.

Nobody else is using that "4.5K" panel. That impacts economies of scale.

FaceID can easily be done on the iMac,

The highly relevant issue is can they do it at the same cost parameters as the iMac sells at. There is "no reason" the iMac case can't be made out of gold. Is anyone going to buy it though? ( the Gold Apple Watch is dead not for 'possible technology' reasons. )

The iMac has much less privilege protection from fratricide now. The MBA , MBP , and Mini all use the same Mn SoC . Some folks who put "all-in-one" as their top priority will still buy it of force the price up, but Apple doesn't get to herd non all-in-one priority folks into the "king of the desktop" iMac product category anymore. Price is going to be more relevant now.

even if it was a reverse notch like you see on some Lenovo laptops/screens but Apple chooses not to. I guess they don't want the iMac having it over the MacBook Pros as it will just make them look even more silly with the notch that doesn't do FaceID.

The MBP get Mn Pro and Mn Max SoCs. The iMac doesn't. They don't "need" some kind of artificial FaceID gap to unleveled the competition between the two product lines.

They already put a 'biometric' bundled with the iMac .... the Magic Keyboard (with TouchID). [ which is a "better all-in-one-box' " than the other desktops where have to buy that separately. ]. This has exceedingly little to do with the laptops ( which also get TouchID by default at this point) and far more to do with uniformity across the desktop line-up.

There are no "headless"/screenless FaceID Apple products variants. In the Mac product line, there are headless models. If Apple wants one solution that works across the whole Mac line up ... which path do they take? You may not like the reason, but there is no rational to make up other motivations about the MBP laptop segmenting. The MBP is already substantially segmented away .



P.S. A telling issue on costs will get clearer when (and 'if') Apple pushes FaceID down to the SE4. If the SE4 stays at the same cost with no major other compromises then the FaceID module isn't a BOM cost player. If the costs go up, then it is likely is. Similar with lower end iPads.

 

[TheWraith]

There's also the problem of diminishing returns—a laptop has a keyboard, where your hands go, so touch ID there makes all kinds of sense and conveinence. The only thing gained by going FaceID on a laptop is...well, just that the notch would 'make more sense', because now it also does FaceID, but it would still be a notch. Plus the expense of the face ID components.

It would be better to have no notches, but I can't say the notches on my laptop or my phone are really ever bugging me in actual practice.

 

[deconstruct60]

There's also the problem of diminishing returns—a laptop has a keyboard, where your hands go, so touch ID there makes all kinds of sense and conveinence. The only thing gained by going FaceID on a laptop is...well, just that the notch would 'make more sense', because now it also does FaceID, but it would still be a notch. Plus the expense of the face ID components.

FaceID takes several sensors and emitters to implement. The laptop notch would make a bit more sense if more folks know what the sensors were doing. Apple has an light sensor just for Truetone work. But most folks don't even realize it is even there (the colors adjust to light in part to make color shifts go away as opposed to do something overt/new. ). Ambient light sensor also.

Apple MacBook Pro's notch houses more than just a 1080p camera

Apple's decision to include a notch in the new MacBook Pros has created divided opinion, but the notch area houses more than just a 1080p camera. It is not clear whether Apple could've managed the same apparatus within the bezel itself similar to Windows laptops, but the larger camera sensor may...

www.notebookcheck.net

The notch is there in large part because of the ongoing 'war' on bezels. There are sensors (multiple) that need to be on the edge of the screen and a huge push to take away the edge of the screen. So end up with a notch. The phone manages smaller/multi-use TrueTone/Ambient sensors, but likely fewer folks doing color sensitive work on the iPhone screen. Somewhat a different color space to manage.


TouchID on the Mac in earlier forms never was part of the bezel so it is not caught in the bezel 'war' on those systems. "Overlaying" TouchID with the power button consumes no additional space. (never going to get caught up in the bezel / edge / thinness 'war' ... always going to need a way to turn the device on/off. ) On the original TouchID/Home bottom on iPhone, it was different location than the power button. ( and the 'retreat' there has been to the power button iPad 10th gen , iPad Air.

TouchID doesn't require multiple illuminators. It can be condensed into a much smaller space on the device.
And also inherently cheaper because doesn't have multiple subcomponents.

It would be better to have no notches, but I can't say the notches on my laptop or my phone are really ever bugging me in actual practice.

The "Holy Grail" is to put all the illuminators and sensors under/inbetween the screen pixels. I'm still skeptical as to whether the additional cost and sensor resolution trade-offs are going to be worth that. But that would make the bezel and notch fanatics happy.