Other Will the 2018 iPhones Address Throttling with Hardware Changes?

[essential]

The iPhone 6 Plus had the bendgate issue pretty quickly after release. I have a launch iPhone 6 Plus, and when the bending articles came out and I checked mine, it was already bent. Apple said there was no issue, and only 9 people reported the problem or something like that, while the issue seemed to be much more widespread online. Apple even started replacing bent iPhones under warranty. Whether or not Apple thought there was an issue with bending on the iPhone 6 Plus, the iPhone 6s Plus casing was altered to address the bending issue.

Fast forward to now and all the throttling news coming out. No matter where you stand on the issue of whether Apple was right or wrong in what they did, or if it was more a lack of communication issue, or a hardware issue, we don't need to get into that again in this thread, that argument is ongoing in many threads already. What I'm wondering is if people think Apple will make any hardware changes in the upcoming iPhones (2018 and future) so throttling won't be an issues in them going forward. Whether it be larger batteries, better batteries, lower CPU speeds (so even degraded batteries can provide the same power required over time as day one), or anything like that. Or do you think throttling is just a part of the iOS code going forward and every new iPhone going forward is going to be subject to throttling as the battery ages?

Edit:
I only brought up the iPhone 6 issue to show that Apple did make a change based on something they originally claimed wasn't an issue.

Sourcing:
https://www.macrumors.com/2015/08/10/iphone-6s-addresses-bendgate-video/
Apple Addresses 'Bendgate' By Strengthening Weak Points of 'iPhone 6s' Shell
2015/08/10

http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-replacing-bent-iphone-6-2014-9
Apple Will Start Replacing Bent iPhones
2014/09/25

 

[newellj]

Unless someone comes up with something really creative (more creative than selectively slowing down peak CPU demands on the battery), it's hard to see what the hardware change would be. The issue right now is the limits of lithium batteries.

Maybe Apple could run the phones on mini hydrogen fuel cells...

 

[orev]

I'd rather have a phone that has high performance and then simply be informed when the battery/cpu is degraded and I can make the choice to replace the battery, than to always have a slower phone. I can see how most consumers would not accept that though, so Apple would probably have to go with a slower phone when sold so the speed remains consistent for more of its life.

 

[JPack]

Nikkei: Apple to design power chips in-house as early as 2018: Sources

Apple is designing its own main power management chips for use in iPhones as early as in 2018, cutting dependence on Dialog Semiconductor, according to industry sources, as shares in the U.K. developer plunged as much as 19% in afternoon trade in Frankfurt.

The main power management chip controls an iPhone's charging function, battery management, and energy consumption. "Based on Apple's current plan, they are set to replace partially, or around half of its power management chips to go into iPhones by itself starting next year," said the source.

Apple's new in-house power management chip would be the most advanced in the industry, according to the sources, and could have processing capabilities that allow it to better monitor and control power consumption among various components. That means iPhone users could expect devices capable of delivering better performance on lower power consumption.

The question is not if but rather when. Their own chips could allow Apple to more intelligently manage power such as reducing display brightness, refresh, or radio performance.

 

[Vermifuge]

Apple can't change chemistry. Unless a major development in battery technology is made you can expect this from ANY consumed battery.

FYI my launch day 6 Plus has never had a bending issue. Yes I have videos, but those scenarios are more of an exaggeration than a rule.

 

[cynics]

I feel throttling will be always be a thing moving forward. Better tech may make it less noticeable though.

The problem (IMO anyway) is the capacity of the battery. For heavy users the problem gets exponentially worse very quickly, use it more, charge it more, cause more wear, so you have to charge it even more, causing even more wear....

Smarter energy management like mentioned above will help.

A lot of people dont know this but certain functions and features require power even if they are toggled off. Bluetooth is a reasonable example, power difference between bluetooth turned off and just not using it is negligible. This is because the tech has advanced enough to function similarly and only sip power when not being used. Its integral of the logic board and can share functionality. However if you actually physically cut power too it there is the potential for tangible battery gains.

I've learn this from the Android modding community. For example, physically removing LTE chips (back where there were 2 radios one for 3g another for LTE) would conserve HOURS of standby compared to it being turned off in settings. LTE was the most notable because it was new tech and no where near as advanced as it is now. But it wasn't limited to just that, USB power sources, bluetooth etc...

 

[barjam]

No, this is a good technical solution. They only screwed up on how they disclosed it.

 

[newellj]

No, this is a good technical solution. They only screwed up on how they disclosed it.

I think I'm surprised to read someone saying that, but I basically agree. The throttling affects real-world use for most users in momentary ways that are highly unlikely to affect the user experience and are infinitely better than having sudden shutdowns because the demands of silicon tech far outpace the resources of energy tech. But Apple was consistently un-transparent about what they were doing to deal with this and now has pissed even more people off by offering to fix the problem for $29 without having even a trace of the ability to actually deliver.

I'm glad it's just a phone. If this kind of stuff was going on with my wife, I'd be wondering about significant changes in our relationship.

 

[Jimmy James]

I've never had an unexpected battery related shut down before Apple started throttling. And I've used a couple of phones heavily for several years. And I've played CPU intensive games and watched video that required heavy software decoding. Why are my phones not shutting down?

If the users on the forum are an indication, Apple should throttle more to help you more.

 

[Smartass]

The only real factor here is wether Apple will continue to sell iPhones with faulty and questionable quality batteries in the future. Certain iPhone 7's are already experiencing throttling and i'm guessing the 8 and X will be the same in one year.

It really doesnt look good for apple at the moment.

 

[jav6454]

The iPhone 6 Plus had the

[...]

Every iteration of hardware fixes the fault of the previous one. However, batteries are a technology that have not seen a jump in R&D that would mitigate the issue. In most likelyhood, Apple will just give you the option between throttled and unthrottled.

 

[Newtons Apple]

Apple needs to give us an approved battery testing app and the ability to throttle or not. It should be in our control.

Also Apple needs to make their devices a little more thick so we can get a larger battery inside the case.

 

[orev]

Apple can't change chemistry. Unless a major development in battery technology is made you can expect this from ANY consumed battery.

FYI my launch day 6 Plus has never had a bending issue. Yes I have videos, but those scenarios are more of an exaggeration than a rule.

Your comment echoes many of the battery-gate denier comments and tactics. Battery chemistry has nothing to do with this discussion. The discussion is about: 1) Should Apple design devices that have better tolerances so when the battery life inevitably goes down, it is still within optimal limits; and 2) Apple needs to notify people when the battery has degraded to a point where the phone needs to be throttled. Both of these items address the limitations of physics, they do not try to change them.

 

[Vermifuge]

Your comment echoes many of the battery-gate denier comments and tactics. Battery chemistry has nothing to do with this discussion. The discussion is about: 1) Should Apple design devices that have better tolerances so when the battery life inevitably goes down, it is still within optimal limits; and 2) Apple needs to notify people when the battery has degraded to a point where the phone needs to be throttled. Both of these items address the limitations of physics, they do not try to change them.

Topic: "Will the 2018 iPhones Address Throttling with Hardware Changes?"

Reply: "Unless a major development in battery technology is made you can expect this from ANY consumed battery."

My comments have everything to do with the thread title. Please do not decide what I am allowed or not allowed to post so long as I am within the rules governing this forum discussion.

 

[newellj]

Your comment echoes many of the battery-gate denier comments and tactics. Battery chemistry has nothing to do with this discussion. The discussion is about: 1) Should Apple design devices that have better tolerances so when the battery life inevitably goes down, it is still within optimal limits; and 2) Apple needs to notify people when the battery has degraded to a point where the phone needs to be throttled. Both of these items address the limitations of physics, they do not try to change them.

I agree with #2, but the only way to address #1 right now without Apple's fix is to slow down the silicon -all the time-. The real world penalty of Apple's solution is, for nearly everyone nearly all the time, negligible. I'm not defending Apple. I'm just trying not to wish away the current state of materials tech.

 

[conifer]

What about putting a higher capacity battery in the phones? I thought they only throttle if below an absolute level, hence the plus version is less affected and iPads not at all.

 

[barjam]

No, this was a perfectly reasonable engineering solution. The only failure here was a marketing/disclosure issue. Once there is a battery lifetime display in settings this issue will be put to bed as far as I am concerned.

 

[conifer]

No, this was a perfectly reasonable engineering solution. The only failure here was a marketing/disclosure issue. Once there is a battery lifetime display in settings this issue will be put to bed as far as I am concerned.

I am not feeling the same way. If the phone speed is throttled after a year or so to the speed of one generation or two generations back, I would think long and hard about the dollar premium for one year's service. I think the whole price situation has to be carefully thought out--with the other new features carrying more of the weight than perhaps they did in the past.

 

[deferredAnon]

I think it is going to be part of iOS indefinitely. But Apple has one month to change their mind.

Can’t trust someone having too much leverage over your device.

 

[44267547]

Can’t trust someone having too much leverage over your device.

If you can't trust Apple, which I'm assuming referring to when you said "Someone", then why don't you move onto another smart phone manufacture that you do trust? Why stay with the company that you clearly feel that has leverage on you? If I feel that way, I certainly wouldn't stay with the company or support them with my money in their productline. Although my experiences are contrary to yours.

 

[nicksti]

Topic: "Will the 2018 iPhones Address Throttling with Hardware Changes?"

Reply: "Unless a major development in battery technology is made you can expect this from ANY consumed battery."

My comments have everything to do with the thread title. Please do not decide what I am allowed or not allowed to post so long as I am within the rules governing this forum discussion.

But a major development in battery technology is not the only way to address throttling.

To make a car analogy:

You just bought an iCar that is advertised to have 300 horsepower. As the engine wears it cannot handle 300hp without experiencing undesirable effects like shutting down while in operation, so your iCar's engine management reduces your iCar to 200hp.

If the engine cannot take 300hp for a reasonable period of ownership the solution is to give the driver 200hp (or closer to it) at the very start.

At the very least it is a problem that Apple spends significant time advertising and educating us on how fast the CPU is while this will not be the case for very long.

 

[Falhófnir]

I'd rather have a phone that has high performance and then simply be informed when the battery/cpu is degraded and I can make the choice to replace the battery, than to always have a slower phone. I can see how most consumers would not accept that though, so Apple would probably have to go with a slower phone when sold so the speed remains consistent for more of its life.

100% agree, all they need to do is have a note pop up saying ‘battery now sufficiently degraded for throttling to take effect’ and maybe a battery health note in settings like on MacOS saying “condition: normal” or “replace soon” etc. Just be honest about what’s going on and let the consumer make the choice.

 

[Vermifuge]

But a major development in battery technology is not the only way to address throttling.

To make a car analogy:

You just bought an iCar that is advertised to have 300 horsepower. As the engine wears it cannot handle 300hp without experiencing undesirable effects like shutting down while in operation, so your iCar's engine management reduces your iCar to 200hp.

If the engine cannot take 300hp for a reasonable period of ownership the solution is to give the driver 200hp (or closer to it) at the very start.

At the very least it is a problem that Apple spends significant time advertising and educating us on how fast the CPU is while this will not be the case for very long.

Without regular scheduled maintenance your car will loose HP... Even more so if you own an exotic

The cylinder walls can wear down over time, decreasing the compression ratio. This should be very minor though.

Piston rings will wear out, which can increase ring blow by and decrease the effective compression ratio. That'll hurt power, and it'll hurt your PCV system and muck up your oil.

Deposits can form on the piston crown and head/valve surface areas. This'll actually increase your compression ratio a little bit. While that should be a good thing, it can increase the engine's propensity to knock, which will require more spark retard (if your ECU is smart enough) and you'll lose power at the top end. It'll also increase heat transfer to the gas during intake, which will hurt volumetric efficiency. Basically the engine will breathe in less air, so you can burn less fuel, and make less power.

Deposits on the valve seats can cause the valves to fail to seat properly. This can reduce compression as well. Deposits on the intake stems can reduce airflow in the intake, and with it power.

Over time the bearing surfaces on the crank shaft, connecting rods, and other moving parts, can wear down. This may increase the friction between those components, and hurt your power.

The fuel injection systems can get gunked up. This can hurt fuel delivery rates, and fuel distribution and mixing. If you're getting less fuel than you should, it'll hurt power. If the charge is poorly mixed, it'll slow the burn rate and hurt power/efficiency.

The valve system components (cams, lifters, etc) can wear over time and decrease the time between valve opening and closing (lash increases). This again hurts your ability to get air and fuel into the engine every cycle.

 

[JD2015]

The Iphone X is the first new Iphone I bought where I noticed a performance hit. Not sure if it is hardware or software related. However, I notice significant lags with deleting of apps, and slowness of native mail app.

 

[newellj]

I think it is going to be part of iOS indefinitely. But Apple has one month to change their mind.

Can’t trust someone having too much leverage over your device.

You can always flip over to Android, and give *three* companies too much leverage over your device. Apple is far from perfect, but I'd rather deal with one autocrat than three, and over time I like the choices Apple has made better. That doesn't mean I agree with, or like, everything, but the overall mix is better in my opinion. There's always the Android alternative if people see it the other way.
[doublepost=1515850050][/doublepost]

The Iphone X is the first new Iphone I bought where I noticed a performance hit. Not sure if it is hardware or software related. However, I notice significant lags with deleting of apps, and slowness of native mail app.

Whatever the reason, it's *not* throttling on that phone.