Wishful Thinking: WWDC Debuts Second Gen XDR Display

[- rob -]

This thread is to aggregate information that might indicate the debut of a second generation XDR Display, guess at the specs and pricing for the product.

I did a similar thread for what became the Studio Display, and with help from the community here ended up fairly quite close on specs. Albeit nearly two years later than the wishful thinking.

I enjoy speculation like this, though so here's a stub.

I have an initial dive on this in the XDR Pro Display Owner's Thread, focused on potential support for Thunderbolt 5 and ProMotion.

I'll build that in and come up with some initial estimates and fantasy press release in time. Please feel free to chime in if you're tracking this / have links to information that might inform this thread.

Resources:

1. Apple Scales Back High-End Mac Pro Plans - 12/18/22
2. How Apple's Pro Display XDR takes Thunderbolt 3 to its limit - 11/23/23
3. Thunderbolt 5 Docks previewed and shown at CES 2024 - 1/14/24

 

[JimmyG]

When Apple brought the Pro Display XDR (PD XDR, henceforth) to market, it seemed that perhaps they were planting a flag in the world of HDR video and stills photography creation...with the caveat that, this was exclusively for "our high-end, you can afford the cost as a business write-off" user, er, "class". As for their broader consumer user base, there would be XDR iPhones, iPad Pros and Macbook Pros to follow, but no XDR iMac.

And this has caused a problem for Apple with its everyday HDR users looking to graduate from Photos and iMovie and delve into Lightroom and FCP for their HDR workflows, they created a giant and insurmountable "cost chasm" for those looking to create at their desks...Mac Studio with a requisite PD XDR have never been a cost-sensible upgrade path for those without business dollars to spend.

Meanwhile, over in the PC world, folks were finding HDR solutions with various off-the-self HDR displays and using Davinci Resolve...and, to their credit, the folks over at Resolve saw that Tim & Co. were clearly "leaving money on the table" with that demographic, decided to port Resolve over to the Mac to steal both the cash and customers with nary a blink from Apple.

Enter, Flanders Scientific with their "Hollywood grade" monitor lineup announcing the release of an "affordable" (cough) 31.5" Gen. 3 QD-OLED HDR grading monitor with all the requisite I/O for any serious studio HDR folks...

FSI | XMP310

FSI | XMP310

The XMP310 is a 31 inch UHD resolution HDR and SDR reference mastering monitor built around a groundbreaking new QD-OLED panel.

flandersscientific.com

...making them weep with joy...

New Flanders Scientific XMP310 | Lift Gamma Gain - Colorist & Color Grading Forum

New Flanders Scientific XMP310

Just noticed this on the FSI Website https://flandersscientific.com/XMP310/ 31.5" QD-OLED HDR & SDR Reference Display

liftgammagain.com

Then enter, ASUS with their latest 32" Gen.3 QD-OLED, for a 3rd of the cost of the Flanders and half that of the PD XDR with a stand...

ProArt Display PA32UCXR - Tech Specs｜Monitors｜ASUS USA

ProArt Display PA32UCXR - Tech Specs｜Monitors｜ASUS USA

ProArt Display PA32UCXR is a mini LED monitor with 2304-zone dimming, designed for content creators, colorists, filmmakers, video editors, and photographers

www.asus.com

...with proper USB-C/Thunderbolt I/O for the home HDR creative. Aaand...the landscape has dramatically shifted for Apple when it comes an any possible PD XDR successor.

Their current "elite class" PD XDR users have already had to spend all the build-out costs just to get all of their studio I/O to work with Apple's display. Prospective "elite" customers are now looking at an uncluttered solution with the Flanders along with weighing their costs vs PD XDR and all the extra cost to build-out just to get a clean signal over TB3.

But more importantly, the cash cow of everyday HDR users now have far less reason to even consider "going Mac".

And, all of this could have been dramatically different for customers creating in HDR had Apple merely taken their existing MBP XDR tech (no need ot reinvent the wheel) and quad-sized it at the factory and bus-fed it into an M-Series iMac...an elegant all-in-one HDR desktop solution that preempted any need or wait for TB5 I/O. But, hey, I'm not the CEO. LOL

Do I see a need fo Apple to bring out a PD XDR Mark II? Not for my needs, that ASUS Gen. 3 QD-OLED is looking better by the minute. Now if someone will just build an AIO around that display, I'm in!
_______________

EDIT: Corrections: The ASUS QD-OLED display I meant to link to was the...

ROG Swift OLED PG32UCDM | Gaming monitors｜ROG - Republic of Gamers｜ROG USA

ROG Swift OLED PG32UCDM | Gaming monitors｜ROG - Republic of Gamers｜ROG USA

ROG Swift OLED PG32UCDM gaming monitor features a 32-inch 4K QD-OLED panel with 240 Hz refresh rate and 0.03 ms (GTG) response time, along with a custom heatsink to minimize burn-in.

rog.asus.com

...which is 1/5th the cost of PD XDR (with stand) w/TB I/O. The ProArt display originally linked above is also on my list of display contenders and in my haste I posted the incorrect link. Mea Culpa. My comments relating to QD OLED technology vs PD XDR remain unchanged.
_______________

EDIT: Also, I forgot to add my normal disclaimer: I have zero affilations with any products mentioned, links posted for educational/informational use only.

 

[T'hain Esh Kelch]

These are all 4K displays. No way Apple will scale back on resolution.

AUO has several 6k oanels coming out this year, so it is way more likely to use one of those. Or perhaps their 8k panel.

 

[- rob -]

These are all 4K displays. No way Apple will scale back on resolution.

AUO has several 6k oanels coming out this year, so it is way more likely to use one of those. Or perhaps their 8k panel.

Are you referring to panels other than the ones on this list? Do you think Apple would head toward 8K instead of from promotion on 6K?

 

[Zest28]

The economy is not good at the moment, so launching a new $6000 monitor is not the best choice.

It will most likely be in a few years when economy is a bit better.

 

[JimmyG]

These are all 4K displays. No way Apple will scale back on resolution.

>snip<

Back when Apple announced the PD XDR it touted comparisons to 4K $30,000 "studio reference monitors" as a selling point for its $5/6K selling points (inferring 1/6th/1/5th pricing) for their PD XDR products, ergo my referencing FSI and their line of "studio reference monitors" and its new QD OLED display and its built-in I/O and how that, um, "PD XDR savings" had now slimmed to 1/2 product-pricing but near-break-even pricing when one weighs-in the added costs for, er, studio I/O for the PD XDR.

While I agree with you that I think it unlikely that Apple will ever go with a 4K resolution display, my comments were related to Apple's own "studio reference monitors" comparisons. My apologies if I was not clearer in my original post.

 

[T'hain Esh Kelch]

Are you referring to panels other than the ones on this list? Do you think Apple would head toward 8K instead of from promotion on 6K?

TFTCentral has more variants listed. I think they would prefer Promotion, but Apple works in mysterious ways, so…

 

[picpicmac]

The economy is not good at the moment...

Depends where one lives.

In the US at least, unemployment is low, inflation is in check. Many companies are reporting strong results.

Other places in the world will be different. Argentina with inflation, Ukraine with an invasion by Russia, China with a real-estate collapse, etc.

 

[Zest28]

Depends where one lives.

In the US at least, unemployment is low, inflation is in check. Many companies are reporting strong results.

Other places in the world will be different. Argentina with inflation, Ukraine with an invasion by Russia, China with a real-estate collapse, etc.

The companies might be reporting strong results but I am hearing from plenty of people that they are struggling to find high paying jobs.

Also there are layoffs happening for jobs that pay well (big tech in particular).

Low unemployment rate is good, but what good is it if they are not high paying jobs?

 

[sartorius]

How likely do we think this still is?

I have been without an external display since January, and not sure if I can wait until June before pulling the trigger.

But knowing my history with Apple, if I buy the ProDisplay XDR now it will guarantee a WWDC refresh

 

[Lava Lamp Freak]

How likely do we think this still is?

I have been without an external display since January, and not sure if I can wait until June before pulling the trigger.

But knowing my history with Apple, if I buy the ProDisplay XDR now it will guarantee a WWDC refresh

I can relate, as I went as far as starting the checkout process a few weeks ago, but I didn't go through with it due to the possibility that a replacement will be announced soon. I have a Studio Display, though, so I'm not without a display, and I have an order coming on Saturday for a 32" MSI 4K OLED to test.

 

[ascender]

For me, I'd be hoping for an upgrade in panel quality - keep the same resolution, but ideally go higher - if this is possible.

Ideally, they'd add a built-in webcam (4K with centre stage) and speakers. I know at the time the original was released the thinking was that with its intended use cases, a bulit-in webcam would be a security concern and anyone needing speakers would have their own external ones. But I would have thought both things could be added with minimal cost impact.

Re the webcam, FaceID would be a nice addition.

An ultrawide variant would be amazing, but I would be happy with 32" and as we know, Apple don't like doing different sizes of monitors.

I'm not a graphics/photography person though, so it sounds like what I'm describing is a larger, upgraded Studio Display. But as that's not going to happen, I'm really interested to see what happens with the XDR.

 

[PaulD-UK]

If an update is coming its most likely to accompany an M4 Extreme Mac Pro, which is rumoured to be the end of next year.

 

[sartorius]

If an update is coming its most likely to accompany an M4 Extreme Mac Pro, which is rumoured to be the end of next year.

Interesting. Would this be because of a refresh rate change to 120Hz or resolution bump to 8k, do you think?

 

[Lava Lamp Freak]

I doubt the release is being timed to coincide with a particular Mac release. I think it's more likely being planned around supply chain and market variables.

 

[- rob -]

I haven’t spent more time on this, but I’ve noticed some ambient signals in the hub market that suggest higher throughput I/O could be coming.

Could just be too much inventory, or something else. But i think there’s reasonable chance something is coming.

Recall, I was pretty early on my last guess at this though.

 

[ascender]

I guess resolution and I/o are both upgrades you'd expect, but I'd be surprised if it was tied to any new Mac hardware - I'd expect it to be reasonably backwards compatible with recent Max/Ultra chips at least?