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shawnce

macrumors 65816
Jun 1, 2004
1,442
0
This image showing ZFS in what looks like Disk Utility appears to be slightly transparent. If you look closely there are some bullet points. I just opened Disk Utility (not on Leopard) and don't see any transparency in it. What's the explanation for this??? Is Leopard's Disk Utility transparent? Why do I see text in the background? Or is this just some bad photoshop job?
It looks like a standard sheet (hence sightly transparent) that you see in disk utility when you go to create a disk image. Go try it again in Tiger.
 

steelfist

macrumors 6502a
Aug 10, 2005
577
0
although it's good, what matters even more is if microsoft allows apple to access and write ntfs and their new filesystem (dunno if they have or not)
 

Goldfinger

macrumors 6502
Jan 7, 2006
329
73
Belgium
although it's good, what matters even more is if microsoft allows apple to access and write ntfs and their new filesystem (dunno if they have or not)

The problem with this is that NTFS is closed source. And they'd have to reverse engineer it or licensce it.
 

AppliedVisual

macrumors 6502a
Sep 28, 2006
816
317
The problem with this is that NTFS is closed source. And they'd have to reverse engineer it or licensce it.

Yep... NTFS read AND WRITE would sure be useful. But like you say, Microsoft has done little to allow such things on other platforms. They have made available basic licensing so that other platforms can READ NTFS volumes, but that's about it.
 

SPUY767

macrumors 68020
Jun 22, 2003
2,041
131
GA
am i getting this wrong, or could I format my 100GB HD to ZFS and have it store as much data as a 1TB+ HFS drive? If so, then wow. Simply wow.

Basically, OS X has hundreds of thousands of files that only have a few hundred bytes of info or less in them, very tiny. The smnallest allocation block for HFS+ is 4k, correct me if I'm wrong. Now, instead of that 152Byte file taking up 30x the space that it needs to, it may only take up 200Bytes. Make sense, the problem was woprse with old Mac file systems, system 7 had a minimum allocation block of 32k, so your 15 byte text doc saying, "hello there bob" took up 2000x the space that the file actually contained. The real interesting thing is, that the old mac OS used to tell us how much space the file took up on the drive, i.e. the Get Info window would never show a file less than 32k, but OS X tells us only how large the data contained in the file is, not how large the block of data holding the file on the hard drive is.
 

Goldfinger

macrumors 6502
Jan 7, 2006
329
73
Belgium
the Get Info window would never show a file less than 32k, but OS X tells us only how large the data contained in the file is, not how large the block of data holding the file on the hard drive is.

Yes it does. U just made an RTF with the text "bla" in it. Get Info tells me:
4KB on disc (341 bytes).
 

charkshark

macrumors member
Nov 28, 2006
75
0
ZFS is quite feasible for an OS as ahead of it's time as (I believe) leopard will be. It is a very capable file system for the future, and have no problem accepting as the future file-system for Mac OS.
 

SeaFox

macrumors 68030
Jul 22, 2003
2,621
954
Somewhere Else
I was typing fast and misspoke when what I meant to say was only that Old Mac OS would ONLY show the disk size.

No, that's still incorrect. I'm not in front of my Quadra right now, but I remember the Get Info window having a size, and a "size on disk".
 

daveL

macrumors 68020
Jun 18, 2003
2,425
0
Montana
I think that today is possible to include ZFS in Leopard... i explain why

Porting of ZFS for FreeBSD is near complete:

Pawel Jakub Dawidek is manteiner of this porting, in a recent post he write:
"I've almost all file system functions working.
I started to run some heavy file system regression tests. They work."
this from http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=12766&tstart=0

We also knew that zfs can now boot from x86 ZFS machine
http://opensolaris.org/os/project/zfsboot/
Using EFI booting for boot from ZFS i thinks i more simple...

ZFS respect POSIX standard that explain that appz don't need to edit to func with ZFS.

What does you think?
The ZFS Boot project hasn't been updated since the 30th of August. You'll also notice that it's a "hidden" project. The last time it was updated was build 46; the current build is 54 - soon to be 55. Not to mention you have to jump through a bunch of hoops to get build 46 to actually boot off of ZFS. It appears to me that the project has been put on the back burner.

On top of that, there's not much similarity between the boot process on Solaris and the boot process on OS X. I think Apple would have to put some work into ZFS for OS X to be able to boot off of it. However, another approach is to have a small HFS+ boot partition, but install the actual OS in a separate ZFS partition.

Just my 2 cents.
 

Manic Mouse

macrumors 6502a
Jul 12, 2006
943
0
The ZFS Boot project hasn't been updated since the 30th of August. You'll also notice that it's a "hidden" project. The last time it was updated was build 46; the current build is 54 - soon to be 55. Not to mention you have to jump through a bunch of hoops to get build 46 to actually boot off of ZFS. It appears to me that the project has been put on the back burner.

On top of that, there's not much similarity between the boot process on Solaris and the boot process on OS X. I think Apple would have to put some work into ZFS for OS X to be able to boot off of it. However, another approach is to have a small HFS+ boot partition, but install the actual OS in a separate ZFS partition.

Just my 2 cents.

Or have that small boot partition as part of the flash RAM in the new hybrid HDDs.
 

wrldwzrd89

macrumors G5
Jun 6, 2003
12,110
77
Solon, OH
Or have that small boot partition as part of the flash RAM in the new hybrid HDDs.
That would be interesting, but isn't the flash portion of these HDDs meant to be used as an additional cache and not as storage space? If that's true I don't see how your idea could be implemented.
 

sjk

macrumors 6502a
May 2, 2003
826
0
Eugene
I was going nuts while reading this thread on a non-networked PDA and not having a chance to respond until now, especially about this one particular issue:

Not to mention that it's unlikely cameras would be anything other than FAT16/FAT32.
That's the closest anyone's come to what I've been waiting to say …

I originally was going to say "and iPods", but then I realized that might not be a given on the Mac end.
That the iPod may be "on the Mac end" is probably irrelevant.

Unless I missed it what others posts about this seem to be overlooking is that it's the media/storage format, not the device type, that makes the most difference whether or not it's a candidate for being added to a ZFS storage pool.

If you attach a camera, iPod, etc. that's already formatted with FAT32, HFS+, or any other filesystem than ZFS there's no reason for the system to consider it for a ZFS pool(!). And it may trigger an app to open or some other behavior depending on the device and/or format, which I remember being mentioned in this thread but I'm too lazy to find the post(s).

If you attach a device with uninitialized/unformatted media the system might prompt for how to handle it (e.g. give Time Machine permission to use it) or do something automatically.

That simple explanation makes the most sense to me though it's certainly possible I've overlooked something (obvious or not). I really don't see how the presence of ZFS on OS X would radically change how the system currently handles multiple filesystems and storage formats. If anyone knows better please enlighten me/us. :)
 

bob5820

macrumors 6502a
All of the world's printed data (today) would not come close to filling even a 2^64 bytes. 2^128 is larger than 2^64 by a factor of 2^64. I think it is safe to say all of the world's recored data could fit. This is different than storing the state of the Earth. I doubt the state of the Earth could be stored on a device only the size of the Earth, it would need to be larger.
Of course you could save about 2^32 by boiling off the oceans first :D
 

weldon

macrumors 6502a
May 22, 2004
642
0
Denver, CO
I love that ZFS is opensource. How great would it be if someone were to write rock-solid ZFS support for Windows XP and Vista. Then we could have shared volumes between OS X and Windows (Boot Camp or virtualization) that supported multimedia files (>4GB) w/o hacky software that doesn't work at times.
 

tyr2

macrumors 6502a
May 6, 2006
826
217
Leeds, UK
Just came across this article showing zfs from the command line on Leopard.

All the stuff like 'zpool create' etc.. appear to be there. Just seems to have to dig a bit deeper than 'disk utility' to get to the good stuff.
 
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