Apple Rivals Unite to Promote Open Ecosystems Using EU Law

[Realityck]

Again, you are making that up. When did they file a legal challenge that was unsuccessful in which the sought to avoid adding the ability to sideload?

Reference so called making up news online Nov 17th 2023

Apple Files Legal Challenge to EU's Digital Markets Act

US News is a recognized leader in college, grad school, hospital, mutual fund, and car rankings. Track elected officials, research health conditions, and find news you can use in politics, business, health, and education.

money.usnews.com

LONDON (Reuters) -Apple has filed a legal case contesting decisions taken by the European Commission under its recently-introduced Digital Markets Act, according to a post shared by the Court of Justice of the European Union on X.

is anything on X trustworthy with no document or source?

While details of Apple's legal challenge have not been made public, Bloomberg News reported last week the company would challenge the inclusion of its App Store on the list of gatekeepers.

Again no actual evidence, and Boomberg article says really nothing factual

Apple did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

Why would they if nothing is in writing online? As the news above stated:

The requested information regarding the App Store and Google Play must be provided to the Commission by 15 January 2024. Based on the assessment of the replies, the Commission will assess next steps.

So yes this is akin to sheer speculation on this topic.

 

[mike2q]

I almost wish apple would release Apple Pay, Siri, Safari, iMessage, Facetime, and a completely fully featured Apple music and Apple tv app to Android.

Not because Android users deserve it. Only to make all these other companies mad when Android users use Apple services instead. Android users claim that Apple is locking us in. Might as well lock in the android fanboys too.

Sure, that would be a great idea that would literally solve half of the issues. I think you're odd for assigning 'deserving' to a persons consumer product choice but there I digress. Back to the point, yes if Apple offered interoperability with other products we would all be better off.

 

[mike2q]

No one should be gatekeeping because then the governements are having way too much power and the power should be in the hands of the people. That is in fact democracy.

Seriously? You are throwing around so many incompatible ideas that it would be funny if it wasn't so terrifying. In the above quip alone you reference taking power from the government to place it in the hands of the people by handing the power to a three trillion dollar for profit corporation. How is that power to the people? In a proper democracy the government is literally the power of the people. Apples entire goal is to make as much money as possible in as many ways as possible. There is no other incentive for them and therefore they have no other goal. Mega corporations controlling everything is in fact NOT a democracy.

 

[mike2q]

And apple is not breaking the law by not bringing iMessage to Android nor not allowing 3rd party stores.

If the EU decides otherwise then they are in fact breaking the law. That's how laws work.

 

[BaldiMac]

Reference so called making up news online Nov 17th 2023

Apple Files Legal Challenge to EU's Digital Markets Act

US News is a recognized leader in college, grad school, hospital, mutual fund, and car rankings. Track elected officials, research health conditions, and find news you can use in politics, business, health, and education.

money.usnews.com

is anything on X trustworthy with no document or source?

Again no actual evidence, and Boomberg article says really nothing factual

Why would they if nothing is in writing online? As the news above stated:

So yes this is akin to sheer speculation on this topic.

All your own evidence shows that you are wrong. You said "Apple filed legal challenges against the EU law and when unsuccessful, eventually decided they will comply instead of trying to fight it further."

That sequence of events never happened. All they did is file a the legal challenge.

And that is after you shifted the goalposts from your original claim that Apple was already violating with respect to sideloading.

 

[Realityck]

All your own evidence shows that you are wrong. You said "Apple filed legal challenges against the EU law and when unsuccessful, eventually decided they will comply instead of trying to fight it further."

That sequence of events never happened. All they did is file a the legal challenge.

And that is after you shifted the goalposts from your original claim that Apple was already violating with respect to sideloading.

I only showed this legal challenge news trail led to nothing factual, only speculative on whats going on. Whats this post have to do with fighting it further and side loading? Are you confusing me with someone else you are posting to?

 

[BaldiMac]

I only showed this news trail led to nothing factual, only speculative on whats going on. Whats this post have to do with fighting it further and side loading? Are you confusing me with someone else you are posting to?

Sorry! I assumed that you were the poster that I was having that conversation with.

I was aware of the recent legal challenge. It was posted here on MacRumors. What I was calling made up is the sequence of events that the poster I responded to claimed.

 

[boss.king]

No they are only advocating for the short term to try and weaken Apple because they are unable to compete with hopes this benefits them in the long run.

Like I said, they can advocate all they like, they still don't make the laws.

 

[Abazigal]

Your statement: or pirate like most android users do.

Again, since you made the claim, it is up to YOU to prove your claim is true, not for others to prove false. Saying "look at the Play Store itself" is not evidence. Either post some evidence to back up your claim that "most Android users pirate" or admit you made an inaccurate generalization.

I can offer one, though it’s from 10 years ago.

Hit mobile game Monument Valley and piracy: ‘Only 5%’ of Android players paid for it

Even with a high piracy rate, Ustwo says it isn't complaining.

venturebeat.com

The company said that 95 percent of the people playing the game on Google’s mobile operating system did not buy it — although, Ustwo did explain that a small number of those installs are legitimate and were not illegally downloaded.

The implication is that apps tend to be less profitable on android due to a combination of higher piracy rates and a lower inclination to pay.

 

[DownUnderDan]

What is obvious here is that the top tech firms in the world are all US based. Yet, of course, they go to the Marxist EU to try and reign in Apple because the capitalist system that made them successful in the first place isn’t giving them the competitive advantage on a silver platter.

The customer should be the ultimate decider, not some overpaid government bureaucrat.

I think the other obvious thing here is you have no idea what Marxism actually is. Probably best to leave it out of any future comments unless you can genuinely see a connection as its undermines your whole point. I think a better description of what you were trying to say is the EU is antitrust and that you feel some US based companies are rather cynically using the EU position for their benefit. As to who should be the decider of multinational corporate law and regulation, I think you will find you have a very US centric view that is not that common outside of your country and if you wish to trade in other parts of the world, then understandably US corporations need to align with the sovereign rules of each nation or union in the case of the EU. How much any bureaucrat is paid is irrelevant to the topic and conjecture anyway as I doubt either of us would be qualified to answer it.

 

[MacProFCP]

I think the other obvious thing here is you have no idea what Marxism actually is. Probably best to leave it out of any future comments unless you can genuinely see a connection as its undermines your whole point. I think a better description of what you were trying to say is the EU is antitrust and that you feel some US based companies are rather cynically using the EU position for their benefit.

Wow. I find it funny when personal assumptions are made. This is what the internet is all about. 🤣

 

[webkit]

No, it's not. Your original claim is that the were violating EU law and the eventually decided to relent. They were not violating the law since the requirement has not yet gone into affect.

They were violating the law as it was written which is why they've been trying to challenge.

Again, you are making that up. When did they file a legal challenge that was unsuccessful in which the sought to avoid adding the ability to sideload?

If they haven't been unsuccessful then in what ways have they been successful in arguing things like they shouldn't have gatekeeper status, Safari is three separate browsers, etc.?

 

[Technerd108]

I literally did not make any point for you.

DO you think the average consumer is thinking of things like E2EE? You guys keep throwing that around but you are only thinking of yourself aka people who know what that is.
To the average consumer (we are using America) they simply want to text.

IMessage was created long before RCS was mainstream and Apple has every right to make and keep it for their platform. Just like BBM with Blackberry.

Sure, apple should evolve their messaging protocol but not at the expense of their product or their customerbase who are really not affected. It's an android issue since android fanboys are the ones complaining.

I am a part of their customer base and I am complaining.

Just because I don't have an iPhone now doesn't mean I never will again. A lot of iPhone users have friends and family with Android devices and I am sure they are affected by the way things are now.

Really, iMrssage was created blah, blah... So was iOS and MacOS, and Windows and Android and every software on the planet not released in the year or two. Software updates and improves over time. You don't keep using outdated protocols because you created software a long time ago??

I think the average consumer thinks it is secure as it is now and would be very shocked to know every time they text an Android phone they lose their encryption and security. Those that do know that aren't Apple fan boys don't like it.

You literally missed the point.

 

[scorpio vega]

Your statement: or pirate like most android users do.

Again, since you made the claim, it is up to YOU to prove your claim is true, not for others to prove false. Saying "look at the Play Store itself" is not evidence. Either post some evidence to back up your claim that "most Android users pirate" or admit you made an inaccurate generalization.

I didnt make a generalization. I literally directed the user to where i found my information (since i cant link specifc links that would go against MR terms of service). Was not that difficult to find within a 2 min search.

believe me, i have no issue proving android fans wrong when given the opportunity.

Apple is even competing with small independent apps on the app store example the new journaling app they're giving it for free because they're too big and they can afford it. Now small journaling apps must spend more money and more resources to compete against a free app that comes pre-installed on every up-to-date iPhone. As per governments intervention, it’s the mess they’ve created. The bigger the government the larger in size businesses have become.

SO no apple shouldnt make their own first party apps because its unfair to the independent ones lol. got you.

Sure, that would be a great idea that would literally solve half of the issues. I think you're odd for assigning 'deserving' to a persons consumer product choice but there I digress. Back to the point, yes if Apple offered interoperability with other products we would all be better off.

I mean i brought an iPhone and other apple products for their services so i actually DESERVE to use it more so than someone who did not and is hacking into it. It's actually offensive to actual IOS users.

Seriously? You are throwing around so many incompatible ideas that it would be funny if it wasn't so terrifying. In the above quip alone you reference taking power from the government to place it in the hands of the people by handing the power to a three trillion dollar for profit corporation. How is that power to the people? In a proper democracy the government is literally the power of the people. Apples entire goal is to make as much money as possible in as many ways as possible. There is no other incentive for them and therefore they have no other goal. Mega corporations controlling everything is in fact NOT a democracy.

The market has actually chosen to use mostly Android (just like they have chosen to use mostly window. So yes, the people have chosen and for those who have chosen not to conform to Android first mentality, the EU is actually hurting us by stifling or trying to stifle what made IOS the choice we chose,

I chose IOS because it was not Android and Apple certainly is the complete opposite of what Google is doing. The fact Android fanboys want IOS/Apple to be open the way Android is sickening and scary to say the least.

 

[scorpio vega]

I think the average consumer thinks it is secure as it is now and would be very shocked to know every time they text an Android phone they lose their encryption and security. Those that do know that aren't Apple fan boys don't like it.

The average consumer does not care as much about Privacy as power users who are on MR and other enthusiasts sites do.
If so they wouldnt be using Google lmao.

The average consumer simply wants what is easiest to work.

 

[Naraxus]

I didnt make a generalization. I literally directed the user to where i found my information (since i cant link specifc links that would go against MR terms of service). Was not that difficult to find within a 2 min search.

You: or pirate like most android users do

Also you: A simple google search also brought a subreddit with nearly 2 million active users dedicated to specifically Android piracy.

The Android user base is currently sitting at 3.6 billion. As you can see 2 million ≠ "most". Since you are unwilling to provide any sort of evidence outside of "do your own research" to debate further with you is pointless.

 

[theotherphil]

Apple Open Source

 

[scorpio vega]

You: or pirate like most android users do

Also you: A simple google search also brought a subreddit with nearly 2 million active users dedicated to specifically Android piracy.

The Android user base is currently sitting at 3.6 billion. As you can see 2 million ≠ "most". Since you are unwilling to provide any sort of evidence outside of "do your own research" to debate further with you is pointless.

Not sure what you are trying to debate when i literally said google. You are trying to debate the fact i wont link because i am not breaking MR rules. So at this point you literally are trying to debate to debate and i'm bored with it.

 

[ozaz]

Not sure what you are trying to debate when i literally said google. You are trying to debate the fact i wont link because i am not breaking MR rules. So at this point you literally are trying to debate to debate and i'm bored with it.

Outside of their use for self-promotion/advertising there is no rule against the use of links. In fact, the use of links and provision of sources is encouraged in the forum rules. Telling members to search for themselves is actually against the rules as is name calling (which includes referring to people as fanboys). It seems to me you repeatedly disregard these rules.

Forum Rules

Jump to: Instantly Bannable Offenses | Advertising/Self-promotion | Things Not to Do | Minor Problems The following rules govern use of the forums. You are also responsible for observing the Regist...

macrumors.zendesk.com

MacRumors Rules for Appropriate Debate

These rules and guidelines describe the acceptable and unacceptable ways to participate in a discussion in a MacRumors forum thread. These rules augment and clarify the general Forum Rules. Guideli...

macrumors.zendesk.com

 

[scorpio vega]

Outside of their use for self-promotion/advertising there is no rule against the use of links. In fact, the use of links and provision of sources is encouraged in the forum rules. Telling members to search for themselves is actually against the rules as is name calling (which includes referring to people as fanboys). It seems to me you repeatedly disregard these rules.

Forum Rules

Jump to: Instantly Bannable Offenses | Advertising/Self-promotion | Things Not to Do | Minor Problems The following rules govern use of the forums. You are also responsible for observing the Regist...

macrumors.zendesk.com

MacRumors Rules for Appropriate Debate

These rules and guidelines describe the acceptable and unacceptable ways to participate in a discussion in a MacRumors forum thread. These rules augment and clarify the general Forum Rules. Guideli...

macrumors.zendesk.com

Fanboys is not an insult lol. You make seem as if i attacked someone's character and it is a word that is used regularly on MR by both Android and IOS fanboys/girls. If it makes you feel better, I will call myself an iphone fangirl. Better now?

In regards to telling someone to go to google, yes you are technically right that telling someone to go search is TECHNICALLY against the rules. However, in the context of me teling them to go search, I am doing it as to not break another rule (one that appears to be a bit more serious since it promotes illegal activities).

Since you did link the rules so kindly, thank you, if you scroll down you will see I can't actually link to any of the sites because the sites I was referring to infact promote warez and illegal downloads/piracy which is a rule on Macrumors

1. Warez/Serials/Keys. Do not post software serial numbers or keys or refer people to specific websites, software, or techniques whose purpose is to break or bypass software licensing methods, distribute cracks, or obtain or use commercial software or media in violation of its license and/or for copyright violation. Do not ask for or give such help.

This was copied and pasted from the link of the rules that you posted. Hence why I"broke" the rule by saying they can do as i did and search.

Is there anything else or can we let this back and forth die and move back onto the topic at hand?

 

[ozaz]

Fanboys is not an insult lol. You make seem as if i attacked someone's character and it is a word that is used regularly on MR by both Android and IOS fanboys/girls. If it makes you feel better, I will call myself an iphone fangirl. Better now?

In regards to telling someone to go to google, yes you are technically right that telling someone to go search is TECHNICALLY against the rules. However, in the context of me teling them to go search, I am doing it as to not break another rule (one that appears to be a bit more serious since it promotes illegal activities).

Since you did link the rules so kindly, thank you, if you scroll down you will see I can't actually link to any of the sites because the sites I was referring to infact promote warez and illegal downloads/piracy which is a rule on Macrumors

1. Warez/Serials/Keys. Do not post software serial numbers or keys or refer people to specific websites, software, or techniques whose purpose is to break or bypass software licensing methods, distribute cracks, or obtain or use commercial software or media in violation of its license and/or for copyright violation. Do not ask for or give such help.

This was copied and pasted from the link of the rules that you posted. Hence why I"broke" the rule by saying they can do as i did and search.

Is there anything else or can we let this back and forth die and move back onto the topic at hand?

What back and forth? That was the first post I made in this thread and am pretty sure the first post I've ever directed to you relating to forum rules.

Calling people fanboys/fangirls is insulting. It's also specifically highlighted as an example of an insult in the forum rules. Just because it's widely used, and some people are happy to re-appropriate it to describe themselves, doesn't make it alright.

Fair enough on not linking directly to sites that actually promote piracy. But on this point, I wouldn't consider the existence sites that promote or facilitate piracy as evidence that "most" Android users engage in piracy. This is the claim you made that others are arguing against (I don't think anyone is arguing that piracy doesn't exist). What would be useful here is for you to provide a link to a formal study or an article from a respected news outlet (since you made the claim in the first place).

 

[scorpio vega]

What back and forth? That was the first post I made in this thread and am pretty sure the first post I've ever directed to you relating to forum rules.

Calling people fanboys/fangirls is insulting. It's also specifically highlighted as an example of an insult in the forum rules. Just because it's widely used, and some people are happy to re-appropriate it to describe themselves, doesn't make it alright.

Fair enough on not linking directly to sites that actually promote piracy. But on this point, I wouldn't consider the existence sites that promote or facilitate piracy as evidence that "most" Android users engage in piracy. This is the claim you made that others are arguing against (I don't think anyone is arguing that piracy doesn't exist). What would be useful here is for you to provide a link to a formal study or an article from a respected news outlet (since you made the claim in the first place).

I will copy and paste this. Apparently most developers don't mind piracy as much since it is free publicity to them but yes Android users effectively do pirate significantly more than IOS users(since IOS users are far more likely to pay).

"So, is it true that Android is playing into the hands of pirates? Yes. So, is it true that 95% of the app users hunt Android Apps for pirated copies? Yes. So, is it true that the stolen Android software practically outnumbers iOS counterparts by 14:1. Yes. Is it true that because of the high piracy rates of Android apps, devs choose iOS over Android stores while launching their apps? Yes.

So, the bottom line is: if even if Android applies every ounce of its technical muscle to end piracy, it simply can’t do anything about it because it has been championing open source cause so freely.

Here are some more startling Android App Piracy statistics for your eyes to feast on:​

Today Calendar Pro app — 85% of its downloads are pirated here. Yes, you read that right 85%. Meaning, only 15% are paid downloads (source: androidpolice.com).

Towelfight 2 game — This game app has been pirated no fewer than 34,091 , while on the iOS it stands at 2,438.

Monument Valley — 95% of its apps are pirated on Android, while it’s 60% on iOS (source: appindex.com).

Gentleman –144 paid installs while 50,030 copies were pirated within three weeks of its release in 2013 (source: gamasutra.com).

But then, piracy is not new to Android. It dates back to 2012, when 90% of the apps on Android were pirated. That means, only 10% were paid apps in Android even in 2012."

Anything open, like Android, will have high piracy. That can't be disputed. Given Android's Hacking/Rom communities like XDA, i am not sure why you are shocked at my claim as if i pulled it out of thin air.

I don't say stuff just to say it. I was an android fangirl at one time another(a dark dark time lol). I know all the sites and ways and I was not even a power user. I was just smart enough

 

[Abazigal]

I think that as I peer deeper into all of this - I keep smelling the one same emotion from all of Apple's competitors (which I will take to terming the "Anti-Apple Brigade").

Fear.

You wouldn't guess it from the recent negative news about Apple's sales (eg: flat revenue growth, declining Mac sales), but they would not be doing this unless Apple could truly do them harm, and my first instinct is that as Apple's ecosystem continues to gain strength, it is fast removing oxygen from their respective markets.

Not bad for a company with only 20% market share worldwide.

 

[scorpio vega]

You wouldn't guess it from the recent negative news about Apple's sales (eg: flat revenue growth, declining Mac sales), but they would not be doing this unless Apple could truly do them harm, and my first instinct is that as Apple's ecosystem continues to gain strength, it is fast removing oxygen from their respective markets.

Not bad for a company with only 20% market share worldwide.

Adding onto this,
It makes you wonder with that 20 percent marketshare why Google nor Samsung can't get mainstream people to switch over to their phones from iPhones as fast as it is to get android users to switch to IOS.

Because they can't make a product that is good enough to want by the mainstream mass outside of Cost.

I remember thinking Windows were the best computers as a kid. Because anyone can have a laptop (remember netbooks) and connect to the web.

Now, I love my surface but I realized windows was good because it was cheap and unless you are a gamer or Enterprise, it really is not as good as I thought it was. It was simply cheap lol. Now they definitely stepped their game up wth Surface

 

[Abazigal]

It makes you wonder with that 20 percent marketshare why Google nor Samsung can't get mainstream people to switch over to their phones from iPhones as fast as it is to get android users to switch to IOS.

If you have a few minutes to spare, I recommend you this article from last year.

Above Avalon: Apple Is in a League of Its Own

During Apple’s “Peek Performance” event held last month, the company announced not only a brand new Mac category with the Mac Studio, but also iPhone SE and iPad Air updates that will be well-received in the marketplace. Management fit so much into its 57-minute event, Apple’s entry into live sports

www.aboveavalon.com

In summary, it's a combination of Apple's continued growing ecosystem, plus the competition floundering due to numerous bad bets.