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Jim Lahey

macrumors 68030
Apr 8, 2014
2,627
5,386
Is that the standard? Availability? Because then no food belongs to any country. Barbecue and burgers unquestionably originated in America.

Just having a bit of fun.

But barbecue though? Seriously? Moses had a barbecue outside the tabernacle like three thousand years ago. Probably.
 
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cupcakes2000

macrumors 68040
Apr 13, 2010
3,889
5,307
Which of my examples do you not consider American?

Is that the standard? Availability? Because then no food belongs to any country. Barbecue and burgers unquestionably originated in America.
Well, hamburgers unsurprisingly come from Hamburg, and although you guys did and still do eat a lot of them, but it’s a stretch to say they originated in the us.

And barbecue? I dunno. We’ve been raising a cooking platter above an open fire for thousands of years. But yeah I think you probably invented bbq sauce, and you’re at least on par with the Aussies at making a good one.

Unquestionably though? Hmmm.
 

jarman92

macrumors 65832
Nov 13, 2014
1,502
4,676
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jlc1978

macrumors 603
Aug 14, 2009
5,515
4,292
Nobody is denying that more crime could potentially be solved with a kind of backdoor. But it’s not a magic bullet, and it’s not a necessary factor into solving crimes, as evidenced by all of the solved crimes in history.

Here's the problem - there is just too much information to be useful in general colelction, hoovering up texts etc. would result in information overload. A smart crook will b dleting messages and using other means to obfuscate what they are doing; and having a backdoor opens up your phone to ar more people than LE with a valid warrant.

Enforcing backdoors is problematic - if a developer wants to create an encrypted messaging app for use by criminals/terrorists/politicians being naughty, they will and ignore UK law.

But yeah I think you probably invented bbq sauce, and you’re at least on par with the Aussies at making a good one

Sauce on BBQ is sacrilegious, it's all about the rub.
 

cupcakes2000

macrumors 68040
Apr 13, 2010
3,889
5,307
Again, unquestionably? I’m not sure. Popularising something and perfecting it isn’t the same as inventing it.

As I said though, there’s no denying how good you guys are at it (in theory, not always in practice - you have similar problems as Britain when it comes to choosing the right place to eat!!)
 
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Motorola68000

macrumors 6502
Sep 12, 2022
301
273
All you downvoters on my posts and those complaining about too much control or surveillance are utter hypocrites because you know full well if a loved one of yours got caught up in a terrorist incident or kidnapping or other devious acts you would be shouting to the high heavens to get that loved one out of harms way and be asking the security authorities that they do everything to get the loved one back, but wait, they cannot because electronic devices that was seized from the criminals are protected by heavy encryption and passwords that cannot be broken OR can be broken but would take a long time to crack, time the loved one would not have.

How many terrorist incidents could have been avoided if the security services could access locked and/or encrypted electronic devices? How many children could have been protected from child grooming gangs if the police were able to access electronic devices to see the groomers messaging each other and what they were messaging. How many kidnapped people would be alive today if the security services were able to intercept communications between and from the kidnappers.

Not everyone lives in the comfort of a safety bubble which seems to be the case for many in here who are against governments and security services doing all they can to protect our lives from those who wish to do us harm.
You make some dangerous assumptions. You have no idea how many if any terrorist incidents could have been avoided if security services could access locked and/or encrypted electronic devices, because if these devices were known to be able to be unlocked, then these people would and already do use more secure methods, so the only people it affects are the innocent majority.
 
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Motorola68000

macrumors 6502
Sep 12, 2022
301
273
I note several posters suggest more crimes would be solved etc., if there was a backdoor, but that is so far from the truth. If the UK, the EU and others managed to get a backdoor, then criminals/terrorists etc., would all know that, and make other arrangements. They are always one step ahead, and if anything a backdoor could make crime fighting even harder, as these criminal groups would go further underground, leaving just the innocent to have their privacy invaded.
 
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ric22

macrumors 68020
Mar 8, 2022
2,047
1,954
Is that the standard? Availability? Because then no food belongs to any country. Barbecue and burgers unquestionably originated in America.
Google is your friend. No need to just guess at facts in the modern era.

(Humans have been barbecuing in many countries for millennia, and burgers originated from Hamburg, Germany. Dude, seriously, the clue was in the name for that one. 🤦‍♂️ )
 

laptech

macrumors 68040
Apr 26, 2013
3,607
4,009
Earth
You make some dangerous assumptions. You have no idea how many if any terrorist incidents could have been avoided if security services could access locked and/or encrypted electronic devices, because if these devices were known to be able to be unlocked, then these people would and already do use more secure methods, so the only people it affects are the innocent majority.
And you have some dangerous logic, do not put security measures in place because it drives criminals further underground!! really, is that your logic??

As for how many terrorist incidents could have been avoided, yes I do know how many...ALL of them, because each one has had a public enquiry and in the enquiry the security services/police have complained at not being able to monitor the communication/messages. They know something is going down but they have no idea where, when and how.
 

Motorola68000

macrumors 6502
Sep 12, 2022
301
273
And you have some dangerous logic, do not put security measures in place because it drives criminals further underground!! really, is that your logic??

As for how many terrorist incidents could have been avoided, yes I do know how many...ALL of them, because each one has had a public enquiry and in the enquiry the security services/police have complained at not being able to monitor the communication/messages. They know something is going down but they have no idea where, when and how.
You've answered your own query? Apple put security measures in place to safeguard users. Its UK, EU and others that want that security features removed to create a back door.

As for your ridiculous assertion that all terrorist incidents could have been avoided....completely wrong. As for citing public enquiries....that's really clutching at straws especially with regards the UK where these are usually 6 years after the event and designed in the main to kick cock ups into the long grass.

Of course backside covering results in people suggesting if only we had this, it wouldn't have happened, or 'it wasn't our fault' and of course authorities want more and more control of your data, but that gives no evidence at all it would reduce terrorism.

Indeed recent stats regarding child porn demonstrate beyond any doubt that these sick individuals ALREADY utilise other methods to maintain anonymity which makes their detection even harder, so the only reason for a backdoor is not the excuse proffered of solving crime, it is a surveillance society where billions of innocent people are designated guilty, whilst the guilty parties have already made other arrangements.

Reminder of the 1769 doctrine by William Blackstone that “the law holds that it is better that 10 guilty persons escape, than that 1 innocent suffer"

In this case its billions of people presumed guilty, and their personal liberty and privacy destroyed and sad thing is its not about crime fighting, its about POWER.

Every now and again we get a new excuse to chip at freedoms, chip at privacy...all just an excuse for the few to exert control over the many.

Criminals adapt but once you open Pandora's box of backdoors and preventing Apple and others from having high level security measures to protect users you are on a very slippery slop as it does not reduce crime, it does not make the job of authorities trying to catch these people easier it makes it harder as criminals go underground:


Criminal to criminal (C2C) communications​

Criminal forums within the deep web or Darknet remain a crucial environment for cybercriminals to communicate. They are a key component of the crime-as-a-service business model which underpins much of cybercrime, providing cybercriminals, entry-level and upwards, with access to the tools and services they need, and providing an environment where they can teach, learn, buy and sell, advertise and do business. Following the law enforcement take-down of the Darkode forum in July 2015148 - the most prolific English speaking criminal forum at the time - there do not appear to be any notable replacements.

Other web-based communication platforms such as chatrooms or open forums are still commonly used for C2C communications, as is ‘simple’ email. Secure, encrypted email is readily available. Some states still report the use of draft emails to communicate from accounts with shared access.

While forums may be suitable for initial contact, most subsequent communications continue using alternate, less public means. Here Jabber is a commonly used tool, and believed to be the preferred means of communication for the more technically competent cybercriminals. To a slightly lesser extent, IRC and ICQ are also used, whereas commercial ‘branded’ products are largely absent. More exotic means of communication such as the use of gaming consoles or even RATs are rare.

Essentially, cybercriminals will use whatever communication method they deem to be the most convenient and/or that which they perceive to be sufficiently secure.
 
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cupcakes2000

macrumors 68040
Apr 13, 2010
3,889
5,307
And you have some dangerous logic, do not put security measures in place because it drives criminals further underground!! really, is that your logic??

As for how many terrorist incidents could have been avoided, yes I do know how many...ALL of them, because each one has had a public enquiry and in the enquiry the security services/police have complained at not being able to monitor the communication/messages. They know something is going down but they have no idea where, when and how.
I'm sure you have good intentions, and you think you have valid reasoning - but unfortunately your sources are flawed.

There is far from any proof about anything. All there is is propaganda.

As I previously and other posters also have stated, backdoor's into global 'normal' communication channels and/or encryption in general, is a massively flawed concept.

Government's and other general bodies related to and/or pushing it for whatever 'reason', know that this is the case, which is why they spend huge resources on propaganda and scare tactics to push these believable but ultimately false narratives in to the media and therefore the public eye.

You yourself speak of logic, but you fail to use any type of logic in your own thinking on the matter. Do you honestly think that deep terrorist crime cells are using whatsapp to chat? Do you honestly think they're using ''Googleable' websites and forums to exchange their materials and interests and plans? Do you honestly think that blowing open security on the internet and for private communications for everyone on the planet will in any way shape or form make a dent in anything but the most petty of crime?
 
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NEPOBABY

macrumors 6502a
Jan 10, 2023
534
1,440
Privacy for the rich and the politically connected.

But not for you.

The concentration of wealth and the amount of corruption is so high the only way they can prevent public anger and protests is by destroying privacy for citizens.

It's all about protecting the crimes of the powerful. If they tell you it is to stop crime, that's a lie because all major crime is done by the wealthiest and they are all benefactors from crime.
 
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