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TracerAnalog

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Nov 7, 2012
657
1,175
I just spec’d a 13 inch iPad Pro 1 Tb, and for fun I compared the EU price (from where I live) with the USA price. Insane! I could buy a ticket to New York, fly there, buy the same iPad, fly back, and I still would save some money.

Well that is before paying EU import taxes 😝. I guess that explains a lot.

Just sharing.
 
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RRC

macrumors 68000
Nov 3, 2020
1,512
2,373
American prices do not include sales tax, depending on the state. Add onto that import taxes, if declared and it's not any cheaper really.
 

TracerAnalog

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Nov 7, 2012
657
1,175
American prices do not include sales tax, depending on the state. Add onto that import taxes, if declared and it's not any cheaper really.
The difference is 20%, taking into account taxes both in the USA and the EU. On a €3000 buy that amounts to €600, or $645.

That’s a return ticket Frankfurt - New York.

And yes I know it’s the import taxes the EU puts on top. Still crazy…
 
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magbarn

macrumors 68030
Oct 25, 2008
2,970
2,274
The difference is 20%, taking into account taxes both in the USA and the EU. On a €3000 buy that amounts to €600, or $645.

That’s a return ticket Frankfurt - New York.

And yes I know it’s the import taxes the EU puts on top. Still crazy…
Well, you guys basically get an extra year of warranty thrown in, almost like AppleCare and of course there's a big difference in government benefits that have to be paid for.
 

JPack

macrumors G5
Mar 27, 2017
12,729
23,748
iPad Pro 11 base
USA - $999
Hong Kong - $1,023
Germany - $1,076 (pre-VAT)

iPad Pro 13 1TB
USA - $1,899
Hong Kong - $1,956
Germany - $2,052 (pre-VAT)

Not sure how you’re getting 20% difference. Show me your math.
 
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TracerAnalog

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Nov 7, 2012
657
1,175
Ok
iPad Pro 11 base
USA - $999
Hong Kong - $1,023
Germany - $1,076 (pre-VAT)

iPad Pro 13 1TB
USA - $1,899
Hong Kong - $1,956
Germany - $2,052 (pre-VAT)

Not sure how you’re getting 20% difference. Show me your math.
Okay😊

Fully loaded 13 inch iPad Pro 1Tb with nano etching, pencil pro, keyboard and 2 years Apple care amounts to $2517 without taxes. Add 10% for sales tax (Florida is about 8%), turn $ into € and you get €2577. EU price for the exact same things is €3156. So 20%.

And once more: import taxes brings it back to 0%. What I said in my post 😊
 

madmin

macrumors 6502a
Jun 14, 2012
693
4,024
My French bill for the iPad also includes 0.25 euros for "éco-participation" and 14 euros for "Frais de droits d'auteur"

I think that roughly translates to a quarter for Mother Nature and 14 euros for illegal copying, presumption of guilt.
 

6916494

Cancelled
Jun 16, 2022
105
155
You are wrong:

Every country of the EU has a different VAT rates (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_value_added_tax). So you cannot compare the US with the EU, you have to do it for every country separately.

There are no import taxes for computers in the EU (https://www.zoll.de/SharedDocs/Boxen/DE/Fragen/0082_beispiele_zollsaetze.html?faqCalledDoc=289528).

There is import VAT, but this is a zero-sum thing for companies, as they are allowed to claim that import VAT in their VAT tax declaration. Only the very last buyer pays VAT (we, the consumers). If an individual buys a computer in the USA and imports it into the EU the import VAT is of course not refundable, but for companies it is.

And then you either need to compare net prices without any taxes, or end prices including taxes:

A fully maxed out 13 inch MBP incl. everything costs in the states USD 3,246 net without any sales taxes. In Germany the net price for the same device would be EUR 3,249. With the current exchange rate of 0,9290 this amounts to EUR 3,016, which makes the device in Germany 8,33 % more expensive than in the US.

The same device with 6% sales tax in Florida, compared to the price in Germany including the 19% German VAT gives you a difference of 12.4%.

It is not 20%.
 
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TracerAnalog

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Nov 7, 2012
657
1,175
You are wrong:

Every country of the EU has a different VAT rates (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_value_added_tax). So you cannot compare the US with the EU, you have to do it for every country separately.

There are no import taxes for computers in the EU (https://www.zoll.de/SharedDocs/Boxen/DE/Fragen/0082_beispiele_zollsaetze.html?faqCalledDoc=289528).

There is import VAT, but this is a zero-sum thing for companies, as they are allowed to claim that import VAT in their VAT tax declaration. Only the very last buyer pays VAT (we, the consumers). If an individual buys a computer in the USA and imports it into the EU the import VAT is of course not refundable, but for companies it is.

And then you either need to compare net prices without any taxes, or end prices including taxes:

A fully maxed out 13 inch MBP incl. everything costs in the states USD 3,246 net without any sales taxes. In Germany the net price for the same device would be EUR 3,249. With the current exchange rate of 0,9290 this amounts to EUR 3,016, which makes the device in Germany 8,33 % more expensive than in the US.

The same device with 6% sales tax in Florida, compared to the price in Germany including the 19% German VAT gives you a difference of 12.4%.

It is not 20%.

I travel regularly to the USA for work. My literal example holds: flying to New York I can buy the exact same fully decked out iPad for 20% less than in the Netherlands. There is no tax free shopping for EU citizens at Apple in the USA. Bringing that iPad back to Europe will cost me 21% on top due to import taxes. I know, I’ve had to do it in the past when certain Apple products were not yet available in the Netherlands.

I guess we have to agree to disagree. 🤷🏻‍♂️
 

klasma

macrumors 603
Jun 8, 2017
6,079
17,029
How do other (based in US) products compare?
Two random examples: Samsung Tab S9 Ultra 1 TB is $1620 in the US, and after currency conversion $1594 without tax in the EU (2% less). Microsoft Surface Pro 9 i7 16 GB is $2200 in the US, and after currency conversion $2291 without tax in the EU (4% more). Around ±5 % difference is to be expected and within the realm of currency fluctuations.
 
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BrianBaughn

macrumors G3
Feb 13, 2011
9,683
2,434
Baltimore, Maryland
Two random examples: Samsung Tab S9 Ultra 1 TB is $1620 in the US, and after currency conversion $1594 without tax in the EU (2% less). Microsoft Surface Pro 9 i7 16 GB is $2200 in the US, and after currency conversion $2291 without tax in the EU (4% more). Around ±5 % difference is to be expected and within the realm of currency fluctuations.
Microsoft I'll accept but I wouldn't call a Samsung product "based in US".
 

maxsquared

macrumors 6502a
Jun 27, 2009
609
432
London
I believe the cheapest place to buy Apple product is HK, which doesn't have sales tax. Difference in price for a 1 TB iPad Pro is about £300 from the UK. And I believe the price difference for a medium spec MacBook Pro is more than a return flight from London to Hong Kong.

I have a friend flew to HK during bank holiday weekend just to upgrade his Apple gears, and he actually saved quite a bit of money.
 

NoBoMac

Moderator
Staff member
Jul 1, 2014
5,866
4,457
The regular "Apple product prices outside of US is theft" thread when new product is announced.

Germany - $2,052 (pre-VAT)

This.

Germany Apple for 13" with cellular, nano glass, 1TB, Pencil Pro, Keyboard, AC = 3.386,00 € with VAT

Including VAT and statutory Fees i. H.v. approx. €519.05.

US, same config = $2,846.00 no sales tax. Germany VAT is 19%, so $3386 with 19% added, comes to 3,139.42 € with current exchange rate (2637 without VAT, $2843 w/currency conversion to USD).

France, 3406 with VAT of 552,08 €. 20 higher for base price vs DE, which lines up as same-ish base price.

As others mentioned, throw in more generous mandated warranties, some inflation on price (base $1299 vs €1301 without VAT) but VAT is the killer.

And in case of US sales taxes, not only varies from state to state but from city to city, county to county, so can see some surprising sales tax values (eg. Arkansas, Alabama, Oklahoma from this list has a relatively high average; Chicago is 10.25%).



Oh and: what has been brought up in these type of threads in the past, Apple most likely is setting their price at a "sweet spot" to deal with currency fluctuation vs changing price daily/weekly/monthly. Some days will make a bit more, others, make not as much.
 
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JPack

macrumors G5
Mar 27, 2017
12,729
23,748
More accurate title for this thread:

EU Taxes are Insane

Once you remove the EU tax component, the actual product price difference is 10% or less.
 

TracerAnalog

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Nov 7, 2012
657
1,175
-shakes head in frustration-

iPad Pro, 1Tb, no cellular, nano texture, Pencil Pro, Magic Keyboard, 2 year Apple Care.

Apple’s website, New York 5th Avenue price:
$2740 incl. tax => €2553
My bill for the same order in the Netherlands: €3156
The difference is €597 or $640. For which I can fly to New York from Amsterdam.

Which I thought is a funny observation.

Nobody is stealing money or price gauging here, and the difference can be explained in all sorts of calculations and reasonings. It is also not a serious option to fly to the US in order to try smuggling an iPad into Europe. That would be insane 😉

I could have chosen a better title I guess 🤷🏻‍♂️

Don’t take my post too serious 😅
 
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6916494

Cancelled
Jun 16, 2022
105
155
More accurate title for this thread:

EU Taxes are Insane

Once you remove the EU tax component, the actual product price difference is 10% or less.

To be even more accurate: there are no EU taxes. The EU is not a country. Each EU country raises its own taxes based on their own tax system.

In addition you have to look at the taxes overall. There are different VAT tax rates, different income tax rates, different wealth tax rates, inheritance and gift tax rates, different social security systems, etc. Tax comparisons between countries is a science in itself.
 
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JPack

macrumors G5
Mar 27, 2017
12,729
23,748
To be even more accurate: there are no EU taxes. The EU is not a country. Each EU country raises its own taxes based on their own tax system.

In addition you have to look at the taxes overall. There are different VAT tax rates, different income tax rates, different wealth tax rates, inheritance and gift tax rates, different social security systems, etc. Tax comparisons between countries is a science in itself.

All EU countries have insane tax rates. From a "low" of 17% in Luxembourg to a high of 27% in Hungary, no wonder the European economies are stagnant. Who wants to spend when rates are so high?

There are plenty of countries with decent quality of life that don't have killer VATs like Canada and Australia at around 10%.
 
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blkjedi954

macrumors 6502
Feb 15, 2012
396
306
Florida
I just spec’d a 13 inch iPad Pro 1 Tb, and for fun I compared the EU price (from where I live) with the USA price. Insane! I could buy a ticket to New York, fly there, buy the same iPad, fly back, and I still would save some money.

Well that is before paying EU import taxes 😝. I guess that explains a lot.

Just sharing.
Wow. Just fly here and save on accommodations by staying with family/friends and pocket the savings. Incredibly expensive in the EU.
 

blkjedi954

macrumors 6502
Feb 15, 2012
396
306
Florida
Ok

Okay😊

Fully loaded 13 inch iPad Pro 1Tb with nano etching, pencil pro, keyboard and 2 years Apple care amounts to $2517 without taxes. Add 10% for sales tax (Florida is about 8%), turn $ into € and you get €2577. EU price for the exact same things is €3156. So 20%.

And once more: import taxes brings it back to 0%. What I said in my post 😊
Florida is 7% sales tax
 

blkjedi954

macrumors 6502
Feb 15, 2012
396
306
Florida
Ok

Okay😊

Fully loaded 13 inch iPad Pro 1Tb with nano etching, pencil pro, keyboard and 2 years Apple care amounts to $2517 without taxes. Add 10% for sales tax (Florida is about 8%), turn $ into € and you get €2577. EU price for the exact same things is €3156. So 20%.

And once more: import taxes brings it back to 0%. What I said in my post 😊
Just went to Apples website:

13 inch ipad pro 1TB Wi-Fi - 1899
nano - 100
pencil pro - 129
keyboard - 349
2 years Apple care - 169
Total before taxes = 2,646 US, where did 2517 come from?
 

TracerAnalog

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Nov 7, 2012
657
1,175
Just went to Apples website:

13 inch ipad pro 1TB Wi-Fi - 1899
nano - 100
pencil pro - 129
keyboard - 349
2 years Apple care - 169
Total before taxes = 2,646 US, where did 2517 come from?
Apple’s website can be a bit wonky (due to cookies I guess) when going back and forth between the US and NL site. I posted a corrected calculation above.
 
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Velin

macrumors 68020
Jul 23, 2008
2,019
1,932
Hearst Castle
Apple stores in Oregon do big business. No state sales tax. Remember the huge iPhone scalping problems with the 4, 4s, 5, etc.? Scalpers loved bulk purchasing in OR, then a straight flight to Asia. Big markups and very big profits to be made with that particular trade years ago.

In fact, the line-sitter queues in Oregon lasted for months. Months. It was so bad they even limited release-day sales, as that article confirms.
 
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