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EU Fines Apple $2 Billion for Anti-Competitive Behavior Toward Spotify
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LOL - Thanks for clarifying you are not personally calling me stupid. The mods would probably delete your comments otherwise. And I don’t take it personally.
Appreciate your view and understand the perspective you and another posted. It surely was a contentious vote and interesting to watch it unfold from across the pond. It’s been a while since I’ve read anything about the financial implications of leaving the EU. What I do recall about it is the UK, as well as other better managed countries, were having to constantly cover the bad decisions in countries like Italy and Greece. Being free of that should help the economy. If it’s bad today, imagine what it would be like having to cover the others? Perhaps it’s time for me to find some articles about this to see if my perception is valid.
It's the way the antitrust/legal system has worked in the U.S. and other countries/regions. There can be various types of monopolies besides "pure monopolies" and various factors can go into declaring a company a monopoly or having monopoly power. These include things like market share, barriers to entry, substitutability, etc. A company doesn't have to be the sole business in a market to be considered a monopoly or having monopoly power.
In short: words dont mean anything? Just a matter of opinions & interpretations then?
Expert opinions - but yes, it is based on opinion and interpretation - by economists and legal specialists in the field of competition law.
What do you mean? The word ‘monopoly’ has a definition. Look it up! It’s used in its proper context throughout the world. What don’t you understand?
There are typically legal guidelines and precedents that are used to apply, enforce, etc. laws and regulations. For example, a company with 5% market share in a market with dozens of competitors would not likely be considered a monopoly or having monopoly power.
However, the legal systems in the U.S., EU and other countries/regions are not perfect and laws can sometimes be interpreted multiple ways in different cases and jurisdictions even when the "facts” are similar. These are among the reasons why you can see negotiations/settlements, appeals, judgements overturned, etc.
How about this...
iPhone Sales in China Declined 24% in First Six Weeks of 2024
I am pretty sure that Apple lost way more than $2 billion in net profit from China.
This wasn't exactly what the EU wanted. They want for Spotify to be allowed to inform the customer within the app of cheaper alternatives to the AppStore price. Which I still think is wrong (like 99% wrong). But, for that 1% I will "see their point" on it.
Kinda. Pretty sure the EU wants the developer to have the ability to advertise "other" pricing of their app and services. Just that it is within the developers app. I would assume (and be wrong I'm sure) that the developer should show what the price is outside the store, and where. Plus what they gain and lose doing so. So say it's easier to cancel via the AppStore, but it's 30% more for that. Or it's cheaper on the website to sign up, but you lose this "feature" (just making something up) in doing so. Etc.
Not that they will do that. Just that they "can".
Nope, it'll become stronger, see what Brexit did and the consequences of the war in Ukraine.
Not technically anymore (in the EU).
I get what you mean. Like saying you go to a mall, but there is only 1 store in it.
My reasoning, and I'm sure Apple's is. You don't have to purchase an iPhone. This was all known before purchase. So if you don't like it, think it's too limiting, or for whatever reason are not interested in the "Apple" way. Don't buy it. And your options are Android and its store, and 3rd party stores that you already are allowed to install and or side load etc.
I am not arguing against a unified Europe, particularly with the enormous threat Russia poses. However, the Union's economic model is under serious distress. It is running out of liquidity due to the demographics, hence the pursuit of fines on foreign firms over the past 7 years. Adjustments will need to be made and funds are needed.
IMHO the usage of the monopoly term isn't used like it was originally intended. Anything that is not open-source but run by the manufacturer can be claimed to be monopoly-like.
The VoD marketplace has lot of large and small players but because they all offer a lot of freedom to choose there is no problem with consumers having completely free rein.
The music streaming affair with Spotify saying they can't communicate to customers should be done through optional email notifications. Pretty much all commerce here in the states does it that way for consumers.
You do occasionally run into better deals after the fact. Most consumers can always choose to cancel subscriptions and restart a subscription using an alternative paying method. It shouldn't be something that is lazy meaning using the App Store provides all developers communications and notifications forever IMHO. Using the App Store personally is my last choice for product insight/reviews, facts, and deals on apps or software.
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EU will never ever be able to compete economically with the US. For the very same reason a puppet state like Nazi Germany were created were US business owned most of the manufacturing that kept on producing tanks right until 1945 without facing a threat of being bombed.
I want more options on iOS.
EU users are getting that by law.
Apple haven’t been fined out of thin air - they knew what they were doing. Just play fair, stop the most egregious anticompetitive behaviour and offer fair, competitive rates in their App Store - and don’t pay fines. Simple as that.
There is a reason why competition watchdogs (and lawmakers) around the world (and that includes the U.S.) are investigating Apple for anticompetitive conduct. It’s by no means limited to the EU.
You're not entitled to it. What if Apple failed as a business tomorrow. What do you do?
I mean, I want world peace. Doesn't mean I'm entitled to it. You can want all you like.
They are getting the option too ,yes. And the only outcry (still) is from businesses that want more. Where is the outcry of the citizens within the EU that wanted this?
Tell us what that rate is? Because it doesn't seem the EU can or the US or anyone "can" tell us, the common folk. What a fair rate is. How much should a business (in a capitalist society) make, that is fair for everyone? Then show me the business that will not want it to be even less for another business, but not for themselves.
It isn't. But, if this works within the EU. Believe it will be the same model everywhere else. Again, I'm very impressed with the solution Apple came up with for the EU. It both allows 3rd party stores, without affecting my choice in picking a closed system. You still have to go thru Apple if you want 3rd party access. No direct side-loading or willy nilly 3rd party AppStore's. However, by the tones of some on this forum (and EPIC). It's not following the spirit of the law. It's not what the EU "meant" for this to work. Blah blah blah. Cry cry cry. Just proves that they want this for FREE. It wasn't about a lower cost, it was about a FREE RIDE.
I said long ago, if the EU feels this way. Tax Apple more. It's the same effect. Better than any 1 time fine. As you get more revenue to go back into the system for all.
It would incentivize Apple to figure out another way to make money. To get around the extra tax, they could have come up with a solution that when presented to the EU. They could have agreed solves the issue and the extra tax goes away. Rather than this back and forth guess work.
But, you get what you get and you don't get upset.
Mainly due to demographics for countries in the EU. They don't support immigration to help solve the issue. Unlike say, Canada and even the US (of course we complain about it, we are a nation of immigrants). We benefit more from it, since it immediately expands the labor pool and tax base. Not having at least 2.1+ children per household over time will cause issues.
Germany will suffer greatly due to their aging population. And a smaller working age group that has to replace those retiring. Plus, less cheap fuel for industry. They choose to support Ukraine and lose access to cheap Russian fuel.
We will see how that plays out, but it will take some time to know unfortunately.
The EU leans more socialist than Capitalist. Which will also prevent them from having as many successful businesses, comparatively. Especially technology driven ones.
Declining demographics is a real issue across the globe including countries like India.
Germany/EU are obviously being gradually "groomed" to fight Russia under their own national flags. All that Macron/Scholz "bad cop, good cop" interplay, "leaks" about the delivery and use of the 500 km range missiles(remember it all started with just the helmets and the sleeping bags). I am sure that the next logical step of the "grooming" will be "suggestion" to erect the monument to celebrate the life of Hitler and so on.
US is in a very beautiful position as they never seem to run out of the "mohicans" so they will continue to milk "the last of the mohicans" concept until they run out of them and in the end they hope they will still be able to find an excuse to be on the winning side(whichever side that might be).
What are you talking about? Ridiculous notion fuelled by dubious news sources, I have no doubt.
Do you know how the "grooming"/"Overton window"/"slippery slope" process works?
Are you saying that the unthinkable can never ever become a reality? I thought you said that never is a very strong word.
If the law provides for it, I’m entitled to. So are third-party developers.
Of course - third-party businesses are directly affected by anticompetitive behaviour - consumers aren’t.
Why should I tell you, if competition can decide?
Not necessarily for free - but on fair terms.
Apple steering developers of many (most) apps to their own App Store on legacy business terms - that have been found anticompetitive and of which many provisions violate the legislation - is undermining the law.
You keep mentioning the law, but sections of the DMA law that involves 22 digital platform companies hasn’t even reached March 7th yet? That is what I find is confusing?
reference
Newsletter: DMA compliance day puts law to proof
Newsletter: This week's key events, focusing on tech giant gatekeepers' compliance under the DMA, presented by policy editor Jeremy Fleming-Jones #EuropeNews
I did and it’s true and I didn’t suggest anything to the contrary. But hyperbole about Hitler and some kind of sudden accepted and nation, no - bloc wide worship of him isn’t anything relevant to the current discussion. Further more, it’s not anything that’s even close to being prevalent anywhere within the EU.
In the world - sure, certainly in some places more than others, and as I say - never say never, but let’s keep this discussion relevant and not bring up Hitler in to a conversation about allowing sideloading on a bloody telephone.