I can't see Intel being dropped completely by Apple on all Macs ever they could switch to AMD. They may release ARM MBPs models but x86 architecture is the gold standard a lot of professionals rely on. If you ever need to use Windows on your Mac you wont be able to get Windows programs running on an ARM Mac.
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I can still return my MacBook Pro 16, should I?
- Thread starter JulienBerthelot
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I’ll never buy a 1st generation of anything.
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It's entirely possible (and of course no one has a crystal ball) Intel MacBooks may resell at a premium for a short period of time after the transition, kind of like how 2015 MBPs were in such demand due to the butterfly keyboard issues. There are a few reasons that this could happen... developers needing to run x86 VMs, having specific applications with compatibility issues, or if the transition just goes bumpier than Apple had planned.
If you don’t need it, I think so.
If the future of MacBooks can deliver quieter and cooler machines which run as fast or faster with battery life, I’m game to wait for it.
The problem I found with laptops across all brands these days is, with power came a huge tendency to become really hot and loud under what I deem as light loads, just due to how power hungry turbo boosting is. It’s a problem I didn’t experience in older laptops.
So even as someone heavily invested in Windows/x86 for my work, someone had to pull the plaster off - it’s not going to be all plain sailing and there will be lots of teething issues - but you can be sure this will accelerate the transition to ARM in the industry as a whole which can only be a good thing - might even mean that Microsoft will push ARM Windows harder and it will open up a whole new world of products.
If the future of MacBooks can deliver quieter and cooler machines which run as fast or faster with battery life, I’m game to wait for it.
The problem I found with laptops across all brands these days is, with power came a huge tendency to become really hot and loud under what I deem as light loads, just due to how power hungry turbo boosting is. It’s a problem I didn’t experience in older laptops.
So even as someone heavily invested in Windows/x86 for my work, someone had to pull the plaster off - it’s not going to be all plain sailing and there will be lots of teething issues - but you can be sure this will accelerate the transition to ARM in the industry as a whole which can only be a good thing - might even mean that Microsoft will push ARM Windows harder and it will open up a whole new world of products.
So one way to look at buying any intel Mac from here until arm is that IF you need bootcamp, parallels, etc. for Windows at least you will be able to use it longer than say trying to milk a 2013 for a few more years.
I knew about Apple's plan to switch to ARM well before my purchase, but I thought it would take them years to switch their powerful computers to ARM. Now that they've announced the "2 year" switch, I'm kinda worried my computer won't last me long enough, or that I'll miss those new ARM-only features (mostly speed & battery life).
My return window hasn't passed yet thanks to COVID-19, should I take advantage of this and wait for an ARM MacBook Pro 16" ?
(I personally always laughed at people who bought PPC Macs after the announcement of the Intel switch, but now that I'm living it, it doesn't seem as funny...)
I am going to buy a new top of the line MBP 16" before the ARM and keep the old OS for me the new MBP ARM is an iPad with keyboard
A 2019 MacBook Pro 16" will be perfectly fine for the next 3-4 years. Apple will still have OSes that run on it for at least that long, and most third party software won't even be ARM native until the end of that period, anyway. And besides, do you want the first generation of new-technology Apple?
- The 1994 Power Mac 6100, 7100, and 8100 were built on NuBus architecture, which was switched out for PCI after that generation. They ran 68k apps no faster, and often slower, than their Quadra predecessors. PPC-only MacOS didn't come about until OS 8.5 (or was it 8.6?) in 1997 or so. By that point, even the newest Quadra 840 was already four years old.
- The 2006 MacBook Pro and iMacs, if I recall, could run PPC software (via Rosetta 1) faster than most G4s could run, but not quite as quick as a G5. Of course, this was fine on the portable side, but less good for the iMacs. Intel-only Snow Leopard didn't come around until 2009, and even the last PowerBook release would have been four years old.
What this suggests is that you should expect native software support for four years, and have a computer that's at least as good for most tasks as an ARM machine for half of that, if not more. Given that it sounds like you don't keep your stuff for more than three years or so anyway (2017 MacBook Pro and iPad 10.5" are already traded), you should be perfectly fine with the MacBook Pro 16".
One thing I suspect is that the Mac Pro tower might be the last thing they switch over or discontinue, due to the extensibility of the architecture (RAM, GPUs, PCIe cards), as well as the fact that we haven't yet seen how an Apple ARM chip scales when it comes to handling that many cores. Third party software is also very slow to update (witness Catalina), so I'm betting you're safe with Intel support for a while.
- The 1994 Power Mac 6100, 7100, and 8100 were built on NuBus architecture, which was switched out for PCI after that generation. They ran 68k apps no faster, and often slower, than their Quadra predecessors. PPC-only MacOS didn't come about until OS 8.5 (or was it 8.6?) in 1997 or so. By that point, even the newest Quadra 840 was already four years old.
- The 2006 MacBook Pro and iMacs, if I recall, could run PPC software (via Rosetta 1) faster than most G4s could run, but not quite as quick as a G5. Of course, this was fine on the portable side, but less good for the iMacs. Intel-only Snow Leopard didn't come around until 2009, and even the last PowerBook release would have been four years old.
What this suggests is that you should expect native software support for four years, and have a computer that's at least as good for most tasks as an ARM machine for half of that, if not more. Given that it sounds like you don't keep your stuff for more than three years or so anyway (2017 MacBook Pro and iPad 10.5" are already traded), you should be perfectly fine with the MacBook Pro 16".
One thing I suspect is that the Mac Pro tower might be the last thing they switch over or discontinue, due to the extensibility of the architecture (RAM, GPUs, PCIe cards), as well as the fact that we haven't yet seen how an Apple ARM chip scales when it comes to handling that many cores. Third party software is also very slow to update (witness Catalina), so I'm betting you're safe with Intel support for a while.
I'm happy with my current 16" base model, more than enough for gaming (World of Warcraft) and work (Virtualisation & Cloud apps via browser)
I'll definitely jump in on the ARM laptops but for 12" or 13". For the workhorse I'll keep using this one attached to the external monitor.
I'll definitely jump in on the ARM laptops but for 12" or 13". For the workhorse I'll keep using this one attached to the external monitor.
I'm pretty much in the same boat, here. I bought a MBP 16 last year (really happy with it), but it is too late to think about it.
My question mark is more about my order order of MBA for my wife, it has not shipped yet and I wonder what to do about it ?
Apple should provide a clearer roadmap at least on the Intel model OS support timeframe.
As I understood , the same source code can be pretty compiled either for x64 or arm and that make me optimistic on 3rd party support. But the fact they just said years of support could literary mean 2 or 3 years. being unclear on this things is certainly on purpose.
My hope is they could not take the risk to screw up existing customer, like recent Mac Pro buyers. Even though Apple can pretty much go away with almost everything.
My question mark is more about my order order of MBA for my wife, it has not shipped yet and I wonder what to do about it ?
Apple should provide a clearer roadmap at least on the Intel model OS support timeframe.
As I understood , the same source code can be pretty compiled either for x64 or arm and that make me optimistic on 3rd party support. But the fact they just said years of support could literary mean 2 or 3 years. being unclear on this things is certainly on purpose.
My hope is they could not take the risk to screw up existing customer, like recent Mac Pro buyers. Even though Apple can pretty much go away with almost everything.
MacWorld, August 1995
My family upgraded from the IIsi (with 68882) to the 6100/66/DOS. Dad was able to port his simulations to native code fairly easily. The major issue, iirc, was that 68882 uses extended precision, while the 601 was a double precision machine.
Good find - the 7100/66 was quite a bit slower than the 68040 based machines running 68k code, and it wasn't until either native apps came around, or 2nd generation PPC systems were released, that PPC was able to fully come out of 68k's shadow.
BareFeats had some tests during the introduction of the iMac Core Duo that showed something similar - on Universal Binary apps, it crushed even a dual G5 tower - but with Rosetta, it lagged. This will likely be the situation for the first year or two of ARM releases, at least until all the apps you use are on ARM.
Haha wow, just saw the 2005 transition presentation by Steve Jobs. Cook and team literally copied that, down to showing off widgets in MacOS lol! So yeah, when Tim saying "years to come", I take it to mean the same as when Steve said "years to come" which is pretty much 2-3 years of major updates with new features, and then security updates after that.
They did the same thing when introducing the Apple Watch (copied the iPhone launch event), I think they do that as a tribute to Steve.
I been a real longtime supporter of Macs in general, and when I watch their scripted ARM Mac pitch I just thought it was being misleading using Rosetta 2 to imply it was the future. Rosetta was always a workaround to make up for lack of native software. But its the history of the Moto to PowerPC to Intel that we can't forget. Apple up to then was going it alone, always the PC versus the Mac. Suddenly the Mac could be made to run x86 programs natively after the interface was set. This going back to something unique to Apple IMHO is backwards for the business community. I don't see this as a issue if they keep ARM (TVOS/,IoS,IPadOS) separate from MacOS with some runtime environment for some IoS Apps. I just prefer Apple to keep offering multiple solutions that are more ideal for the clients they cater to, not one scheme to address all customers.
Its in this FUD (fear uncertainty doubt) the OP was stuck with in retaining the MacBook Pro he just bought or wait for some future ARM doing everything he wants with good performance. So Apple seems to lost a sale, doing this ARM is great act.
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It sounds like the MBP is a useful and appreciated luxury, but not essential. If your last sentence means you really could make do with an older iPad Pro, then you could spend the near future looking forward to an eventual Mac purchase instead of constantly wondering about today's choice. Obviously, if the MacBook is essential to your work or sanity, then it's not so simple.
I knew about Apple's plan to switch to ARM well before my purchase, but I thought it would take them years to switch their powerful computers to ARM. Now that they've announced the "2 year" switch, I'm kinda worried my computer won't last me long enough, or that I'll miss those new ARM-only features (mostly speed & battery life).
My return window hasn't passed yet thanks to COVID-19, should I take advantage of this and wait for an ARM MacBook Pro 16" ?
(I personally always laughed at people who bought PPC Macs after the announcement of the Intel switch, but now that I'm living it, it doesn't seem as funny...
I don't think you should return it. Apple will release some ARM-based Macs within 6-12 months, but your laptop will last, without a doubt, until the parts fall off. They will continue to support Intel-based Macs for quite some time. No need to panic.