M1/M2/M3 Macs user memory upgrades by soldering - blocked by Apple?

[BGS]

That's so cool. So much for Apple using "special NAND chips". I bet those chips didn't cost anywhere near the Apple ripoff $600 price. I wish I was that handy soldering SMD/BGA. My modding days stopped when I used to solder in blue/white LED's on Nokias and PS2 mod chips 20 or so years ago.

The chips are $44/TB on AliExpress - allegedly the same ones as used in iPhone 13, only new & blank:

55.98US $ |KICM223 KICM223R Nand Flash IC 1TB 1024GB For iPhone For Macbook Memory Chip| | - AliExpress

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

aliexpress.com

 

[magbarn]

I'm a bit confused. On the Studio, where the chips are slotted, the SSD controllers are on-die, so those slotted chips are just raw NAND. So what's going on with the Mini? Isn't its SSD controller on-die as well? If so, what you'd need for the upgrade wouldn't be simply an aftermarket SSD, but raw NAND without the controller. And wouldn't the latter be tricky to source?

This might be interesting to do for an older device that you own and would otherwise need to get rid of because you'd outgrown its storage. But if you just wanted to save money on a device you're buying now, it seems safer and more cost-effective to instead buy a used device with the storage you need from one generation ago.

For instance, a new M2 Mini with 16 GB RAM and a 2 TB SSD is currently $1,600. But I've seen sold listings on eBay for an M1 with those specs for $700. And when the M3 Mini comes out, similar deals will be available on the M2.

Used BTO Macs have never really sold for much more than the base spec models. Which makes the price of the overpriced upgrades even more painful as you will hardly ever recoup any significant portion of the upgrade price on resale.

 

[Pressure]

The chips are $44/TB on AliExpress - allegedly the same ones as used in iPhone 13, only new & blank:

55.98US $ |KICM223 KICM223R Nand Flash IC 1TB 1024GB For iPhone For Macbook Memory Chip| | - AliExpress

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

aliexpress.com

Just have in mind that the raw NAND flash chips needs to be coded for the specific device. You can get I2C or JCID V1S Pro BGA NAND programmers.

That's why the sellers list them for specific devices.

 

[fiximac]

Just have in mind that the raw NAND flash chips needs to be coded for the specific device. You can get I2C or JCID V1S Pro BGA NAND programmers.

That's why the sellers list them for specific devices.

Sorry but for M1 and later models no need reprogram nand chips , tested by myself only needed compatible nand chips. U can swap directly from donor locked board or buy on AliExpress

 

[mr_roboto]

That's so cool. So much for Apple using "special NAND chips". I bet those chips didn't cost anywhere near the Apple ripoff $600 price. I wish I was that handy soldering SMD/BGA. My modding days stopped when I used to solder in blue/white LED's on Nokias and PS2 mod chips 20 or so years ago.

Apple does use "special" parts, you can't buy them in volume if you aren't Apple. People doing these swaps are able to because at Apple's volumes, a few parts will escape Apple's supply chain here and there. Another frequent thing is that people scrap broken Macs and iPhones, remove the flash, and sell it through Ali Express.

I'm a bit confused. On the Studio, where the chips are slotted, the SSD controllers are on-die, so those slotted chips are just raw NAND. So what's going on with the Mini? Isn't its SSD controller on-die as well? If so, what you'd need for the upgrade wouldn't be simply an aftermarket SSD, but raw NAND without the controller. And wouldn't the latter be tricky to source?

I've attached a diagram I made contrasting a standard PCIe NVME SSD with Apple's SSD architecture. It is probably accurate-ish, this is going by my memory of what people working on Asahi Linux have discovered while reverse engineering Apple's hardware.

The only difference in the Studio and Mac Pro is that the BGA packages containing an Apple PCIe-to-NAND bridge IC and several NAND die are soldered to a little removable card rather than directly to the motherboard.

 

[theorist9]

Apple does use "special" parts, you can't buy them in volume if you aren't Apple. People doing these swaps are able to because at Apple's volumes, a few parts will escape Apple's supply chain here and there. Another frequent thing is that people scrap broken Macs and iPhones, remove the flash, and sell it through Ali Express.


I've attached a diagram I made contrasting a standard PCIe NVME SSD with Apple's SSD architecture. It is probably accurate-ish, this is going by my memory of what people working on Asahi Linux have discovered while reverse engineering Apple's hardware.

The only difference in the Studio and Mac Pro is that the BGA packages containing an Apple PCIe-to-NAND bridge IC and several NAND die are soldered to a little removable card rather than directly to the motherboard.

It seems there's one additional difference:

I recall both Linus and iFixit found they could swap identical storage modules between Mac Studios, but were unable to get a Studio to recognize a higher capacity module. Thus even if you have the part, you can't use it to increase the capacity on the Studio. Apple may have keyed these and/or the controllers to prevent such swaps, as they are easy to do b/c the part is slotted. [Though you can upgrade the module on the MP, if you buy the larger one directly from Apple.]

By contrast, since Apple didn't expect people to be dropping in larger modules on the soldered devices, they apparently didn't key these, meaning if you can get your hands on a larger one it will (apparently) work.*

*Unless these soldered modules are keyed as well, and they're using some hack to bypasss that.

 

[Chancha]

It seems there's one additional difference:

I recall both Linus and iFixit found they could swap identical storage modules between Mac Studios, but were unable to get a Studio to recognize a higher capacity module. Thus even if you have the part, you can't use it to increase the capacity on the Studio. Apple may have keyed these and/or the controllers to prevent such swaps, as they are easy to do b/c the part is slotted. [Though you can upgrade the module on the MP, if you buy the larger one directly from Apple.]

By contrast, since Apple didn't expect people to be dropping in larger modules on the soldered devices, they apparently didn't key these, meaning if you can get your hands on a larger one it will (apparently) work.*

*Unless these soldered modules are keyed as well, and they're using some hack to bypasss that.

None of the western YouTubers exactly know what they are doing, at least they didn't exhaust the possibilities before publishing their videos. The Studio changing SSD config needs to run Mac Configuration Utility, I think within Apple Configurator 2 which is only accessible with Apple Authorized Repair account or something to that effect. (I suspect ifixit must know how to but they just pretend they don't)

Our guy in China just posted this as well, soldering more NANDs onto the base M2 Max Studio daughter card. The total of 4 solder pads, only 2 were occupied, and he spent like half a day to test capacitor / resistor combination along the unoccupied pads. Ended up successfully upgrading to 2TB on that card. Now there is a question of using the 2nd daughter card slot, and what kind of capacity combinations are possible, that is so niche that I have not seen anyone trying that.

 

[Pressure]

None of the western YouTubers exactly know what they are doing, at least they didn't exhaust the possibilities before publishing their videos. The Studio changing SSD config needs to run Mac Configuration Utility, I think within Apple Configurator 2 which is only accessible with Apple Authorized Repair account or something to that effect. (I suspect ifixit must know how to but they just pretend they don't)

Our guy in China just posted this as well, soldering more NANDs onto the base M2 Max Studio daughter card. The total of 4 solder pads, only 2 were occupied, and he spent like half a day to test capacitor / resistor combination along the unoccupied pads. Ended up successfully upgrading to 2TB on that card. Now there is a question of using the 2nd daughter card slot, and what kind of capacity combinations are possible, that is so niche that I have not seen anyone trying that.

It seems there's one additional difference:

I recall both Linus and iFixit found they could swap identical storage modules between Mac Studios, but were unable to get a Studio to recognize a higher capacity module. Thus even if you have the part, you can't use it to increase the capacity on the Studio. Apple may have keyed these and/or the controllers to prevent such swaps, as they are easy to do b/c the part is slotted. [Though you can upgrade the module on the MP, if you buy the larger one directly from Apple.]

By contrast, since Apple didn't expect people to be dropping in larger modules on the soldered devices, they apparently didn't key these, meaning if you can get your hands on a larger one it will (apparently) work.*

*Unless these soldered modules are keyed as well, and they're using some hack to bypasss that.

Would be great if EZFIX shared everything needed with regards to capacitors and resistors to get it working 😅

Those YouTubers don't know the NAND flash boards are labelled 00 and 01, so they need to be in the correct slot for it to work when it comes to the Mac Studio. It will also only work in a configuration sold by Apple, so you can't grab a second base 512GB NAND flash board and get 1TB. One board gives us up to 2TB (512GB, 1TB and 2TB) and two boards gives us 4TB (2 x 2TB) and 8TB (2 x 4TB) as far as I am aware.

@gilles_polysoft showed us back in November 2022 how to do it correctly and is also working on upgrade NAND boards.

I'm working on 4TB and 8TB upgrades.
maybe will do a kickstarter for this, or sell directly (but not before earl 2024), don't know yet.

I will try to keep the price between 700€ for 4TB and 1400€ for 8TB

 

[Chancha]

Would be great if EZFIX shared everything needed with regards to capacitors and resistors to get it working 😅

Those YouTubers don't know the NAND flash boards are labelled 00 and 01, so they need to be in the correct slot for it to work when it comes to the Mac Studio. It will also only work in a configuration sold by Apple, so you can't grab a second base 512GB NAND flash board and get 1TB. One board gives us up to 2TB (512GB, 1TB and 2TB) and two boards gives us 4TB (2 x 2TB) and 8TB (2 x 4TB) as far as I am aware.

@gilles_polysoft showed us back in November 2022 how to do it correctly and is also working on upgrade NAND boards.

Unpublished cap/res layout is clearly "trade secret" that a repair guy isn't going to just share on the internet, lol.

I may add this relevant info: in the above video he verbally made this comment "so far all M series Macs are already proven to have the capability to upgrade SSDs, our shop has done probably more than a thousand Macs up to this point".

Before watching the M2 Max Studio video I was fully expecting a 2nd daughter card to appear, but he chose to just solder on the 1st one instead, which is tale-telling in the difficulty in trying to get the 2nd card (coded 01). With a maximum of 1TB per NAND, just using one card can already get your 4TB already so I suspect there is close to no market for making a 8TB config happen, especially if someone brings in a base machine with just one card.

 

[Pressure]

Unpublished cap/res layout is clearly "trade secret" that a repair guy isn't going to just share on the internet, lol.

I may add this relevant info: in the above video he verbally made this comment "so far all M series Macs are already proven to have the capability to upgrade SSDs, our shop has done probably more than a thousand Macs up to this point".

Before watching the M2 Max Studio video I was fully expecting a 2nd daughter card to appear, but he chose to just solder on the 1st one instead, which is tale-telling in the difficulty in trying to get the 2nd card (coded 01). With a maximum of 1TB per NAND, just using one card can already get your 4TB already so I suspect there is close to no market for making a 8TB config happen, especially if someone brings in a base machine with just one card.

I don't think Apple ships a configuration with only a single NAND board with 4TB, so it might not even boot because of the firmware.

 

[Chancha]

The Chinese guy just now posted this, doing 8TB upgrade on two M3 Max. There are difficulty in finding the right capacitors on the empty pads but he managed.

 

[ChrisA]

Cheap skill labor with cheap available parts and cheaper overhead are plentiful there.

You don't need low-cost labor to make this economical. Let's say a skilled electronics tech in California makes $100 per hour after overhead. It takes about 30 minutes to swap the chip and another 15 to do the billing and interact with the customer. So $75 in labor plus $100 in parts to do an upgrade that Apple charges $800 for.

It will absolutely make sense to do the upgrade after the SSD dies some years from now after the computer is out of warranty.

Yes hand soldering BGA is a skill that takes a long time to learn but there are many profesional techs who can do this here in California.

 

[H2SO4]

Who the hell is realistically going to do this?

You’d spend more money on the proper tools and the potential of destroying the device than if you just bought the damn config you need in the first place.

Someone like Rossman may see an avenue for business here?

 

[ChrisA]

I'm a bit confused. On the Studio, where the chips are slotted, the SSD controllers are on-die, so those slotted chips are just raw NAND. So what's going on with the Mini? Isn't its SSD controller on-die as well? If so, what you'd need for the upgrade wouldn't be simply an aftermarket SSD, but raw NAND without the controller.

It "works because the controller on the SOC queries the NAND chips and basically asks it "Tell me about yourself" and it does. This is how RAM works too. The same applies to mechanical spinning disk drives.

 

[theorist9]

It "works because the controller on the SOC queries the NAND chips and basically asks it "Tell me about yourself" and it does. This is how RAM works too. The same applies to mechanical spinning disk drives.

I'm afraid you misunderstood my question. I was asking how this could work in tems of the parts that would need to be sourced, since these slotted parts aren't stanardard SSD's, but Apple-proprietary controller-less NAND. mr_roboto already answered it above:

Apple does use "special" parts, you can't buy them in volume if you aren't Apple. People doing these swaps are able to because at Apple's volumes, a few parts will escape Apple's supply chain here and there. Another frequent thing is that people scrap broken Macs and iPhones, remove the flash, and sell it through Ali Express.

 

[theorist9]

It will absolutely make sense to do the upgrade after the SSD dies some years from now after the computer is out of warranty.

Yes, and it could also make sense to do such RAM/SSD upgrades years from now even if the computer is still working, and the only thing needed to maintain its usefulness is more RAM and/or SSD.

But I'll add, separately, that it doesn't make sense to do it to a new device just to make a high-spec model financially accessible (say you need, but can't afford, 128 GB RAM and/or a 4–8 TB SSD). In that case, you're much better off getting a used high-spec model that's still under AC+.

 

[Chancha]

Yes, and it could also make sense to do such RAM/SSD upgrades years from now even if the computer is still working, and the only thing needed to maintain its usefulness is more RAM and/or SSD.

But I'll add, separately, that it doesn't make sense to do it to a new device just to make a high-spec model financially accessible (say you need, but can't afford, 128 GB RAM and/or a 4–8 TB SSD). In that case, you're much better off getting a used high-spec model that's still under AC+.

With 8TB I think it makes financial sense. The video above showed exactly that, the guy said a customer sent him a BTO of 128GB RAM but with just 512GB SSD, so the customer already had using this service in mind when choosing the config at Apple. We do not know how much this guy charges, but looking at Apple's 8TB BTO price there is just so much room for someone to make a profit while still keeping the price enticing. And the video shows us the technician is skilled and resourceful enough to get the machine to a condition as close to Apple original as possible.

With RAM upgrades though, the proximity of the DRAM modules to the SoC, the amount of care and risk involved may be another story.

 

[aj_niner]

With 8TB I think it makes financial sense. The video above showed exactly that, the guy said a customer sent him a BTO of 128GB RAM but with just 512GB SSD, so the customer already had using this service in mind when choosing the config at Apple. We do not know how much this guy charges, but looking at Apple's 8TB BTO price there is just so much room for someone to make a profit while still keeping the price enticing. And the video shows us the technician is skilled and resourceful enough to get the machine to a condition as close to Apple original as possible.

With RAM upgrades though, the proximity of the DRAM modules to the SoC, the amount of care and risk involved may be another story.

If I'll do this I'd have the 3rd party soldering person max out RAM & SSD. This would be good until December 2033.

 

[MBAir2010]

I get where your heart is, but unless you’ve done this kind of work before I think it would be a mistake to do it.

Yes,
Even veteran tech guru Colin "dosdude" practices on several bad chips and old logic boards
several time before using a clients actual one.

my last experiment and project consisting of upgrading was on a 2012 Mac mini last march
as the fan slot fell off the logic board and now is in the recycling center.

the risk of destroying a great computer just for more size or speed is not worth the efforts.

 

[Eriamjh1138@DAN]

More YouTube clickbait drivel from a usual suspect, Luke. Not really practical for most people to attempt.

Luke didn't do the upgrade. He went to @dosdude1, a very skilled, highly intelligent Mac enthusiast. He's a frequenter of these forums and deserves a lot of respect and awe for what he has accomplished. Luke Miani... is entertaining at least.

 

[dosdude1]

Luke didn't do the upgrade. He went to @dosdude1, a very skilled, highly intelligent Mac enthusiast. He's a frequenter of these forums and deserves a lot of respect and awe for what he has accomplished. Luke Miani... is entertaining at least.

Having done quite a few of these upgrades now, I have found a good source of new NANDs that have worked every single time. Since that initial upgrade I did for Luke in that video, I’ve never had a single one cause me an issue... Just replace the NANDs, DFU restore, and done. The NANDs I use cost just under $100 for 2TB, which definitely makes it well worth doing, even with the $200 in labor I normally charge when people send me these to upgrade.

 

[dosdude1]

With 8TB I think it makes financial sense. The video above showed exactly that, the guy said a customer sent him a BTO of 128GB RAM but with just 512GB SSD, so the customer already had using this service in mind when choosing the config at Apple. We do not know how much this guy charges, but looking at Apple's 8TB BTO price there is just so much room for someone to make a profit while still keeping the price enticing. And the video shows us the technician is skilled and resourceful enough to get the machine to a condition as close to Apple original as possible.

With RAM upgrades though, the proximity of the DRAM modules to the SoC, the amount of care and risk involved may be another story.

From my initial analysis, unfortunately I don’t think upgrading the RAM on Apple Silicon SOCs will be possible. Not because of the difficulty of replacing the chips, but rather due to the fact that I THINK the memory config data (similar to SPD data on x86 systems) is fused into the SOC (meaning a one-time-write), and cannot be changed. Also, the RAM chips used on these are a custom package designed by Apple, and the necessary chips cannot be purchased anywhere outside of taking them off another SOC (that I’ve been able to find, at least). Which, of course I fully intend to do at some point just so I can test my theory about the fused config data.

 

[magbarn]

Having done quite a few of these upgrades now, I have found a good source of new NANDs that have worked every single time. Since that initial upgrade I did for Luke in that video, I’ve never had a single one cause me an issue... Just replace the NANDs, DFU restore, and done. The NANDs I use cost just under $100 for 2TB, which definitely makes it well worth doing, even with the $200 in labor I normally charge when people send me these to upgrade.

Have you've been able to find a source for the 8gb chips? That would be the most cost effective upgrade and wouldn't have to worry about storage for a long time.

 

[dosdude1]

Have you've been able to find a source for the 8gb chips? That would be the most cost effective upgrade and wouldn't have to worry about storage for a long time.

8TB you mean? Yes, that upgrade can be done on the M1 Pro/Max machines that have support for 8 NANDs, with these same 1TB NAND chips I use. Only tricky part there is you also have to re-install a bunch of passive components (resistors, capacitors, etc) for the chips that were initially omitted from the factory on the 2TB and lower configs. Not a huge issue, just a bit more work, as it’s about 40 components per omitted chip.

 

[Chancha]

From my initial analysis, unfortunately I don’t think upgrading the RAM on Apple Silicon SOCs will be possible. Not because of the difficulty of replacing the chips, but rather due to the fact that I THINK the memory config data (similar to SPD data on x86 systems) is fused into the SOC (meaning a one-time-write), and cannot be changed. Also, the RAM chips used on these are a custom package designed by Apple, and the necessary chips cannot be purchased anywhere outside of taking them off another SOC (that I’ve been able to find, at least). Which, of course I fully intend to do at some point just so I can test my theory about the fused config data.

I don't think I have seen anyone successfully upgrading RAM on any Apple Silicon Macs, at least not in a video or something that's verifiable. In the 2012-2020 era of Intel Macs this had been done many times, but it got increasingly non-trivial since the T2 chip presence. With Apple Silicon it seems they doubled down on serializing DRAM parts.

But frankly there is even less of an incentive for RAM upgrades, the difficulty just adds to it. Normally people with high memory needs probably wouldn't cheap out with their initial purchase, and then Apple's BTO asking price is not as ridiculous as their SSD offerings comparatively speaking. Also unlike NANDs, the DRAMs don't wear out its lifespan as much.