So with the new iPad, there are no more M1 based machines currently in production. So which the next Mx processor line to be fully retired: M2 or M3.
I’m confident to predict it won’t be the M4.
I’m confident to predict it won’t be the M4.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
M2 or M3, who is next to go?
- Thread starter Chuckeee
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
M2 is in the new ipad air
Apple wants to get rid of m3 n3b since tsmc is building that just for apple and cost way too much
M2 and m4 are way cheaper and others will jump on the new n3e architecture
Apple wants to get rid of m3 n3b since tsmc is building that just for apple and cost way too much
M2 and m4 are way cheaper and others will jump on the new n3e architecture
Intel will reportedly be using N3B for Lunar Lake and likely Arrow Lake too. Presumably Apple is eating up N3E capacity. Also … while it’s true that N3B was delayed and reportedly suffers from poorer yields than expected and so forth, I think people are going a little overboard on how “bad” it is. It’s still finding customers and likely will continue to do so.
People are throwing around words like "flawed" when referring to N3B and M3. It isn't flawed at all. The chips aren't broken, they aren't faulty. N3B is just not cost effective, for Apple. That's it. Too many layers and low yields.
Given that N3B is not just in the M3 (which is in Apple's best selling Mac, the MBA) but also the A17Pro which is in one of the best selling phones on the planet I think this narrative is kind of silly ... if N3B was so bad that it was not cost effective they wouldn't have dared put it in a product that would sell in the quantities the MacBook Air and iPhone do.
OK, maybe "costs more, and eats into Timmy's margins too much" is more accurate. The point being it's not a technical fault, more an economic one.
M2 is in the Vision Pro and there’s no upgrade or replacement on the horizon so it will probably be around for a long time.
I believe the M3 will be retired first as M2 is far cheaper to manufacture than M3. This allows Apple to offer lower prices on M2 product while likely seeing better margins than M3 product.
Last edited:
yup, my bet is it is m3 on the block due to the above.
Sometimes things aren't retired due to performance - there are other factors involved. M4 is cheaper to produce and faster so...
You have confirmation of this? Because everyone else seems pretty convinced that they are ... at least as convinced as one can be this far out and without the products in hand ...
====
At any rate, the M2 might continue on until the low volume Vision Pro gets an update, but when the M4 Air drops, the M3 Air will probably replace the M2 Air as the cheaper model ... unless you guys think that they'll just keep selling the M2 Air? Again I think you guys are vastly inflating the problem here. If the yields were so bad do you really think that Apple wouldn't have skipped the M3 Airs entirely? Don't get me wrong, yields were reportedly down and N3E exists, they didn't put the A17 into the non-pro iPhones, but ... again ... what started as a kernel of truth seems to have been blown way out of proportion. We don't even know what the rate of M4 products will be yet.
Last edited:
whos everyone else? leakers?
N3E arhitecture is the future generations,N3B is stuck, not compatible with anything else. Intel cannot afford to opt for N3E , they are not Apple, they dont have the "iphone" profit margins/sells
Leakers ... and the tech press reporting on Gelsinger's comments ... albeit machine translated from a Chinese News Source:
Intel CEO Confirms TSMC's Process Nodes To Power Next-Gen CPUs: N3 For Arrow Lake & N3B For Lunar Lake
Intel CEO confirms the use of TSMC N3 process node for next-gen Arrow Lake & N3B node for its Lunar Lake CPUs launching later this year.
wccftech.com
Possibly things got misconstrued or lost in translation, but combined with leaks from last year, which were pretty substantive, that's the best evidence we have for what node Intel plans to use. Could be wrong of course, but ... unless you have a better line evidence, that seems the most likely no?
People have to use what's available ... it's likely that N3B has greater volume available than N3E given that Apple has moved to N3E, the iPhones alone take up massive volume, ... and the cost to moving to whatever node comes next will be the same as moving to a new node especially given Intel's reported cadence. Intel's next generations after Arrow/Lunar are going to be another year later, Q1 2026 at the earliest, given what we saw from Dell's leaked roadmap. By that point, they might be designing for N2 anyway ... if Apple isn't taking it all of that up too.
Massive Dell blunder leaks Intel and Nvidia's mobile roadmaps — Nova Lake, Panther Lake CPUs and GENxx Nvidia GPUs listed
Huge roadmap update showing four generations of future Intel CPUs
Sure N3E is better than N3B, everyone agrees, but fabs are massively expensive to build they don't just get shut down and N3B is still usable as evidenced by the fact that it is being used. TSMC's N3B is not like Intel's 10nm, nor is the M3 Cannon Lake:
Intel's biggest failure pops up on a Pokemon-emblazoned motherboard — 10nm Cannon Lake rides in style on a custom Meowth board
Cannon Lake says hi from the past.
Last edited:
Nothing has been lost in translation. The CEO of Intel gave a scoop about TSMC to a journalist from the one of the largest and most respected newspapers in Taiwan (not China), in English, at a conference in San Jose, California.Leakers ... and the tech press reporting on Gelsinger's comments ... albeit machine translated from a Chinese News Source:
Intel CEO Confirms TSMC's Process Nodes To Power Next-Gen CPUs: N3 For Arrow Lake & N3B For Lunar Lake
Intel CEO confirms the use of TSMC N3 process node for next-gen Arrow Lake & N3B node for its Lunar Lake CPUs launching later this year.
Possibly things got misconstrued or lost in translation, but combined with leaks from last year, which were pretty substantive, that's the best evidence we have for what node Intel plans to use. Could be wrong of course, but ... unless you have a better line evidence, that seems the most likely no?
It wasn’t accidental or spur-of-the-moment, it was a diplomatic move by Intel. The journalist was hand-picked. There is no reason to doubt its veracity.
[Edit to add that Gelsinger was undoubtedly vague on the details, and odd things like the use of both “N3” and “N3B” (which are the same thing) probably come from Gelsinger himself. The journalist is just being accurate about what was said. The scoop was that TSMC is processing 3nm silicon for Arrow Lake and Lunar Lake. That is not in doubt. Anything else he said, about GPUs or whatever, would have been purposely vague.]
Last edited:
On the OP’s original question, I think M2, due to the GPU advances in M3. There will be graphics that only run to full effect on A17/M3 or better, which means M2 will be left behind first.
Cheers. Without speaking the language, I didn't want to presume the auto-translation of the original story was exactly accurate especially because of the usage of both N3 and N3B.
Yup, very much so.
Thing is though, why would apple build M3s to replace the M2 when the M4 is cheaper to make and better?
Because for the last two generations, Apple has sold the previous generation of MB Airs alongside the new one - e.g. Apple still sells the base M2 Air despite the M3 Air existing and previously Apple still sold M1 Air despite the M2 Air existing. When the M4 Air appears are you suggesting that they'll continue to sell the M2 Air instead of the M3 Air or that they will discontinue the practice of selling the last generation model Air? Possible I suppose, but seems very unlikely and built upon a cascading assumptions that may have started out reasonable but whose end result may be quite exaggerated.
And to reinforce my point about the graphics watershed introduced with M3, consider this sentence from the news release introducing the M4: "The new 10-core GPU of M4 builds upon the next-generation graphics architecture of the M3 family of chips."
I read that as Apple going (slightly) out of their way to associate M3 and M4 together, as an advance over M1 and M2.
Taking in consideration they released Vision Pro which is a brand new product line with the M2, I'd say they would cut support on M1 faster than on M2 with that alone in mind.
Regarding production it will depend on the M2 MacBook Air and the M2 Vision Pro (which would not need a lot of production tbh)
Regarding production it will depend on the M2 MacBook Air and the M2 Vision Pro (which would not need a lot of production tbh)
I just do not see M3/A17 sticking around for long due to the higher production cost, which hurts margins (and Apple loves maximum margin).
As such, I think M2 will outlive it and probably M1, as well, in select items since Tim loves to keep older product around to lower the price barrier to entry.
As such, I think M2 will outlive it and probably M1, as well, in select items since Tim loves to keep older product around to lower the price barrier to entry.
M1 Macbook Air is still being produced if I understand the Walmart deal correctly. It’s just not in the polished official line-up. And if so this wouldn’t be the first time. Some 2017 iPad Pros sold by third parties have a production date set after its discontinuation.
Yes there are M3 MBAs and Air is a high volume Mac, but really I’d expect the cheaper M2 Air to remain the mass-seller for now. If the 5nm production of M2 is comparatively cheap it’d imaginable seeing the M3 MBA model getting replaced and the M2 staying around for longer.
I’d expect support for M1 and M2 going away simultaneously some day, probably not soon, when Apple stops maintaining for their seemingly similar graphics architecture.
edit: walmart not best buy
Yes there are M3 MBAs and Air is a high volume Mac, but really I’d expect the cheaper M2 Air to remain the mass-seller for now. If the 5nm production of M2 is comparatively cheap it’d imaginable seeing the M3 MBA model getting replaced and the M2 staying around for longer.
I’d expect support for M1 and M2 going away simultaneously some day, probably not soon, when Apple stops maintaining for their seemingly similar graphics architecture.
edit: walmart not best buy
Last edited:
Are you sure? I thought it was NOS, the remnants from the previous M1 MBA production. And that was why only limited configuration. And was the reason no M1 BTO configuration were available.
It's not good that Intel also is depending on Taiwan based company. The US presidential elections in November, and anything can happen. The Chinese "reunification" is still on the table. Why no company in part of the world outside China (or Taiwan) can make that kind of chip?